AF vehicles for CAP

RiverAux · April 13, 2009, 03:01:31 AM

Although it has been a while since the Air Force has transerred any aircraft or vehicles to CAP, their abilit to do so is still there in federal law. And while I don't think we have a need for any surplus F-15s, I bet there are quite a few cars, vans, and SUVs out there that could potentially be servicable enough for CAP use. No, I'm not talking about humvees, but regular vehicles.

I'm not sure what the current standards are for getting those vehicles out of the federal inventory (age or mileage), but given the age of a lot of our current vehicles and the fact that we're not replacing them fast enough, a 7-year old AF van is probably still going to be better than the 15 year old CAP van.

flyguy06 · April 13, 2009, 03:07:13 AM

Thats a very good question. How does a squadron get vheciles either from the AF or local government agencies?

SarDragon · April 13, 2009, 03:40:59 AM

My last experience with getting vehicles from the AF was via DRMO, and it was a train wreck from the word go. That 7 yo AF vehicle has probably had 7 years of really hard "it's not my vehicle, why should I care" usage, and may well be in worse condition that a 15 yo CAP van bought new. Stuff goes to DRMO for a reason - it's past its useful life.

FW · April 13, 2009, 03:46:05 AM

I think that all federal govt. vehicles must go back to GSA (including military) when they are finished with them. The GSA auctions them off. I doubt that they can go to CAP anymore. However, check with your state director for more information. (DRMO is what I'm thinking about here.)

State/local govt. vehicles are a different story. Each state has different statutes covering the disposal of vehicles. My advice is to get friendly with a local official to get a "donation" for the unit.

Sometimes you can get a vehicle from a "private" source. However, CAPR 77-1 is the reg that spells things out.

BuckeyeDEJ · April 13, 2009, 04:06:07 AM

There may also be a liability issue that restricts what we could/could not get from the Air Force.

For instance: When I was a cadet, my squadron had a 70-pax bus. Yip, Wayne body, International gasoline chassis, painted Air Force blue with a white top, CAP seal decal on the side and the five-digit number underneath (old-timers: first two digits were 47 -- where was I?). My unit also had a white Dodge Fury sedan (white, state surplus) and a clapped-out Air Force short-wheelbase Dodge pickup, all marked IAW regulations. Ah, those were the days.

Nowadays, everything's a 15-pax van with tire paranoia. Would CAP insure buses, HMMWVs, fleet Taurus sedans or pickups? Not sure.

PHall · April 13, 2009, 04:14:50 AM

Almost all of the "General Purpose" vehicles used by the Air Force these days are GSA vehicles.
General purpose vehicles are the vehicles that CAP used to get from the Air Force.

About the only vehicles on base that still have US AIR FORCE on them are specialised vehicles like Fire Trucks, Refueling Trucks and Buses.

And we're not allowed to have those.

lordmonar · April 13, 2009, 06:10:08 AM

By the time the vehicles get to DRMO they have been stripped of any usable parts.

Cecil DP · April 13, 2009, 11:30:05 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on April 13, 2009, 06:10:08 AM
By the time the vehicles get to DRMO they have been stripped of any usable parts.

and DRMO gets their equipment after all other government agencies have had a chance to turn it down.

Rob Sherlin · April 13, 2009, 12:10:58 PM

You'd probably do better getting an auction permit and going to an auction where they sell vans and busses. I agree on the point made that most military vehicles go through more abuse than others. There's a lot of old school buses and vans out there that are in fairly decent condition, and other than converting them into mobile homes, most people aren't interested in them, so they usually go for pretty cheap. The only other problem you would have is the funding to do so. Then maybe throw a camo paint job on it or whatever.

Eclipse · April 13, 2009, 01:58:53 PM

Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on April 13, 2009, 04:06:07 AM
Nowadays, everything's a 15-pax van with tire paranoia. Would CAP insure buses, HMMWVs, fleet Taurus sedans or pickups? Not sure.

Who would drive a bus?

In my state that requires a CDL.

As to acquiring vehicles from other sources than CAP channels - in my parts, including the region, the issue is that a lot of unit CC's can't be bothered to complete the regular vehicle requests. or when they get the a COV, perform the proper maintenance.

The vans in my AOR are the newest-looking / running 10-years old vehicles you'll ever see. I've had no issues getting the USAF to pay for maintenance, paint jobs, and even recently some oil changes.

What they are issuing isn't "perfect" for any mission, but is acceptable for most, and the price is right.

Also, my experience with DRMO vehicles is the same as above - by the time the are treated like rentals by slick-sleeves, picked over for parts, and then held on the side for someone in the know, there's not much left of them you'd want. And I know my wing/region has been reluctant to take on the maintenance risk of someone else's junk they want to donate when we've got vans sitting unused at wing.

Rob Sherlin · April 13, 2009, 03:03:16 PM

If you have a small bus (I'm not talking full greyhound type or anything), it would be extremely useful for transport (people up top, gear underneath), and is actually more fuel saving than taking quite a few vehicles, to transport many members and gear. It really isn't that hard to get a CDL if your driving record is clear, and you can probably use the obtaining of the whole thing for a tax break (what else are you going to be using it for?)..

EMT-83 · April 13, 2009, 03:33:54 PM

From CAPR 77-1:

Types of vehicles not permitted to be owned or operated by CAP will be determined by NHQ. Vehicles not permitted to be owned or operated by CAP include, but are not limited to:
1) Buses
2) Water trailers
3) Humvees
4) Deuce and half (2 1/2 ton vehicles or larger)
5) Boats
6) All terrain vehicles (ATV)
7) Golf cart type utility vehicle (gas or electric) except as authorized in para 2e

Rob Sherlin · April 13, 2009, 03:57:32 PM

#4 made me laugh because I had a neighbor when I was younger who had a half-track (back end was like a tank) and use to tear up the streets (they made him sign it over to some museum or pay a huge fine from what I hear). But, what are the regs classifying as a bus? (you can consider an extended van as a bus in some states)

EMT-83 · April 13, 2009, 04:14:47 PM

Well, let's see... we had to take the back seat out of the vans. That should provide some guidance.

Stonewall · April 13, 2009, 04:22:26 PM

I bought a new radio for work and had CAP channels added. Now I got us a high speed utility cart that is "street legal". Too bad we're not authorized to use it, it rocks. I'd even bring it to CAP activities on my dime ($0 because we have a trailer).

Rob Sherlin · April 13, 2009, 04:31:51 PM

OK..So,let me ask this,.....if you have a CDL, do you think it would make a difference with NHQ on approving such things?

ATV's are not allowed but golf carts are under certain provisions?....That's WHACKED!!!!

Stonewall · April 13, 2009, 04:35:12 PM

No.

I have a current AF drivers license, flight line drivers license, graduate of EVOC and am "rated" with Humvees, ATVs, 6-wheeled utility vehicle and about 6 other things I don't the accronyms for. I still can't drive any of things while in a CAP status.

Rob Sherlin · April 13, 2009, 04:41:56 PM

Stonewall "Ultimate Kirt" (he he)....I know you're probably more than qualified to drive a small bus (or even a large one), but, having a state licsence might make all the difference (it's almost like even though you know how to fly a plane, you still have to have the licsence to go anywhere)

RiverAux · April 13, 2009, 04:44:51 PM

Quote from: FW on April 13, 2009, 03:46:05 AM
I think that all federal govt. vehicles must go back to GSA (including military) when they are finished with them. The GSA auctions them off. I doubt that they can go to CAP anymore. However, check with your state director for more information. (DRMO is what I'm thinking about here.)

State/local govt. vehicles are a different story. Each state has different statutes covering the disposal of vehicles. My advice is to get friendly with a local official to get a "donation" for the unit.

Sometimes you can get a vehicle from a "private" source. However, CAPR 77-1 is the reg that spells things out.

Federal law says that Air Force vehicles can go to CAP. Perhaps there is a conflicting law, but if it is just some internal govenrment practice that would be superceded by the law.

BuckeyeDEJ · April 13, 2009, 04:54:37 PM

Quote from: RiverAux on April 13, 2009, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: FW on April 13, 2009, 03:46:05 AM
I think that all federal govt. vehicles must go back to GSA (including military) when they are finished with them. The GSA auctions them off. I doubt that they can go to CAP anymore. However, check with your state director for more information. (DRMO is what I'm thinking about here.)

State/local govt. vehicles are a different story. Each state has different statutes covering the disposal of vehicles. My advice is to get friendly with a local official to get a "donation" for the unit.

Sometimes you can get a vehicle from a "private" source. However, CAPR 77-1 is the reg that spells things out.
Federal law says that Air Force vehicles can go to CAP. Perhaps there is a conflicting law, but if it is just some internal govenrment practice that would be superceded by the law.

If the vehicles are actually GSA motor pool cars, they're not Air Force vehicles to begin with. They're on loan. So that shuts out those cars.