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"Kids" vs Cadets

Started by Gunner C, November 25, 2008, 10:23:35 PM

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Gunner C

Quote from: RiverAux on November 18, 2007, 03:07:39 PM
From the Opelika-Auburn News: http://www.oanow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=OAN/MGArticle/OAN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173353542053&path=!news:
QuoteCivil Air Patrol members compete in local Iron Man Competition

William White  / Staff Writer
November 18, 2007

The second annual CAP Iron Man Competition lived up to its name Saturday for members from across Alabama and Mississippi.

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The U.S. Air Force connection to the Civil Air Patrol said these events give the cadets a chance to compete and have some fun.

"This is good for the kids," said U.S. Air Force Col. Russ Hodgkins. "This gives them a chance to compete in all the basic skills that they learn.



I almost fell off my chair when I read this.  WIWAC, referring to cadets as "kids" was something that was never done.  Kids were our age but we were cadets and we knew that it separated us from the crowd.  This is incredibly disrespectful to our cadets.  They are a cut above and should be treated that way.  When (then) CAP National Commander USAF Maj Gen Putnam visited our encampment, we were treated as members of the team.  When the cadet staff briefed him, he addressed us by our ranks, asked pertinent questions, and never patted us on the head like Hodgkins did above. Never in my cadet career was I or any of my fellow cadets addressed as KIDS.  I've never used that and I've always treated cadets with the respect that they deserve.  If anyone uses this moniker in my presence, they'll have hell to pay (in private).

I think this is another subtle way of finding out what the unsaid, behind the doors, attitude of big blue towards us is.

Taking a queue from CAP-USAF/CC:  Russie, you need to get a clue. 

Gunner

Flying Pig

Id say dont lose any sleep over it. Im sure the Colonel didnt mean anything by it.  And Im sure it doesnt have anything to do with how the "Big Blue" views us.  I think we Seniors take care of that image.

PaulR

#2
Quote from: Gunner C on November 25, 2008, 10:23:35 PM
Taking a queue from CAP-USAF/CC:  Russie, you need to get a clue. 

Gunner

WOW!!!   :o

You are talking about "Respect" yet you fail to refer to an active duty Colonel in the Air Force by his rank? HE is a combat veteran of Desert Storm and a Distinguished Flying Cross recipient.  I am sure that he EARNED his!  Also,  you refer to him as  :o"Russie"?!  What the heck?!?! :-\ 

I can assure you that he meant no malice when he referred to them as kids.  In the eyes of seasoned vets, that is exactly what they are.  This is nothing derogatory meant at all.  This goes beyond any "whine" I have ever heard anywhere...

Gunner C

#3
Quote from: PaulR on November 25, 2008, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: Gunner C on November 25, 2008, 10:23:35 PM
Taking a queue from CAP-USAF/CC:  Russie, you need to get a clue. 

Gunner

WOW!!!   :o

You are talking about "Respect" yet you fail to refer to an active duty Colonel in the Air Force by his rank?  I am sure that he EARNED his!  Also,  you refer to him as  :o"Russie"?!  What the heck?!?! :-\ 

I can assure you that he meant no malice when he referred to them as kids.  This goes beyond any "whine" I have ever heard anywhere...

It's the attitude.  It's the same as patting someone on the head.  Do you call your female co-workers "missie" or "sweetie"?  I've always addressed superior officers with respect and subordinates with the same.  I had a team sergeant who was addressed by a Lt Col by his first name:  "How're you doing today, Phil?"  He asked.  My team sergeant replied," Not bad, Bobbie.  Thanks for asking."  After the colonel almost swallowed his tongue, my team sergeant said, "My name is Master Sergeant Henry, sir."  It goes both ways.

As for the "Russie" comment, it was deserved.  He knows better.

Gunner

PaulR

Apples and oranges.

Col Hodgkins referring to the cadets as kids is not a crime punishable under the UCMJ.  Sexual harassment is.  >:D

Also members of a military rank are supposed to address one another by their rank and last name.  The Col was not addressing or speaking about a particular person.  I still dont see the issue.  I have heard cadets referred to as kids many times, when they are being discussed by AD people.  I can assure you that there is nothing belittling meant. 

As a former cadet, I feel that making a big deal about this is silly and demeaning in it's own.  Gesh! ;D

JoeTomasone


The cadets ARE kids.

The kids ARE cadets.

Can't get around that basic fact.

WIWAC, I think I might have loosed a little steam at the comment, but again, no real harm done.   Kinda like your grandpa calling you "sonny" and your aunt pinching your cheeks.

I do have to be honest, though -- I tend to view the more mature, dedicated, and focused amongst them as "cadets" and the ones who are slackers, malcontents, or simply run around being immature as "kids" -- probably because my kids are all of those.   :)    I suppose that I hope that the "kids" will blossom into "cadets" -- kind of like how in boot camp "recruits" are turned into "Marines".

Despite that, they all should be called "cadets" -- not just out of respect, but because the regs (CAPP 151) require it.


MIKE

CAPP 151 is not a reg... Just saying.
Mike Johnston

JoeTomasone

Quote from: MIKE on November 26, 2008, 12:56:51 AM
CAPP 151 is not a reg... Just saying.

Granted; did we ever sort out the official answer on the applicability of Regs, Manuals, and Pamphlets?
</threadjack>


MIKE

"nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications"  should pretty much cover it. 

Now back to your thread already in progress.
Mike Johnston

DNall

Okay, I try not to say kids when referring to cadets. It is the wrong message. We are trying to distinguish/separate them from the lower slug-like form of life that is America's youth - the commoners if you will. And, they in turn (in theory) act like adults & become professional military leaders, many of whom formalize the "military" part of that statement later in life.

That said, I call all junior enlisted in the Army kids, even if they're 40. I'm certainly guilty of referring to cadets in that way when in the company of adults & not cadets. BUT, it's not the best idea, and does give the "pat on head" demeaning connotation. Which is probably accurate about the way I feel about those groups of people, but that's not what you want to tell them.

afgeo4

Quote from: MIKE on November 26, 2008, 01:04:28 AM
"nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications"  should pretty much cover it. 

Now back to your thread already in progress.

So you think all the PD specialty track pamphlets are "non-directive how-to" publications?

They're very specific and must be followed exactly.
GEORGE LURYE

JAFO78

OK someone needs to spend more time sleeping and less time online.  :o

Just kidding.......
JAFO

jimmydeanno

I think he did a great job qualifying the subject he was talking about.  People reading the Opelika-Auburn news are probably more familiar with ROTC cadets (Both at the college and all the ROTC cadets that go to Maxwell for field training every summer).  So their impression of "cadets" are 18+ adults.

I think that "kids" is a good qualifier to show that this is a younger crowd doing this.  I didn't take it as insulting or derogatory.  Plus, in the sentence above they refer to them as cadets.

When you aren't as well known as you'd like to be you need to be more descriptive when talking about your subject.  I can say Scout and everyone knows what I'm talking about.

No harm, no foul.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Cecil DP

A Cadet is a junior member or someone who is in training.

A kid is an immature goat.

CAP members below the age of 18 are Cadets
Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85

jimmydeanno

Quote from: Cecil DP on November 26, 2008, 04:25:29 PM
A Cadet is a junior member or someone who is in training.

By your definition, but the most commonly familiar to the majority of the population is
Quote
1. a student in a national service academy or private military school or on a training ship.
2. a student in training for service as a commissioned officer in the U.S. Army, Air Force, or Coast Guard. Compare midshipman (def. 1).

People do not generally associate those two with people under 18.  To the majority of the population a cadet is a cadet is a cadet.  The only cadets they've ever seen are adults.

QuoteCAP members below the age of 18 are Cadets

Internally, yes.

QuoteA kid is an immature goat.

or...the number one definition is "a child or young person."

I'm pretty sure if he was actually addressing a group of cadets he'd use the term cadet.  He was talking to an outsider, to me anyway, it is the best way to explain the age group of our cadets, especially when the word cadet is used in the sentence prior.

You guys are making a mountain out of an molehill anthill.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

lordmonar

I can't believe we are having this conversation.

A USAF officer talking to a civilian reporter used a term that is not derogatory in any way.....and we are making a fuss?

Get over it.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

notaNCO forever

I would not consider being calling a kid derogatory in any way. If your are a CAP cadet than you are more than likely also a kid.

PaulR

Quote from: DNall on November 26, 2008, 02:52:56 AM
That said, I call all junior enlisted in the Army kids, even if they're 40. I'm certainly guilty of referring to cadets in that way when in the company of adults & not cadets. Which is probably accurate about the way I feel about those groups of people, but that's not what you want to tell them.

My point exactly! 

PaulR

#18
Quote from: Cecil DP on November 26, 2008, 04:25:29 PM
A Cadet is a junior member or someone who is in training.

A kid is an immature goat.

CAP members below the age of 18 are Cadets

To members of the regular armed forces, cadets are Service Academy or OSC Students(18-22 years of age).  Kids are catorized as anyone under the age of 17(under the minimum allowable induction age)...  To keep arguing this is silly.  Get a box of kleenex and move on!!!   ::) 

This PC crap really kills me sometimes. 

Pumbaa

How about a thread on uniforms for kids?

I can't believe this is being debated at all.  I think this site is officially cooked and over done.  I know this is not representative of CAP in my area, so with that I bid you all a fond outtahere!

Definitions of  kid on the Web:

    * child: a young person of either sex; "she writes books for children"; "they're just kids"; "`tiddler' is a British term for youngster"
    * soft smooth leather from the hide of a young goat; "kid gloves"
    * Kyd: English dramatist (1558-1594)
    * pull the leg of: tell false information to for fun; "Are you pulling my leg?"
    * child: a human offspring (son or daughter) of any age; "they had three children"; "they were able to send their kids to college"
    * be silly or tease one another; "After we relaxed, we just kidded around"