AF vehicles for CAP

[Stonewall]

I know you're probably more than qualified to drive a small bus (or even a large one), but, having a state licsence might make all the difference (it's almost like even though you know how to fly a plane, you still have to have the licsence to go anywhere)

I agree.  I think CAP members who get a CAP DL should be required to demonstrate their ability to drive a 15 (12 pax) van.  In DCWG we had a 15 pax van and utility trailer that we pulled behind.  It ain't easy to drive 12 screaming cadets in a big van plus pull that big trailer that seems to sway all over the place.  I think some training should have been in order.

WIWAC we had an Army Reservist that would sign out an Army Deuce and a Half for CAP activities. 

[Eclipse]

OK..So,let me ask this,.....if you have a CDL, do you think it would make a difference with NHQ on approving such things?

I doubt it - bringing in vehicles that require a special license to operate is not a good idea in our program.  I certainly wouldn't let it happen in any of my units - lose the one driver you have and you can't even get rid of the thing, let alone use it.

ATV's are not allowed but golf carts are under certain provisions?....That's WHACKED!!!!

Almost immediately after a serious accident involving cadets and golf carts last year, a move was made to ban the carts completely, then some high-visibility activities that use, and even own carts and similar started to complain and an exemption was made for these activities.

They have to be National or Regional activities, and for the most part its the ones already established - you won't be able to use them at your local pancake fly-in, etc.

How they are inherently "safer" at a national activity vs. a local one is beyond me.

[swamprat86]

WIWAC NJ Wing had two 52 PAX bus, a Deuce and a half, a refrigeration truck, and an assortment of other vehicle types including the vans.

Ahh, the Cold War era.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Almost immediately after a serious accident involving cadets and golf carts last year, a move was made to ban the carts completely, then some high-visibility activities that use, and even own carts and similar started to complain and an exemption was made for these activities.

They have to be National or Regional activities, and for the most part its the ones already established - you won't be able to use them at your local pancake fly-in, etc.

How they are inherently "safer" at a national activity vs. a local one is beyond me.

They're not safer, but you can bet enforcement is different at a national or regional activity than at a local one -- or, at least, that's what the Powers That Be may be banking on. The common sense that members should have isn't always so common. And while common sense can't be enforced, tighter policy can.

[Viper QA]

Most AF vehicles these days, including vehicles used on the flightline are on lease programs and are turned over every 4 years or so. That's why you see vehicles that are colors other than blue. They lease lots of whatever is on the production line at the time and fits the need, especially vans and step-vans. They (AF) do buy some vehicles, but most are leased or GSA, which is a whole different matter. Those are kept for a certain amount of years or miles and then turned back into GSA who auctions them off. What I do see being outright purchased are the six passenger pick-up trucks. They seemed to hang around for years. I'm not sure how CAP would go about getting vehicles that the AF no longer needs.

[ol'fido]

In Illinois, we used to be able to go to the state CMS depot in Springfield and get items that had been turned in as surplus by the various state agencies. Then they decided that since we could get stuff from DRMO that that was double dipping so they shut off the state surplus. You could get just about anything there from old BDUs  to the big commercial size John boats in woodland cammie that I think came from a Combat Engineer company.

But then again these days the state is so broke that I would be afraid of anything I got there vehicle wise.  I work for DOC and the van I drive every day(12 pax Ford just like the CAP vans except for the cage behind the front seats) is a 1992 model with about two square foot of the body rusted away and a piece of 1" aluminum pipe bent into the shape of a gate handle to pull the driver's door shut. My door key will unlock just about any Ford van we have. And this is one of the better of the six large Ford vans we have.

[cap235629]

well maybe we will see more non GSA vehicles now that we have bailed out the Auto Industry.  Remember all the K-Cars the government had in inventory after we bailed out Chrysler?

[argentip]

Another reason for not letting CAP have busses and other large-type vehicles is probably insurance.  My guess would be that CAP's insurance rates would go up significantly if we added these vehicles back into our line ups.

[PHall]

Another reason for not letting CAP have busses and other large-type vehicles is probably insurance.  My guess would be that CAP's insurance rates would go up significantly if we added these vehicles back into our line ups.

The reason for CAP not having busses was an accident that happened about 15 years ago in California.

Poorly trained CAP driver driving a poorly maintained Air Force bus.

Result, one totalled bus with numerous injuries to include one non-member who ended up a paraplegic.

Took about five years for all of the lawsuits to play out.

[afgeo4]

Two vehicles I still see in Blue and with Air Force plates (and not GSA) are:

1. Flightline (aircrew) shuttle busses (pax box van).
2. Pick-ups, crew cab, mostly 4x4 (primarily in Security Forces, EOD, Services and Civil Engineering units).

Both would be VERY useful for the operations side of the house as SAR and C&C vehicles.

[RiverAux]

Those are really the sorts of things I was talking about. 

[PHall]

Two vehicles I still see in Blue and with Air Force plates (and not GSA) are:

1. Flightline (aircrew) shuttle busses (pax box van).
2. Pick-ups, crew cab, mostly 4x4 (primarily in Security Forces, EOD, Services and Civil Engineering units).

Both would be VERY useful for the operations side of the house as SAR and C&C vehicles.

You know, usually by the time those "specialised" vehicles get to DRMO, they're pretty nasty.

The last "crew bus" (aka box van) we had in my unit before I retired a couple years ago was 5 years old when we got it (it came from aircraft maintenance) and we turned it in to DRMO when it was 9 years old because the transmission died.

[RiverAux]

I would hope that it goes without saying that we wouldn't just take any old piece of trash that was available, but that we would be pretty choosy about which vehicles we try to get. 

Heck, anyone who has gone to a DRMO knows that there is a lot of junk of all kinds there that we would never think about taking, but there are occassionally some great items.  The same thing would no doubt be the case with vehicles. 

[FW]

^I remember one guy who went to DRMO and tried to take a submarine.  What the wing was going to do with it was anyone's guess.  Luckily, even though the sub was "free", the battery bank costs about $1 million.  I told him if he would buy the batteries and, if he would get them installed at his expense, he could get it for us.  I never heard about the sub again  

[Tubacap]

^That is awesome!  I have never been to DRMO, but it definitely intrigues me to see what is there.  Is there an online inventory that we have access to?

[Sgt. Savage]

1) I don't know if it's legal, and I suspect it wasn't, but an ANG E-7 / CAP member borrowed a bus for a CAP event. I don't think anyone that would have cared knew enough to object.

2) Maybe the vehicle situation could use some rethinking. If we had a GSAR mission and needed to move to a forward operating base, we couldn't move our gear and people in 8 trips. The math says you don't drive everyone (even cadets) to an event that's only 1/2 hour away. 8 trips = no less than 8 hours (round trips) This could mean days of mobilizing a squadron for a GSAR. A better way is really needed.

[argentip]

^That is awesome!  I have never been to DRMO, but it definitely intrigues me to see what is there.  Is there an online inventory that we have access to?

It is my understanding that there are only certain things that CAP is able to get from DRMO and that requests have to go through your wing's State Director.  Your SD may be able to negotiate items that aren't on the "approved" list as well.

[badger bob]

CAP currently has a federally appropriated line item in the Air Force budget for vehicle purchases. Currently, the appropriated funds only allow the purchase of around 35 vehicles per year.

For 2009, CAP is currently evaluating the purchase of full sized 12p vans; 7-8 passenger minivan/ crossover; 4 door sedan; 4 door crew cab 4x4 pickups and full sized SUV 4x4s. 2006, 2007, and 2008 were all full sized vans.

CAP is allowed to screen (recieve by transfer) vehicles from the DRMO including transfers for the Air Force. Normally, those transfers work the best if CAP members have advance knowledge of vehicles the AF is replacing and advaance knowledge of the vehicle condition. When CAP recieves a vehicle from any source other than NHQ purchases, the wing is responsible for all maintenance and repair  costs for 12 months. NHQ CAP and CAP-USAF must both approve vehicles or aircraft from any source.

[RiverAux]

Hmm, we have something like 900 vehicles and we're replacing about 3 dozen a year.  That is not anywhere close to what is needed to keep a really safe fleet on the road.  At that rate it will take 26 years to replace all our vehicles.  The message I get from that is that the AF is wanting to get out of the the CAP vehicle business and that it won't be long before the number of CAP vehicles is cut in half as we're forced to get rid of 15-year old vans and not see them replaced. 

[badger bob]

The NHQ staff is aware that the 35 vehicles will not keep our fleet current.

The DEC 2008 BOG was asked and did approve lobbying to increase the vehicle replacement budget from 35 to 91 vehicles per year

3. Increasing Vehicle Procurement Funding
• Current procurement funding does not allow for required vehicle
replacements for CAP's 1500 squadrons.
• Current funding only allows replacing 36 vehicles a year out of the 91
that are needed.
• Current funding directly impacts CAP's readiness to conduct AFassigned SAR/DR/HLS operations as well as cadet and aerospace
education programs.