Does anyone know if camp pendleton has decent showers? I am going to encampment and don't know what to do for showers. Please help!
1. Bring soap.
2. Bring a towel.
3. Bring shower shoes (flip flops)
4. Turn water on.
5. Stand under it.
6. Apply soap.
7. Rinse it off.
8. Turn water off.
9. Dry off.
*If you have enough hair, add shampoo to the list.
I'd bring a bathing suit and shower shoes regardless.
Last time I was at Camp Talega, the showers were communal in one of the Quonset huts, there are several sets.
http://www.cpp.usmc.mil/base/dpc/about%20talega.asp
Camp Talega was used extensively during the filming of Heartbreak Ridge, although the Marines, after seeing the work print, purportedly withdrew their support/association with it.
Quote from: MIKE on July 08, 2010, 07:34:23 PM
I'd bring a bathing suit and shower shoes regardless.
Hmm, why would they need a bathing suit for going into a shower? Should have a towel BUT it isn't like they aren't walking outside to take a shower. just walking in the dorm/barracks to the showers.
Surely in gym in high school they are taking communial showers anyways, or are we now paying for individual showers with doors etc??
RM
Quote from: MIKE on July 08, 2010, 07:34:23 PM
I'd bring a bathing suit and shower shoes regardless.
The cadets will be wearing their PT gear to and from the shower/latrine huts.
Shower shoes are recommended if you don't want to get athlete's foot.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 09, 2010, 12:28:40 AM
Quote from: MIKE on July 08, 2010, 07:34:23 PM
I'd bring a bathing suit and shower shoes regardless.
Hmm, why would they need a bathing suit for going into a shower? Should have a towel BUT it isn't like they aren't walking outside to take a shower. just walking in the dorm/barracks to the showers.
Surely in gym in high school they are taking communial showers anyways, or are we now paying for individual showers with doors etc??
RM
They are walking outside. The shower/latrine huts are separate from the Quonset huts they're staying in.
Dang, that's the way it was when I was on AD for Basic in 1979. Sounds like military is as far behind the times as CAP is.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 09, 2010, 12:28:40 AM
Surely in gym in high school they are taking communial showers anyways, or are we now paying for individual showers with doors etc??
Actually, its probably 50/50 - we encounter this every year and I have been repeatedly told that many high schools use their showers for storage due to actual and potential locker-room type "issues". Such are the times in which we live.
We also get at least one or two cadets every year who ask or try to take a shower in their bathing suit.
The Navy preaches and teaches water-conserving 3-minute showers.
1st minute - water on, get whole body wet.
2nd minute - water off, lather up whole body.
3rd minute - water on, rinse off, get out.
Its actually a very efficient, quick way to get clean...
Yeah, I failed to mention that the shower/latrines are indeed separate units, at the ends of the rows.
It's a bit old, but considering the history behind it, it's quite well kept up. Pretty cool. :)
Actually, I remember that now from Heartbreak Ridge.
Actually what I am going at is that I am not used to communial showers.
Quote from: CCAlex on July 09, 2010, 07:05:45 PM
Actually what I am going at is that I am not used to communial showers.
Well, here's your opportunity. I got my introduction at 11 when I started gym classes in Jr HS.
Quote from: PHall on July 09, 2010, 01:07:41 AMThe cadets will be wearing their PT gear to and from the shower/latrine huts.
Shower shoes are recommended if you don't want to get athlete's foot.
So is it policy that cadets be uniformed in "Initial Issue" in the Rain Room, or would a bathing suit be permitted for modesty?
Well, there is the part about .. when in Rome, do like the Romans do.
I've done it, there, at Camp Talega - I'm still here ;-)
I can't see a bathing suite being permitted, I'm not sure what the showers are like here but at my encampment we had open bay showers six people to a room( depending on how big you were) and staff standing around watching. Your in and your out. This goes for pt wear too until it's like freezing if they are walking outside to the showers. I would be prepaird and bring one just in case. But I would assume wrapping your towel around you too and from. Maybe get to change into clothes there ??
Most of the males cadets have been wearing bathing suits in the showers lately. I thought it was weird until I found out about senior members being suspended for weirder things at encampment. Privacy is privacy and cadets are entitled to same. There is a large difference in equipment between 12 year olds and 17 year olds.. We are not there to make anyone feel uncomfortable..
^ We are there to insure they maintain good hygiene. You simply answer they question unequviocably "no" and somehow they survive.
Let's think about it this way... Who really wants to tell c/Snuffy that he HAS to take off his bathing suit in the shower, ensure compliance, then deal with his parents later? Not I...
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 10, 2010, 12:50:09 PM
Let's think about it this way... Who really wants to tell c/Snuffy that he HAS to take off his bathing suit in the shower, ensure compliance, then deal with his parents later? Not I...
Want to? No.
Need to? Yes - uncomfortable conversations come with the cool business cards.
I've got to ask, Eclipse, how often do you have to deal with parents? I had one recently all but threaten violence against one of my cadet staff when he politely informed his daughter that her nameplate and ribbons were reversed on her uniform ahead of a parade. Apparently "talking that way" to a man's daughter is something to be done carefully, in his mind.
Seriously, if that is the level that sets parents off, I don't want to even think about justifying to one that we forced their uncomfortable son to go in front of all the other cadets (including ones potentially far older) completely in the buck.
There are a lot of areas I'm willing to pick my battles on with parents, but this just isn't one of them.
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 11, 2010, 02:41:24 AM
I've got to ask, Eclipse, how often do you have to deal with parents? I had one recently all but threaten violence against one of my cadet staff when he politely informed his daughter that her nameplate and ribbons were reversed on her uniform ahead of a parade. Apparently "talking that way" to a man's daughter is something to be done carefully, in his mind.
In addition to the units in my AOR, I generally have to deal with about 100 sets of parents a year for encampment. I've never had any issues, nor anyone who asked twice regarding the showers.
I would hazard a guess that at least part of it is a lack of familiarity and accessibility. Obviously we're not discussing showers for unit meetings, so things like this don't come up, generally, at the home squadron where people may feel more ownership and a comfort level with confrontation.
As to your example, that would generate a direct attitude adjustment conversation with the parent that included the potential for termination or transfer of the daughter if things didn't change.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2010, 02:54:10 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 11, 2010, 02:41:24 AM
I've got to ask, Eclipse, how often do you have to deal with parents? I had one recently all but threaten violence against one of my cadet staff when he politely informed his daughter that her nameplate and ribbons were reversed on her uniform ahead of a parade. Apparently "talking that way" to a man's daughter is something to be done carefully, in his mind.
In addition to the units in my AOR, I generally have to deal with about 100 sets of parents a year for encampment. I've never had any issues with parents, nor anyone who asked twice regarding the showers.
I would hazard a guess that at least part of it is a lack of familiarity and accessibility. Obviously we're not discussing showers for unit meetings, so things like this don't come up, generally, at the home squadron where people may feel more ownership and a comfort level with confrontation.
As to your example, that would generate a direct attitude adjustment conversation with the parent that included the potential for termination or transfer of the daughter if things didn't change.
When I said "deal with the parents," I meant actually dealing with them. If you are "dealing" with 100 sets parents a year for encampment, then you are doing something standard with them like applications or cadet drop off. You are not dealing with an irate parent. You are not dealing with a parent who feels their kid has been mistreated, or degraded.
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 11, 2010, 02:56:51 AM
When I said "deal with the parents," I meant actually dealing with them. If you are "dealing" with 100 sets parents a year for encampment, then you are doing something standard with them like applications or cadet drop off. You are not dealing with an irate parent. You are not dealing with a parent who feels their kid has been mistreated, or degraded.
Yes - actually "dealing with them", face-to-face, telephone, email, fax, carrier pigeon, and coconut wireless, including any number of conversations which involved multiple Wing CC's and NHQ legal.
We have to be flexible and sympathetic to unique situations, but parents and members don't dictate our program, and I certainly am
not going to let a parent or anyone else talk to me, staffers, or especially a cadet disrespectfully just to avoid an uncomfortable conversation.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2010, 03:14:47 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 11, 2010, 02:56:51 AM
When I said "deal with the parents," I meant actually dealing with them. If you are "dealing" with 100 sets parents a year for encampment, then you are doing something standard with them like applications or cadet drop off. You are not dealing with an irate parent. You are not dealing with a parent who feels their kid has been mistreated, or degraded.
Yes - actually "dealing with them", face-to-face, telephone, email, fax, carrier pigeon, and coconut wireless, including any number of conversations which involved multiple Wing CC's and NHQ legal.
We have to be flexible and sympathetic to unique situations, but parents and members don't dictate our program, and I certainly am
not going to let a parent or anyone else talk to me, staffers, or especially a cadet disrespectfully just to avoid an uncomfortable conversation.
Um, who said anything about letting parents talk to cadets, staffers, etc., disrespectfully to avoid an uncomfortable conversation? The only action about avoiding an uncomfortable situation was letting the 4'5" 12 year old wear a swim trunk because he's uncomfortable about showering naked with the 17 year olds. Isn't that about being flexible and sympathetic to a unique situation? How is that dictating our program? What part of the encampment objectives in CAPR 52-16 has "will shower in the nude in group showers?" I don't remember reading that as a program goal.
^ First you cite your own example about how touchy parents are about minor things, then you just make up an example of the extremes on the showering issue to make your point?
Flexibility is making accommodations for a member who has religious issues with communal showering, dressing, etc.
As a former Spaatz cadet I'm, sure you are familiar with the RST sessions that discuss using ORM to avoid the specific situations you are citing.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2010, 04:03:06 AM
^ First you cite your own example about how touchy parents are about minor things, then you just make up an example of the extremes on the showering issue to make your point?
I didn't "make anything up," I have cadets that size in my own squadron.
I used a real example to show the point that parents can be touchy, and how I'm not going to waste my time on a fight over swim trunks for a shy 12 year old. I didn't tell my cadet staffer he shouldn't have corrected the cadet's uniform, he was in the right, and I defended him to the parent. It was a fight I was willing to take, unlike a shy cadet who doesn't want to be exposed (literally) to a bunch of 17 year olds, in a way that does not serve the objectives of the program in question. Obviously wearing the uniform properly DOES serve the objectives of the cadet program, and is even in the cadet oath.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2010, 04:03:06 AMFlexibility is making accommodations for a member who has religious issues with communal showering, dressing, etc.
Why isn't it also being sympathetic to the little 12 year old?
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2010, 04:03:06 AMAs a former Spaatz cadet I'm, sure you are familiar with the RST sessions that discuss using ORM to avoid the specific situations you are citing.
Yeah, I am. One way in the shower case is to let the cadet wear swim trunks. Another way would be to not have 12 year olds shower with 17 year olds, but this might create logistical/time management problems that would not be created by letting the cadet wear swim trunks.
As for the "example I cited" (I assume you are referring to the uniform correction at the parade), it was mitigated by the fact that a senior member was present when the correction was made, no one-on-one situation, we had supervision, we knew the correction had not been overzealous in nature. It still didn't prevent the parent from getting irate, and in the end, in my squadron losing two cadets (the cadet whose uniform was corrected had a sibling in the program). Again, this was a fight I was willing to take on, since proper wear of the uniform is a key component of the cadet program.
Where is naked gang showers listed as a vital component of the cadet program? As a Spaatzen (there is no "former" >:D), I don't remember ever seeing it as a requirement of the program. If it is, then we've got a big problem some years of the Mass Wing Encampments, when we've been lucky enough to have individual shower stalls.
What
training objective is being served by the gang showers?
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 11, 2010, 04:42:33 AM
What training objective is being served by the gang showers?
These are simply the logistics of the activities and a fact of life for human beings as they get older. It is what it is, and what its
not is a big deal, for anyone, unless they choose to make it so on purpose.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2010, 04:55:53 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 11, 2010, 04:42:33 AM
What training objective is being served by the gang showers?
These are simply the logistics of the activities and a fact of life for human beings as they get older. It is what it is, and what its not is a big deal, for anyone.
So...no training objectives? No objectives that are getting hindered by them wearing swim trunks? Then what is the big deal about letting them wear them? Why is
this the line in the sand?
I'd rather put my line at making cadets do PT early in the morning. Something actually related to accomplishing the objectives of the encampment.
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 11, 2010, 05:02:19 AM
So...no training objectives? No objectives that are getting hindered by them wearing swim trunks? Then what is the big deal about letting them wear them? Why is this the line in the sand?
Hygiene? I don't know about you, but showering with swim trunks isn't the best way to wash the downstairs, especially after a day in uniform, most likely during the summer when all people sweat. Good way to begin to chafe too.
The alternative for the cadet who doesn't plan on being nude with several other cadets in a shower is that he/she will go without a shower, if not allowed to wear some sort of cover. As for washing their nether regions while in a swimsuit, I'm sure that their hands can reach inside with some soap and wash and rinse those parts, as needed.
Quote from: Cecil DP on July 11, 2010, 06:07:53 PM
The alternative for the cadet who doesn't plan on being nude with several other cadets in a shower is that he/she will go without a shower, if not allowed to wear some sort of cover.
This is not an option, and I can assure you, that for whatever reason, you guys are making 10x's more of this than anyone else, parents or cadets, ever has.
It is impossible to argue every nuance of "what if..." that can be brought up to simply prolong this conversation, or try and prove that "you can't tell me what to do...".
It is what it is, the venue dictates the situation, and somehow hundreds of cadets and millions of young people in this country seem to be able to cope with locker room environments without negative repercussions.
Ummm, wow.
I'm all for segregating the "adults" from the "kids" (pardon the term there).
That being said, its difficult, nigh unto impossible, to segregate the "kids from the kids." (again, pardon the term)
What next? "All thirteen year olds, line up for your showers. As the twelve year olds exit, please look up at the ceiling.."
Give me a break.
Mind you: I am in no way, shape or form a "nudist" or anything like that. Nor am I a prude. WIACS (when I was a cub scout) we went to the local high school's pool in the middle of the winter every year to swim. One of the requirements of that pool (as I later found out when I was in high school, too) was that you had to take a full-up shower, with soap, prior to putting on your bathing suit. (The school had the cleanest pool I'd ever had the pleasure to swim in, and in the 3 years I attended high school there, to my remembery we never had to close the pool for cleanliness issues, just failure of the water heater.)
I was, what, about 8? 9? I survived and, as far as I know, was not harmed in the process. Nor were my peers.
Now, in 1981, at my first encampment, we had communal showers that were adjacent to the barracks. Towel over shoulder, PT shorts on, walk to the shower, do your business, walk back to the barracks. There might have been 4-5 others showering at the same time. I was uncomfortable for about 30 seconds, and only that long because the flight sergeant started shouting about "hurry up!" and there was little/no time to be uncomfortable if you wanted to be clean.
Survived for many years with those kinds of arrangements. Cadets in the cadet barracks with cadet showers, seniors in the senior barracks with senior showers.
In the aftermath of the gulf war, we had to move our encampment around for 3 years, and 1993 was held at Camp Grayling, the Army National Guard post in Northern Michigan. While the latrines had communal showers, the worst thing was the toilets without stalls. I *never* got used to that. I was on the crapper one day doing my business when a cadet bombed into that latrine and it was just....weird. We scheduled showers such that the cadets and seniors were not taking showers at the same time, but its hard to schedule your Class II downloads, knowwhatImean? (*In the female latrine, one of the female seniors ran to the local lumber yard, got 1 x 1 and made rudimentary frames around each toilet which she then draped with spare bed linens...*)
Face it: 12 year olds and 17 year olds have the same basic equipment. So who cares?
(I will freely admit: After being in the Army about 6 months, I came home on leave enroute to my first duty station, and immediately jetted to Alpena to catch the encampment graduation. I hadn't transferred to senior membership yet, so when I checked in I was lodged in the senior barracks, but as a C/Lt Col. I grabbed my shower togs and ran off to take a quick shower in the senior showers, and while I'm showering one of the long-time encampment officers, a gentleman who'd been an encampment commander at least once during my tenure as a cadet, wandered in for a shower too. Now, I'd spent 6 months showering with other soldiers, so I sure didn't have an issue with other naked people in my AO, but this was a CAP Lt Col who I had a fair degree of respect for, and it just struck me as this odd, unexpected juxtaposition... Looking back on it 20+ years later, its just flat out goofy, and it wasn't uncomfortable, really, it was just ... odd...)
QuoteFace it: 12 year olds and 17 year olds have the same basic equipment. So who cares?
In the words of a speaker who came to my Junior High one time: You look at the guy next you in the locker room, and he has a carpet sample on his chest. Then you look at yourself and count the three hairs.
The only difference between myself at 12 and 17 and now 20 is the amount of hair. And even now, I have friends with the proverbial carpet, while I myself escape so far with only some belly hair and the carpet runway from the belly button down. While all my other Russian friends have the chest carpets, I don't feel like I'm more out of place without it, or feel like a lesser man, or feel awkward when we play soccer shirtless...
Quote from: NIN on July 12, 2010, 04:52:07 PM
... but its hard to schedule your Class II downloads, ...
In the belief that no nit is too small to pick, I do believe you meant
Class I, as I believe no personal modesty is required to unencumber oneself of Clothing, Individual Eqpt, Tools, Admin, etc (Class II).
v/r
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on July 12, 2010, 05:16:21 PM
The only difference between myself at 12 and 17 and now 20 is the amount of hair. And even now, I have friends with the proverbial carpet, while I myself escape so far with only some belly hair and the carpet runway from the belly button down. While all my other Russian friends have the chest carpets, I don't feel like I'm more out of place without it, or feel like a lesser man, or feel awkward when we play soccer shirtless...
Be glad. Otherwise, before you're 40 your nickname will be "Sasquatch."
Not a pretty sight.
Quote from: NIN on July 13, 2010, 08:50:06 PM
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on July 12, 2010, 05:16:21 PM
The only difference between myself at 12 and 17 and now 20 is the amount of hair. And even now, I have friends with the proverbial carpet, while I myself escape so far with only some belly hair and the carpet runway from the belly button down. While all my other Russian friends have the chest carpets, I don't feel like I'm more out of place without it, or feel like a lesser man, or feel awkward when we play soccer shirtless...
Be glad. Otherwise, before you're 40 your nickname will be "Sasquatch."
Not a pretty sight.
Glad I am. But that's my point. I've seen 14 year olds with more hair than me. Somehow I don't think showering with one of them would traumatize me.
The whole shower situation was something I was deeply concerned about going into my basic encampment. When I was 16 or so, I wouldn't even go in the pool unless I had a shirt on. I was, and still am, deeply self-conscious about my body. Perfect example would be HS gym class:
I went to a Catholic school that ran on a college-like semester system. Our gym class was split with health, and every other week we would have PE. My HS locker room had the standard box-shaped communal shower, with shower heads on all the walls. The gym teacher told us day one that showering was optional. Of the probably 30 guys in my PE class, one, maybe two, would shower. I personally wore my gym uniform under my school uniform (dress shirt, slacks, and tie) and then brought a change of shoes and left the school uniform/shoes in the locker during gym. I would then put on my school uniform after gym, right over top of the gym uniform. So, yes, I was so embarrassed/self-conscious about changing/being seen in underwear that I wore my gym clothes all day.
I had many a sleepless night counting down towards encampment. My worries were relieved when my barracks was a college dorm building, and the shower/latrine was shared between two individual dorm rooms with two beds each. So our shower situation was setup that enough time was given for all individuals in each of the dorm room "clusters" to shower, since the bathroom was a single person setup.
Even as an SM, should I be on encampment staff, I would still have issues with showering in the event that showers are communal. If I was a TAC officer for a flight at an encampment, and the cadet staff approached me with the issue that a cadet wants to stay in a bathing suit/underwear while showering, I would be more than supportive of that cadet in question. This isn't the RM folks, we can't traumatize cadets by ordering them to strip (that sends the CPPT bell ringing in my head) in the name of cleanliness. Everyone has issues with self-confidence or self-image. Some more than others. To push those people with these issues into a situation that makes them very uncomfortable, you risk losing them from the program, be it just leaving the encampment, or leaving the cadet program entirely.
So take it from someone who has never, and never plans, on taking a group shower in the nude: Let them be. Let them wear the bathing suit if they want. Let them wear underwear if they want. It's not as easy (frankly, more like impossible) for people like me to just drop trou and shower in front of a ton of other people.
all right we're done
Quote from: CCAlex on July 26, 2010, 03:34:14 AM
all right we're done
And nobody died from a heart attack or from fright because they had to endure an open shower room.
Next non-issue...
Quote from: PHall on July 26, 2010, 05:34:25 AM
Quote from: CCAlex on July 26, 2010, 03:34:14 AM
all right we're done
And nobody died from a heart attack or from fright because they had to endure an open shower room.
Next non-issue...
So the only way for it to be an issue is if they die from it? Gee, and here I thought we had stuff like a CISM program for ES personnel just exposed to things that leave psychological marks, but no physical ones. Guess we can can that if the standard is only dying.
Agreed, Cobra.. [sarcasm] And also, sir, we need to let the chaplains know their duties just became more limited and we have little need for them anymore- just basically for the Cadet Program with Character Development. [/sarcasm]
PHall, that was a little cold. For those of us who've never before had to take communal showers, that could be a bit of a shocker- or worse. IF the issue is covered, ground rules are set, and cadets are given the chance to ask questions (this could happen during a 15 minute briefing at encampment)- then I'd say at that point, the cadets are mature enough to come to encampment, the rules are clear, they've had a chance to ask questions- Good to go. Bathing suit or not, that's dependent upon whose running the show, I suppose.
Just because it wouldn't affect some people, that argument won't hold water for everyone, even if no one dies from it.
I'm 17, never had to do the communal showers- they aren't nearly as popular nowadays. So throwing Cadet Bagodonuts in the shower naked, with no idea how this crap works- bad idea. Do what I said above- should work out much much better.
And what about the white and gray shower uniform?
Ain't no thread like a uniform thread, cause a uniform thread gets locked! 8)
Quote from: DakRadz on July 26, 2010, 02:50:03 PM
Agreed, Cobra.. [sarcasm] And also, sir, we need to let the chaplains know their duties just became more limited and we have little need for them anymore- just basically for the Cadet Program with Character Development. [/sarcasm]
PHall, that was a little cold. For those of us who've never before had to take communal showers, that could be a bit of a shocker- or worse. IF the issue is covered, ground rules are set, and cadets are given the chance to ask questions (this could happen during a 15 minute briefing at encampment)- then I'd say at that point, the cadets are mature enough to come to encampment, the rules are clear, they've had a chance to ask questions- Good to go. Bathing suit or not, that's dependent upon whose running the show, I suppose.
Just because it wouldn't affect some people, that argument won't hold water for everyone, even if no one dies from it.
I'm 17, never had to do the communal showers- they aren't nearly as popular nowadays. So throwing Cadet Bagodonuts in the shower naked, with no idea how this crap works- bad idea. Do what I said above- should work out much much better.
Well lets see, I was at that Encampment. I got to monitor the shower situation every night and we simply didn't have any problems after the second night.
The cadets figured out this was the only way they were going to get clean and they rolled with it.
Quote from: PHall on July 26, 2010, 06:25:47 PM
Well lets see, I was at that Encampment. I got to monitor the shower situation every night and we simply didn't have any problems after the second night.
The cadets figured out this was the only way they were going to get clean and they rolled with it.
Y'know, Phil, its threads like this that keep reminding me of why I crossed over to the Foliage Green. :)
@PHall
I meant that this thread really isn't needed anymore and I kind of don't like the sarcasm that's going around here.
I thought it would be correct to do that because everybody types it that way
Quote from: CCAlex on July 26, 2010, 08:17:22 PM
I thought it would be correct to do that because everybody types it that way
No, Twitter users type that way. Why would you do that anywhere else?
Plus, if we argue about that for a few rounds, it'll kill this thread once and for all...
FACEBOOK, MAJOR!
:D Really really.
Quote from: DakRadz on July 26, 2010, 08:20:17 PM
FACEBOOK, MAJOR!
:D Really really.
GAH! My eyes! It burns!
we should try to stay on topic
The topic is dead/useless, didn't you say?
Might as well have a little fun before MIKE comes along swinging the Mod-Hammer ;)
CCAlex- This is the proper way to address someone on this board.
CCAlex, this will work as well.
CCAlex,
This too seems acceptable.
@CCAlex
Leave this in Twitter and Facebook. :D
OK, a couple of thoughts here before the Mike Strike.
The @ business - FB and Twitter do not allow quoting, so the @ is an alternate method for directing replies to specific individuals. On here, if you want to address a particular post, quote all or part of it, and respond.
Showers - I was thrust into that arena when I was 11 yo, in 7th grade PE. Being a year younger than my age peer group, and small in stature, I got a lot of crap, as is common in HS. Any anxiety I had about showering with 19 other guys went away after a few days. I guess today's kids are different.
YMMV.
Quote from: SarDragon on July 26, 2010, 08:45:57 PMAny anxiety I had about showering with 19 other guys went away after a few days. I guess today's kids are different.
YMMV.
Like I said, after the second night, no problems. Today's kids, when their "helicopter parents" aren't around, can adapt just as well as you and I did. They just need to get a chance to do it.
And peer pressure with the other members of their flight helped a lot too. >:D
Quote from: PHall on July 26, 2010, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on July 26, 2010, 08:45:57 PMAny anxiety I had about showering with 19 other guys went away after a few days. I guess today's kids are different.
YMMV.
Like I said, after the second night, no problems. Today's kids, when their "helicopter parents" aren't around, can adapt just as well as you and I did. They just need to get a chance to do it.
And peer pressure with the other members of their flight helped a lot too. >:D
You've seen examples in this thread of the "you" people not always adjusting. So that says to me that you're standard is "I did this, so everyone can be like me and do it." Thing is, especially on psychological development, it just doesn't work that way. Hell, the old leadership says, "recognize individual differences."
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 27, 2010, 06:06:02 AM
You've seen examples in this thread of the "you" people not always adjusting. So that says to me that you're standard is "I did this, so everyone can be like me and do it." Thing is, especially on psychological development, it just doesn't work that way. Hell, the old leadership says, "recognize individual differences."
Harry, I can't believe you even typed that with a straight face.
"Gee, Cadet Jones, I'm sorry you're always out of step and consequently turn a direction opposite of the other 20 cades during flank movements in drill. But, I should recognize your individual differences and tell you that's A-OK."
Look, this is a tempest in a tea pot. Where does it end? Private rooms for cadets who have never slept in open bay? Van rides for cadets who have never walked/marched more than a mile to a training site? Everybody gets a certificate, even the kid who couldn't conform to group norms and had to be sent home on Tuesday?
"Dear Parents & Guardians: I'm sorry we had to raise the cost of our encampment, but the local Army post that was only going to charge us $5/night per cadet has communal showers. We recognized that this might affect the delicate sensibilities of some of our more sheltered cadets, so we had to switch to the nearby college dorms with its 2 man rooms and shared bathrooms at $25/night per cadet... Oh, yeah, and their dining facility wants $3.50/meal... kinda sucks, I know. The good news is that if your son or daughter wants the "non-marching" encampment, we can still offer that for an extra $25. All the encampment goodness without any of the discomfort or potential blisters."
Quote from: NIN on July 27, 2010, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on July 27, 2010, 06:06:02 AM
You've seen examples in this thread of the "you" people not always adjusting. So that says to me that you're standard is "I did this, so everyone can be like me and do it." Thing is, especially on psychological development, it just doesn't work that way. Hell, the old leadership says, "recognize individual differences."
Harry, I can't believe you even typed that with a straight face.
"Gee, Cadet Jones, I'm sorry you're always out of step and consequently turn a direction opposite of the other 20 cades during flank movements in drill. But, I should recognize your individual differences and tell you that's A-OK."
Look, this is a tempest in a tea pot. Where does it end? Private rooms for cadets who have never slept in open bay? Van rides for cadets who have never walked/marched more than a mile to a training site? Everybody gets a certificate, even the kid who couldn't conform to group norms and had to be sent home on Tuesday?
"Dear Parents & Guardians: I'm sorry we had to raise the cost of our encampment, but the local Army post that was only going to charge us $5/night per cadet has communal showers. We recognized that this might affect the delicate sensibilities of some of our more sheltered cadets, so we had to switch to the nearby college dorms with its 2 man rooms and shared bathrooms at $25/night per cadet... Oh, yeah, and their dining facility wants $3.50/meal... kinda sucks, I know. The good news is that if your son or daughter wants the "non-marching" encampment, we can still offer that for an extra $25. All the encampment goodness without any of the discomfort or potential blisters."
We aren't talking about cadets marching out of step here. We're talking about psychological sexual development, hell, possibly even taunting based on those themes, and the simplest of all solutions that doesn't seem to effect training requirements in the least. Wearing some [darn] swim trunks. I get that we're in military facilities with these communal showers.
But heck, if you want to make it about the cadet who is having trouble marching in step, let's do that one. Do you simply treat them as everyone else, no individual training what so ever to get them up to speed? No mentoring? Just toss them back, and have their flight sergeant chew them out every time they're out of step? Of course not, you solve the problem, even if it means some extra and individualized training to get it done. Same as if you have a cadet who isn't shining their boots well. If the problem isn't simply a lack of discipline and will to get it done, but that they aren't understanding how to do it, you do the training to get it done, you don't just stand their yelling at them for it and acting like the problem is going to go away. Sometimes different problems require different tools from the toolbox. You yourself taught me that.
The attitude from PHall that I'm seeing here is "if it doesn't kill them, you're doing it right." My measure of "doing it right" is higher than "well everyone is still alive."
Quote from: PHall on July 26, 2010, 10:15:48 PM
And peer pressure with the other members of their flight helped a lot too. >:D
Depending on what this means, exactly (because the smiley face doesn't provide a big indicator), this could definitely set CPPT alarm bells off in my head if cadets are harassing other cadets about the showers deal.
Now, earlier on I wrote about how a 15 minute briefing letting everyone know that communal showers would be utilized and how things would work, any questions etc., would cover any problems which might arise, and address any that a cadet might have. If something is explained well and fairly, I've seen that even the younger, slightly scared I-won't-admit-I-miss-my-mom-but-I-do types are very receptive.
They covered showers at my encampment this year, and we had individual stalls. But they still laid down ground rules, so that no one could play dumb. It's not hard. And addressing a problem and providing a small forum for questions can work wonders to eliminate the need for things such as 3 pages of this bickering.
I speak from knowing my own reaction as well as my flight's reaction when these techniques were used on us. First-hand dooley knowledge.
Quote from: DakRadz on July 27, 2010, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: PHall on July 26, 2010, 10:15:48 PM
And peer pressure with the other members of their flight helped a lot too. >:D
Depending on what this means, exactly (because the smiley face doesn't provide a big indicator), this could definitely set CPPT alarm bells off in my head if cadets are harassing other cadets about the showers deal.
Now, earlier on I wrote about how a 15 minute briefing letting everyone know that communal showers would be utilized and how things would work, any questions etc., would cover any problems which might arise, and address any that a cadet might have. If something is explained well and fairly, I've seen that even the younger, slightly scared I-won't-admit-I-miss-my-mom-but-I-do types are very receptive.
They covered showers at my encampment this year, and we had individual stalls. But they still laid down ground rules, so that no one could play dumb. It's not hard. And addressing a problem and providing a small forum for questions can work wonders to eliminate the need for things such as 3 pages of this bickering.
I speak from knowing my own reaction as well as my flight's reaction when these techniques were used on us. First-hand dooley knowledge.
It means that nobody wants to have smelly flight mates.
I just went to encampment and showers are not that bad
Quote from: M777 on July 08, 2010, 07:16:25 PM
Does anyone know if camp pendleton has decent showers? I am going to encampment and don't know what to do for showers. Please help!
I was wondering the same thing...,
Whoa, talk about a dead thread revival...
"..was wondering the same thing..."
Well, that encampment happened already, if you were there, you got your answer. If not .. then.. unless they announce next years at that location, it's a moot point. But since there's ~40 other possibilities for encampment, at least, between now and then ...
Anyone know what showers are like at texas wing camp swift???
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on January 30, 2011, 01:08:36 AM
Anyone know what showers are like at texas wing camp swift???
Wet?
Quote from: cap235629 on January 30, 2011, 01:32:41 AM
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on January 30, 2011, 01:08:36 AM
Anyone know what showers are like at texas wing camp swift???
Wet?
I never would of guessed it! Just like every other shower in the world.
This thread simply refuses to die... >:D
Quote from: commando1 on February 10, 2011, 05:19:49 PM
This thread simply refuses to die... >:D
Well, you could have given it a fighting chance by not bumping it ;)
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on February 10, 2011, 05:21:21 PM
Well, you could have given it a fighting chance by not bumping it ;)
Point taken Mr. Spaceman! Now I'm just waiting for the almighty moderangers to arrive 8)
To be really honest, there is only one time since I became a senior member that cadet showering habits at encampment were anything I even was aware of. It happened at a cadet staff meeting where one female squadron commander who was stressed out and having some time management issues was complaining that the female cadets were taking too long in the shower. According to her calculations, every female should take 2 minutes, 37 seconds in the shower. Seriously. :o :o
If we really are going to make a serious attempt to resuscitate this topic... I have been to 2 encampments, one as a basic and one as staff. My first year we were given 3 1/2 minutes on the first day. We were so far behind that the next day we were allowed only 3 minutes. We were still so far behind that each day they gave us less time. By the last day we were lathering up while waiting using water from the sinks and only filing through the showers to rinse off-30 seconds. The year I went as staff I realized why 3 minute per person seemed like a luxury when we had to hurry up and wait on everything...literally. I think the question of modesty needs to be addressed but not sugarcoated. Yes you need to take a shower every day. No, we don't have individual shower stalls for you to use for privacy. Yes at some point in your life you will have to utilize a public shower...suck it up and move on... :P
When I was a cadet, we had communal showers at Vandenberg. I dont even recall it being an issue. By the time I got to the military taking a shower with 50 other people was a complete non-issue. After 8 years in the Infantry it doesnt even phase me.
If you have issues with your body I can guarantee they are YOUR issues. Not anyone elses. Of course, I know you cant just tell that to a kid. If your an adult, get over it.
Quote from: M777 on July 08, 2010, 07:16:25 PM
Does anyone know if camp pendleton has decent showers? I am going to encampment and don't know what to do for showers. Please help!
When I was there in 2001 as a basic, the showers were pretty good. Separate stalls rather than an open bay. I do not know, however, if that is still the case.
Please note though, when cleaning - don't mix ammonia and bleach... that would create a has-mat situation which is exactly what happened that year. That would be best avoided :)
Quote from: ol'fido on February 11, 2011, 01:02:28 AM
To be really honest, there is only one time since I became a senior member that cadet showering habits at encampment were anything I even was aware of. It happened at a cadet staff meeting where one female squadron commander who was stressed out and having some time management issues was complaining that the female cadets were taking too long in the shower. According to her calculations, every female should take 2 minutes, 37 seconds in the shower. Seriously. :o :o
:clap:
Wow... Someone has to much free time on their calculater.
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on February 25, 2011, 04:56:29 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on February 11, 2011, 01:02:28 AM
To be really honest, there is only one time since I became a senior member that cadet showering habits at encampment were anything I even was aware of. It happened at a cadet staff meeting where one female squadron commander who was stressed out and having some time management issues was complaining that the female cadets were taking too long in the shower. According to her calculations, every female should take 2 minutes, 37 seconds in the shower. Seriously. :o :o
:clap:
Wow... Someone has to much free time on their calculater.
And their calcusooner.
I can't believe this one is still going...
My high school had showers for gym, but we weren't required to use them, and no one did. Maybe because we'd get out 5 minutes before class is over, and then have 5 minutes in a large school (7-8min to get from two far points) to get to the next class.
Once I started going to the gym in my current residential building? I saw more below the belt in day one here than I did in 5 years of encampments with open bay showers. It didn't phase me, but was surprising because the showers were semi-central to the locker room. Overall I'd say CAP prepared me well, otherwise I'd end up like the phobic man who talked to me at the gym, claiming every naked gay was looking at HIM.
:)
Quote from: Stonewall on July 08, 2010, 07:33:33 PM
1. Bring soap.
2. Bring a towel.
3. Bring shower shoes (flip flops)
4. Turn water on.
5. Stand under it.
6. Apply soap.
7. Rinse it off.
8. Turn water off.
9. Dry off.
*If you have enough hair, add shampoo to the list.
very nice ;D
Wow. This thread goes on and on... In pendleton, it seems like the cadets at encampment like to shower with their underwear on. No one talks and if you don't have underwear to shower with, nobody says a thing. No pressure or anything, just how I like it. It's also wet, and you get out and dry yourself off like any other shower. The one bad thing about it, is that the changing area is the most disgusting hair covered 200 sq ft area you can find. Overall nothing special.
Could be worse.. you could have to use rocks, coral and a stream, and change after climbing over green slimy rocks to get out. ;-)
Oh yeah, reminds me of the old days...... charcoal soap. :o Those are the times where it scrubbed even when you didn't
It's where the marines train. I think they shower. At least they used to.
I am going to the AL/MS encampment 2011 the showers are open am i allowed to wear a swim suit?
Quote from: Chris35094 on June 05, 2011, 06:28:12 PM
I am going to the AL/MS encampment 2011 the showers are open am i allowed to wear a swim suit?
It's very hard to get clean when clothes (regardless of type) are in the way.
Yes but i cant really take a shower with people near me.
Quote from: Chris35094 on June 05, 2011, 06:34:07 PM
Yes but i cant really take a shower with people near me.
Here we go again!
Why is taking a shower with others in the room a problem?
Showering with other people nekked is one of those things that new cadets are usually scared about, but generally get over once they start actually doing it. Sure, you feel self-conscious, but you realize that pretty much everyone else is too. Once that confidence starts growing, it becomes less of an issue.
Ill remember that.
Quote from: Chris35094 on June 05, 2011, 08:37:49 PM
Ill remember that.
You need to consider what makes it uncomfortable. Everyone in the room is dressed the same. They have the same equipment. Look up, turn on the water, soap up, wash off, and move out.
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 05, 2011, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: Chris35094 on June 05, 2011, 08:37:49 PM
Ill remember that.
You need to consider what makes it uncomfortable. Everyone in the room is dressed the same. They have the same equipment. Look up, turn on the water, soap up, wash off, and move out.
Well put. End of story.
Yep
It's like the first day of high school gym class all over again. Just keep yer eyes up, shower fast. And remind yourself that most everybody is doing the same exact thing.
Quote from: titanII on June 06, 2011, 12:29:44 AM
It's like the first day of high school gym class all over again. Just keep yer eyes up, shower fast. And remind yourself that most everybody is doing the same exact thing.
Most High Schools use their showers for storage these days.
Imagine everyone else is in their underwear. Only in this case, everyone is. :P
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 07, 2011, 08:52:15 PM
Imagine everyone else is in their underwear. Only in this case, everyone is. :P
Not if the people in charge care about hygiene. It's been said before in this thread, but I'll say it again. Having cadets wear their underwear into the shower pretty much guarantees that the covered area won't be cleaned. Sacrificing a cadet's health in order to save them from facing their irrational fear is not appropriate.
Plus, with your flight staff yelling at you to get into the shower, I went from "wait, with THEM??" to "yes Chief!!" and diving in with the other 4 people. Trust me, you will be eager to (try to) please them, lol. Not only that, but the other members of your team are going through the same thing.
Quote from: DC on June 08, 2011, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 07, 2011, 08:52:15 PM
Imagine everyone else is in their underwear. Only in this case, everyone is. :P
Not if the people in charge care about hygiene. It's been said before in this thread, but I'll say it again. Having cadets wear their underwear into the shower pretty much guarantees that the covered area won't be cleaned. Sacrificing a cadet's health in order to save them from facing their irrational fear is not appropriate.
Im sorry, did you want to deal with the parents?
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 09, 2011, 07:48:06 PM
Im sorry, did you want to deal with the parents?
Yes. I'd rather explain to them why their child did something millions of others have done before them rather than explain crotch rot or something along those lines.
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 09, 2011, 07:48:06 PM
Im sorry, did you want to deal with the parents?
Deal with them, how?
Quote from: Eclipse on June 09, 2011, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 09, 2011, 07:48:06 PM
Im sorry, did you want to deal with the parents?
Deal with them, how?
Parents complain. Besides, if people are complaining about the TSA xray thingy, what makes you think they won't complain about this?
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 09, 2011, 08:44:35 PMParents complain. Besides, if people are complaining about the TSA xray thingy, what makes you think they won't complain about this?
People complain about a lot of things, then they are treated to reality and they get over it.
In ten years of communal showers, potties, and open bay barracks, I think the question came up 2 or 3 times, and in all cases resolved itself.
As mentioned above, eyes up, focus on the task at hand, move on with your life.
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 09, 2011, 08:44:35 PMParents complain. Besides, if people are complaining about the TSA xray thingy, what makes you think they won't complain about this?
Thank you for your imput Ma'am, Sir. We have open bay showeres, we have 30 minutes to get 40 cadets through those showers. Little Johnny is just going to have to grow up.
People are going to complain about any and everything. One of our jobs as leaders is to stand up to their complaints and press on.
CAP is a volunteer organisation. If Mr. and Mrs. Littlejohnny have a problem....then they can take their cadet home.
Quote from: lordmonar on June 10, 2011, 12:41:20 AM
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 09, 2011, 08:44:35 PMParents complain. Besides, if people are complaining about the TSA xray thingy, what makes you think they won't complain about this?
Thank you for your imput Ma'am, Sir. We have open bay showeres, we have 30 minutes to get 40 cadets through those showers. Little Johnny is just going to have to grow up.
People are going to complain about any and everything. One of our jobs as leaders is to stand up to their complaints and press on.
CAP is a volunteer organisation. If Mr. and Mrs. Littlejohnny have a problem....then they can take their cadet home.
While I was at encampment this past week (Got back this afternoon) I noticed about 2/5 cadets showered nude (I know this because there were five 'slots'). 3/5 cadets would have a problem with what your saying. Besides, the females and seniors get private showers here at Camp swift TX.
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on July 03, 2011, 12:58:32 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 10, 2011, 12:41:20 AM
Quote from: ElectricPenguin on June 09, 2011, 08:44:35 PMParents complain. Besides, if people are complaining about the TSA xray thingy, what makes you think they won't complain about this?
Thank you for your imput Ma'am, Sir. We have open bay showeres, we have 30 minutes to get 40 cadets through those showers. Little Johnny is just going to have to grow up.
People are going to complain about any and everything. One of our jobs as leaders is to stand up to their complaints and press on.
CAP is a volunteer organisation. If Mr. and Mrs. Littlejohnny have a problem....then they can take their cadet home.
While I was at encampment this past week (Got back this afternoon) I noticed about 2/5 cadets showered nude (I know this because there were five 'slots'). 3/5 cadets would have a problem with what your saying. Besides, the females and seniors get private showers here at Camp swift TX.
99/100 (probably more) would adapt and overcome if not given the option.
This thread is like the energizer bunny: and going and going and going and going
6 months later...
It won't die if people necro.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on January 16, 2012, 12:27:01 AM
It won't die if people necro.
should be called a "zombie" thread.. It lives beyond death.
The only difference between this thread and a zombie thread is that after two attempts to kill a zombie thread it dies.
It was dead, until you resurrected it.
Quote from: UpstateSAR on January 15, 2012, 08:53:36 PM
This thread is like the energizer bunny: and going and going and going and going
You think that this is a long one, view some of the longest ones, usually about uniforms. ;)