USAF force shaping & contractors

[mikeylikey]

Since we have a thread on the problem with CAP, heres one for the AF.  First let me say that force shaping http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123020821 is a great way to say, "thanks for your desire to serve your country, but the Air Force doesn't want you anymore, try the Army".  The Army will only take so many of these officers, and Reserve positions are getting difficult to find.  I just don't get it sometimes.  Two of my friends received notice that they will not be retained, one tried the Army who told him no, the other has tried finding a reserve slot in the AF and has had no luck.  This is absolutely ridiculous on the part of the Air Force.

[Al Sayre]

Something tells me that when the USAF figures out that they really needed to keep these people they are shedding left and right, and tries to recruit them back, they're going to get the old middle finger salute from a lot of former USAF members.

[Hammer]

I have no idea why the Air Force is cutting so many jobs.

[SKYKING607]

There's something more to this than we think.  Only 192 officers....hmmmmm...something's up guys.

[dwb]

I have no idea why the Air Force is cutting so many jobs.

That's an easy one: their budget is being cut.  The Army, including Reserve and Guard components, are carrying the most weight for the current deployments.  The Army needs more people, the Air Force needs less.

[Al Sayre]

True, but the USAF appears to have forgotten rule #1 of Leadership:

TAKE CARE OF YOUR PEOPLE!!!

You know, when you stop and think about it, Congress and the rest of the military hierarchy seem to have forgotten that rule also,  just look how they treat Veterans now as opposed to just after WWII...

[Hammer]

I have no idea why the Air Force is cutting so many jobs.

That's an easy one: their budget is being cut.  The Army, including Reserve and Guard components, are carrying the most weight for the current deployments.  The Army needs more people, the Air Force needs less.

If they cut their Contractors and used Air Force People in their place, that would help out on the budget.  I do not support the fact that Contractors make alot more money then the Military Personnel who do the same job.  It just is not fair..

[shorning]

If they cut their Contractors and used Air Force People in their place, that would help out on the budget.  I do not support the fact that Contractors make alot more money then the Military Personnel who do the same job.  It just is not fair..

Nope.  Doesn't work that way.  The AF doesn't pay the contractors.  They just pay for the contract.

[shorning]

First let me say that force shaping is a great way to say, "thanks for your desire to serve your country, but the Air Force doesn't want you anymore, try the Army". 

That's kind of a mischaracterization of the situation.  It's not a matter of the AF not wanting the people.  The AF and Navy been direct reduce the number of troops we have.  Because of a totally different mission, the Army still needs more people as long as we have boots on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan.  And the AF isn't just cutting officers.  They've cut enlisted billets too.  There goal is to get to a certain end-strength that has been mandated by DoD.  While the "Blue-to-Green" programs are options, not everyone will be accepted.

Think of it this way:  if the military has a (relatively) fix total number of troops, then the more the Army is allotted, the fewer the other services can have.  That's an over simplification of the problem, but it helps illustrate the issue.

If you think this is ugly, you should have been around for the RIFs of the early 90s!

[Cadet Bonnett]

Are members of CAP losing thier jobs.

[MIKE]

Are members of CAP losing thier jobs.

Some members of the National Headquarters staff did get let go earlier this year.

[Cadet Bonnett]

Are members of CAP losing thier jobs.

Some members of the National Headquarters staff did get let go earlier this year.

why

[MIKE]

Are members of CAP losing thier jobs.

Some members of the National Headquarters staff did get let go earlier this year.

why

Budget cuts.

[shorning]

Are members of CAP losing thier jobs.

This topic has nothing to do with CAP jobs.  We're talking about manpower in the Air Force.

[Hammer]

If they cut their Contractors and used Air Force People in their place, that would help out on the budget.  I do not support the fact that Contractors make alot more money then the Military Personnel who do the same job.  It just is not fair..

Nope.  Doesn't work that way.  The AF doesn't pay the contractors.  They just pay for the contract.

But they are paying the salary of the person who is the Contractor, right?

[shorning]

If they cut their Contractors and used Air Force People in their place, that would help out on the budget.  I do not support the fact that Contractors make alot more money then the Military Personnel who do the same job.  It just is not fair..

Nope.  Doesn't work that way.  The AF doesn't pay the contractors.  They just pay for the contract.

But they are paying the salary of the person who is the Contractor, right?

The AF isn't.  You misunderstand how "contractors" work.

[RAZOR]

The Contract with the Air Force when you enlist or become an officer has a little clause in it that says "we reserve the right to terminate your enlistment at the convience of the government".

[dwb]

If they cut their Contractors and used Air Force People in their place, that would help out on the budget.  I do not support the fact that Contractors make alot more money then the Military Personnel who do the same job.  It just is not fair..

Speaking as a contractor puke, allow me to say that in a lot of cases, they're not doing the same job as USAF personnel.  It's not as easy as just swapping military and contractor personnel.

It's easier for the military to contract out things that are not their core competencies, because it would cost them a lot more to grow that capability internally, if that were even possible.

[Hammer]

If they cut their Contractors and used Air Force People in their place, that would help out on the budget.  I do not support the fact that Contractors make alot more money then the Military Personnel who do the same job.  It just is not fair..

Speaking as a contractor puke, allow me to say that in a lot of cases, they're not doing the same job as USAF personnel.  It's not as easy as just swapping military and contractor personnel.

It's easier for the military to contract out things that are not their core competencies, because it would cost them a lot more to grow that capability internally, if that were even possible.

I just want to say that at USAFE/DO and USAFE/LG, they DID did do the same things.  I have nothing against Contractors, but when one is making more than an O-6 makes for doing less work, that's not right.

[dwb]

I'll assume that you are correct that it could be an even swap of military vs. civilian personnel (because sometimes, it is).

You have to separate salary from cost.  Although a contractor may be making a higher salary, you have to consider the cost of health care, paid time off, other benefits, housing, administration, issued equipment, insurance, etc. that the AF has to pay for its own people.

The total cost of outsourcing that function may be less to the AF than the cost of paying for a military officer (or enlisted) to serve in that billet.  Not just the salary cost, but the other personnel costs as well.

The company awarded the contract probably has less overhead costs, so it can pass that on to the employee in the form of salary.  Or, the contractor could be his own business (seen that before), in which case he's getting to keep what would normally go to corporate overhead/fee.

In any event, it's not simple.  While there are certainly cases of companies receiving favorable contracts that don't necessarily benefit the AF, in more cases, it is of financial advantage to the DoD, if for no other reason than the contract money is a different bucket than the operational funding.