Blue berets questions

[Slim]

Everybody knows there is an endless debate as to whether or not the minutes are worth anything. Some will argue that the decision is regulatory as soon as it's made by the NB, which means that we can wear the beret. Others will argue that the decision needs to be put into written form, and that we can't wear the beret until there is either a new regulation or update letter released permitting that.

Not to mention a trivial little thing like getting the Air Force, who has control over the AF style uniforms and what is worn with/on them, to approve it first. 

I was certain that one of the ICLs contained a statement that the beret and Hawk ranger tabs were pending Air Force approval, but that they were approved for wear on the blue BDU (as that one isn't subject to AF scrutiny).  I'll be darned if I could find it yesterday when I looked for it though.

[Eclipse]

Everybody knows there is an endless debate as to whether or not the minutes are worth anything. Some will argue that the decision is regulatory as soon as it's made by the NB, which means that we can wear the beret. Others will argue that the decision needs to be put into written form, and that we can't wear the beret until there is either a new regulation or update letter released permitting that.

Not to mention a trivial little thing like getting the Air Force, who has control over the AF style uniforms and what is worn with/on them, to approve it first. 

I was certain that one of the ICLs contained a statement that the beret and Hawk ranger tabs were pending Air Force approval, but that they were approved for wear on the blue BDU (as that one isn't subject to AF scrutiny).  I'll be darned if I could find it yesterday when I looked for it though.

Correct, its in the KB notes as well.

The only place the beret can be worn over the camos is NBB.

[Dracosbane]

While I don't know where it's stated now, but I knew at one point that the wear of beret flashes were only dictated by the fact that they couldn't be currently used by military units.  We used to wear flashes, and just before I was "awarded" my beret (made the team) they got rid of the three that had been used for a while because, it seems, someone realized that they were current military flashes. 

I'd always considered that someone should have come up with a CAP specific flash as the beret always looked a little bare after having seen everyone wearing them for so long.  I guess that never came about.

[ES Ninja]

Semi On Topic:

I attended the Oshkosh Airshow as a participant several years ago (Boom Operator on a KC-10 that was on display and was also supporting the SR-71 on display).

Here's my question. I attended the entire airshow (couldn't leave if I wanted to), and I was a current member of CAP at the time. Am I entitled to wear the Blue Beret?

Looking at the requirements given to "earn" the beret, it's a toss up. So what do you guys think?
And please, do not reply if you have not attended NBB.

I attended NBB last year as Delta flight commander. Allow me to answer your question by quoting the resolution passed at the 2006 CAP National Board (you can find the minutes on CAP Knowledgebase by searching "beret"):
"All members that attend the Blue Beret and national Hawk Mountain training can wear any awarded items that go on the uniform or the head gear with their BDUs, blue or green.
MOTION CARRIED
FOLLOW-ON ACTION: National Headquarters implementation of policy, notification to the field and change to appropriate CAP regulations." (note that CAPM 39-1 hasn't been updated since 2005)

To answer your question, PHall, no, you could not, because you did not attend the Blue Beret training, and were not awarded the head gear.

As for the NBB 'tude problem, I'll admit, it can be an issue. Why? First off, let me state that I've noticed CAP cadets in general have more self confidence than the majority of our peers. We know we are successful at life. We volunteer our time doing something worthwhile. Some of us have done SAR missions, found downed aircraft, and/or saved lives. We know how to carry ourselves with professionalism, we know how to stay motivated, we know how to persevere or sacrifice personal comfort for the sake of a mission. We aren't your average teenager, and we know it. Taken too far, however, that self confidence can easily come off as arrogance.

As per NBB, there's a feeling of camaraderie that is developed by working and living together 24/7 for two weeks at the airshow. You are doing something as a teen that most adults never do. You are partially responsible for ensuring the largest airshow in the world runs smoothly, that security is done well, that people don't get hurt, and that missing aircraft are located. It is tiring, mentally and physically. Its a big responsibility, and demands a lot of discipline. The St. Alban's pin is the symbol of that volunteer work; volunteering that time to help others, doing that security shift on the flight line in pouring rain at 0300 hrs. The beret is just a piece of felt, but people know what it stands for. You can look across a field of cadets and pick out NBB graduates, and know they have that similar experience, that common ground, with you. And you know you can rely on them in a tough spot, because you've both been there before, and passed.

The beret itself is not the special thing; its what it signifies. Cadets who don't understand that, shouldn't be berets. And cadets that do, should not give trouble with their attitude. Important to remember is that the beret is awarded at NBB, but thereafter cadets must continue demonstrating the NBB pledge in order to keep it - yes, a NBB graduate can lose their beret at any time. This is our creed; this is what we had to exemplify to earn our beret, and this is what we must continue to exemplify, to continue wearing it.

I am a Blue Beret. I am my country and Civil Air Patrol expect me to be: the best of American youth, and an example of leadership for today and the future.
Never will I fail that trust.
Therefore, I pledge to perform to the highest degree of professionalism. My dedication to the service of others, rendered with respect and humility, is the outward sign of this pledge.
I am a leader who exhibits the highest level of integrity and am dedicated to the well being of my comrades and community.
I understand that to wear a Blue Beret is a great honor.
Therefore, I forsake not:
My Country;
My Mission;
My Comrades;
My Duty.
I am a Blue Beret.
FOLLOW ME!

[elipod]

^^ Well said

[Flying Pig]

Semi On Topic:

I attended the Oshkosh Airshow as a participant several years ago (Boom Operator on a KC-10 that was on display and was also supporting the SR-71 on display).

Here's my question. I attended the entire airshow (couldn't leave if I wanted to), and I was a current member of CAP at the time. Am I entitled to wear the Blue Beret?

Looking at the requirements given to "earn" the beret, it's a toss up. So what do you guys think?
And please, do not reply if you have not attended NBB.

I attended NBB last year as Delta flight commander. Allow me to answer your question by quoting the resolution passed at the 2006 CAP National Board (you can find the minutes on CAP Knowledgebase by searching "beret"):
"All members that attend the Blue Beret and national Hawk Mountain training can wear any awarded items that go on the uniform or the head gear with their BDUs, blue or green.
MOTION CARRIED
FOLLOW-ON ACTION: National Headquarters implementation of policy, notification to the field and change to appropriate CAP regulations." (note that CAPM 39-1 hasn't been updated since 2005)

To answer your question, PHall, no, you could not, because you did not attend the Blue Beret training, and were not awarded the head gear.

As for the NBB 'tude problem, I'll admit, it can be an issue. Why? First off, let me state that I've noticed CAP cadets in general have more self confidence than the majority of our peers. We know we are successful at life. We volunteer our time doing something worthwhile. Some of us have done SAR missions, found downed aircraft, and/or saved lives. We know how to carry ourselves with professionalism, we know how to stay motivated, we know how to persevere or sacrifice personal comfort for the sake of a mission. We aren't your average teenager, and we know it. Taken too far, however, that self confidence can easily come off as arrogance.

As per NBB, there's a feeling of camaraderie that is developed by working and living together 24/7 for two weeks at the airshow. You are doing something as a teen that most adults never do. You are partially responsible for ensuring the largest airshow in the world runs smoothly, that security is done well, that people don't get hurt, and that missing aircraft are located. It is tiring, mentally and physically. Its a big responsibility, and demands a lot of discipline. The St. Alban's pin is the symbol of that volunteer work; volunteering that time to help others, doing that security shift on the flight line in pouring rain at 0300 hrs. The beret is just a piece of felt, but people know what it stands for. You can look across a field of cadets and pick out NBB graduates, and know they have that similar experience, that common ground, with you. And you know you can rely on them in a tough spot, because you've both been there before, and passed.

The beret itself is not the special thing; its what it signifies. Cadets who don't understand that, shouldn't be berets. And cadets that do, should not give trouble with their attitude. Important to remember is that the beret is awarded at NBB, but thereafter cadets must continue demonstrating the NBB pledge in order to keep it - yes, a NBB graduate can lose their beret at any time. This is our creed; this is what we had to exemplify to earn our beret, and this is what we must continue to exemplify, to continue wearing it.

I am a Blue Beret. I am my country and Civil Air Patrol expect me to be: the best of American youth, and an example of leadership for today and the future.
Never will I fail that trust.
Therefore, I pledge to perform to the highest degree of professionalism. My dedication to the service of others, rendered with respect and humility, is the outward sign of this pledge.
I am a leader who exhibits the highest level of integrity and am dedicated to the well being of my comrades and community.
I understand that to wear a Blue Beret is a great honor.
Therefore, I forsake not:
My Country;
My Mission;
My Comrades;
My Duty.
I am a Blue Beret.
FOLLOW ME!

In other words, PHall didnt pay his money.

[Nathan]

And you know you can rely on them in a tough spot, because you've both been there before, and passed.

Doesn't that argument generally work only if many people do not pass NBB?

The only people I recall being kicked out of NBB are people who committed gross misconduct violations. I cannot recall anyone who actually "failed" NBB, nor imagine how that would be possible. No one doubts that it's a pretty fatiguing job, but is it possible to "pass" something that nobody really fails? Is that really a measure of true distinction?

I'm not saying this to be combative, but rather to figure out where your justification is coming from. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your school. People who went to the most laid-back, easy school in CAP can still be proud of their participation. Why not just be proud at having attended the activity? Is there a need to try to justify that NBB participants went through something significantly more worthy of "specialness" than a graduate of any other activity?

NBB was nowhere near the most difficult activity I attended. I formed closer bonds with my flight from COS and my IACE group, and found a non-CAP survival school I attended to be more physically demanding. I'm proud that I was part of NBB, and content with the work I did there. But, based on my experience, it wasn't something that needs to be put on a pedestal. I always feel the need to check why members feel the need to isolate it from other activities, especially in defense of the beret wear.

And, just out of curiosity, are they still insisting that NBB participants be called "blue berets"? Argh. We are not hats...

[NCRblues]

And you know you can rely on them in a tough spot, because you've both been there before, and passed.

Doesn't that argument generally work only if many people do not pass NBB?

The only people I recall being kicked out of NBB are people who committed gross misconduct violations. I cannot recall anyone who actually "failed" NBB, nor imagine how that would be possible. No one doubts that it's a pretty fatiguing job, but is it possible to "pass" something that nobody really fails? Is that really a measure of true distinction?

I'm not saying this to be combative, but rather to figure out where your justification is coming from. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your school. People who went to the most laid-back, easy school in CAP can still be proud of their participation. Why not just be proud at having attended the activity? Is there a need to try to justify that NBB participants went through something significantly more worthy of "specialness" than a graduate of any other activity?

NBB was nowhere near the most difficult activity I attended. I formed closer bonds with my flight from COS and my IACE group, and found a non-CAP survival school I attended to be more physically demanding. I'm proud that I was part of NBB, and content with the work I did there. But, based on my experience, it wasn't something that needs to be put on a pedestal. I always feel the need to check why members feel the need to isolate it from other activities, especially in defense of the beret wear.

And, just out of curiosity, are they still insisting that NBB participants be called "blue berets"? Argh. We are not hats...

Well, there is a movement among some NBB folks that will not wear the beret (me included) other than one time. The only time I will wear mine is when the new attendees get their own. Other than that it goes back in my *cap stuff* box for next year.

If the cadets want to put HAWK, NBB, PJOC ext.. on a pedestal than so be it. As long as they do not have a "tude" about it than smile and nod and move on. If they pop a "tude" correct it. But at the same time as an adult we must remember, (insert activity here) may have been the hardest thing that kid cadet has done in life so far. So of course they are going to be proud.

When i TAC up at beret, i try my darnedest to make sure my flight understand that i do not tolerate the "tude" from anyone. There is no reason for it in anything CAP does.

NBB is probably one of the most rewarding activity's you can do as a cadet or SM, the amount of thanks and praise that the members receive up at Oshkosh is amazing. I have had pilots on the taxi way hold up signs that says "thank god for the CAP", others get there picture taken every year with the first cadet marshaller they see. CAP has become a tradition up at Airventure, not just inside CAP, but in the G.A. community as well. As such, IMHO of course, I want the members up at Oshkosh to hold themselves high and proud and look good for the general public. If giving out a blue french surrender kit, i mean beret, helps the cadets keep the pride that the public needs to see up there, than so be it.

[Zen Master Charlie]

So I just got back from NBB, and while I am proud of myself for completing it... I feel embarrased that a discussion/argument etc over this topic can carry on for so long, and I feel like I don't want to wear my beret anymore. Here is the time line for me:

-Signed up for Blue Beret for the fun of the activity (Thought my wing Commander didnt let us wear the berets anyway)
-Got back home and found out my Wing Commander does allow them, yeah, I was happy.
-Started reading through the debates behind this thing, and now I feel embarrassed and I'm not so excited to wear it anymore.

So my question for all of you, who have argued your points over and over again... Should I wear my beret and be labled as a pompass ass who is arrogant and stuck up, or should I hide my beret away and forget about it... Honestly I'd love to wear my beret, I am proud to say I have earned it based on the requirements provided by NBB, but I will not ever parade around bragging about it. Only explaining if asked. But if I'm going to be wrongly and negativley labled for wearing it, then I dont want to wear it... I'm very torn here.

A simple yes or no would be much appriciated.

[N Harmon]

Should I wear my beret and be labled as a pompass ass who is arrogant and stuck up, or should I hide my beret away and forget about it...

Sorry but your question can not be answered with a simple yes or no.  First, anyone who labels you based on your wearing an authorized uniform item, is not anyone you should concern yourself with. If you want to wear it, and it is allowed, then go for it.  Perhaps you can counter the arrogant stigma that so many associate with NBB.

Personally, I find the beret less comfortable than my squadron ball cap, so mine just collects dust.

[Майор Хаткевич]

In most cases, it's an issue of uniformity. Nothing like seeing a squadron picture with that ONE guy sticking out like a sore thumb. But if it's allowed and you wear it, so be it. The true test is when the unit commander says "all BDUs, all Patrol Caps". How you respond to that is what will form people's opinion about you.

[Irishrenegade]

I just got back from nbb as well and I will say if its approved for wear in your wing then go for it! you earned it! I wear mine when its not ridiculously hot out. Just make sure you represent it well because if people have that attitude about nbb people then there was someone who was a pompass ass who was arrogant and stuck up...like others have said...prove them that not all berets are like that.


just my opinion...take it how you want it.

[jeders]

So my question for all of you, who have argued your points over and over again... Should I wear my beret and be labled as a pompass ass who is arrogant and stuck up, or should I hide my beret away and forget about it... Honestly I'd love to wear my beret, I am proud to say I have earned it based on the requirements provided by NBB, but I will not ever parade around bragging about it. Only explaining if asked. But if I'm going to be wrongly and negativley labled for wearing it, then I dont want to wear it... I'm very torn here.

A simple yes or no would be much appriciated.

A simple yes or no is simply impossible to give. However, my attempt at such would be to say no and no.

I earned my beret in '08 and, since it is not authorized by 39-1 or any ICL thereto, it sits on display on a shelf in my room along with the patch and challenge coin. I bring it out to meetings on occasion, along with other items, when I give a presentation on NCSAs, and then it goes back on the shelf. So to answer your question, should you wear it, no because it's not currently authorized outside of NBB. Should you hide it and forget about it, absolutely not because you worked hard and earned it.

That's just my opinion. When I was a squadron commander I didn't let anyone at the squadron wear a beret from NBB nor did I allow cadets from other squadrons wear it when participating in activities with us. If your wing/group/squadron commanders all say that you can wear it, then it's your choice to wear it or not.

[Eclipse]

I earned my beret in '08 and, since it is not authorized by 39-1 or any ICL thereto, it sits on display on a shelf in my room along with the patch and challenge coin. I bring it out to meetings on occasion, along with other items, when I give a presentation on NCSAs, and then it goes back on the shelf. So to answer your question, should you wear it, no because it's not currently authorized outside of NBB. Should you hide it and forget about it, absolutely not because you worked hard and earned it.

Jeders, you're going to get one of the nice holiday cards this year!

ZMC - it is possible to be a pompous ass without a beret, and to wear a beret and not be one. 

The hat has nothing to do with the activity or the experience - the fact that we (CAP, Inc.,) has allowed what is otherwise a fun and worthwhile activity to become, for many, more about the hat then the function, shows the challenges we have in the leadership we purport to provide to young people.

My advice is to lead by example, sew on the NCSA patch, speak well of your experience, and leave the beret at home.

[Zen Master Charlie]

I just got back from nbb as well and I will say if its approved for wear in your wing then go for it! you earned it! I wear mine when its not ridiculously hot out. Just make sure you represent it well because if people have that attitude about nbb people then there was someone who was a pompass ass who was arrogant and stuck up...like others have said...prove them that not all berets are like that.


just my opinion...take it how you want it.

Hey... I know you!    Well, beret or not atleast my girlfriend doesnt own a VW bug... 

[Zen Master Charlie]

ZMC - it is possible to be a pompous ass without a beret, and to wear a beret and not be one. 

The hat has nothing to do with the activity or the experience - the fact that we (CAP, Inc.,) has allowed what is otherwise a fun and worthwhile activity to become, for many, more about the hat then the function, shows the challenges we have in the leadership we purport to provide to young people.

I 100% agree, In my opinion, if someone goes to NBB for the Beret, and comes back a jerk... something tells me they were a jerk before NBB anyway, or were going to be one, NBB or not. I think the beret doesnt bring on the jerk attitude, but rather brings it out because its always been there. 

[lordmonar]

So my question for all of you, who have argued your points over and over again... Should I wear my beret and be labled as a pompass ass who is arrogant and stuck up, or should I hide my beret away and forget about it... Honestly I'd love to wear my beret, I am proud to say I have earned it based on the requirements provided by NBB, but I will not ever parade around bragging about it. Only explaining if asked. But if I'm going to be wrongly and negativley labled for wearing it, then I dont want to wear it... I'm very torn here.

A simple yes or no would be much appriciated.

You should ask your squadron commander and do what he wants.

Don't worry about what we or anyone else says about wearing or not wear the beret.

[Zen Master Charlie]

So my question for all of you, who have argued your points over and over again... Should I wear my beret and be labled as a pompass ass who is arrogant and stuck up, or should I hide my beret away and forget about it... Honestly I'd love to wear my beret, I am proud to say I have earned it based on the requirements provided by NBB, but I will not ever parade around bragging about it. Only explaining if asked. But if I'm going to be wrongly and negativley labled for wearing it, then I dont want to wear it... I'm very torn here.

A simple yes or no would be much appriciated.

You should ask your squadron commander and do what he wants.

Don't worry about what we or anyone else says about wearing or not wear the beret.

We had a meeting last night and I decided not to wear it, but everyone including our Squadron CC asked why I wasnt wearing it... 

[Eclipse]

A simple "it's not authorized for wear outside NBB..." would have ended the conversation nicely.

[lordmonar]

A simple "it's not authorized for wear outside NBB..." would have ended the conversation nicely.

but that is not a true statement