CAP - CERT or MEMS

[wuzafuzz]

Does anyone know of CAP units that have pursued CERT, NASAR, or MEMS type training?

I'm curious how those programs compare to our own ES programs.  Are they better? Worse? Are they CAP appropriate? 

Obviously our ability to provide aircraft and aircrews is unique and should be our primary focus.  Nonetheless, we have GTM, UDF, comms, and various mission base people who don't get to do much and might be able to use their talents and resources for other contingencies, under the CAP banner.  Personally I like to think CAP members can be of use beyond flying missions and tracking ELT's.  Perhaps some squadrons already do.

Just wondering out loud...

[arajca]

I have earned the MEMS basic badge. It really doesn't apply to CAP. It is mostly FEMA IS courses with a project (if you're a member of a state guard) at the end.

NASAR would be good for GT's, but not really applicable to base staff since it focuses on ground search, kind of like how CAP focuses on air search.

CERT is primarily a "help you help yourself and neighbors" program. CERT teams are not generally considered 'deployable' assets like GT's are. The training and knowledge is useful.

I think something like a Disaster Relief Task Force system would be an interesting idea. Trained and certified at the Type III level, it could be a great asset for large scale disasters. The next step in this concept would be to plan - with many other agencies - large scale disaster relief exercises (DREx). Besides communications - which is always lacking at disasters - a large problem is how to handle the number of unaffiliated volunteers who show up wanting to help. I think CAP could serve in this role.

[RiverAux]

CAP ground team training is not all that different than offered by NASAR.  The difference is that you have to pay a bunch of money to have a NASAR-approved trainer test you.  People make a big deal about NASAR being a nationally recognized program, but forget that CAP is probably the biggest ground SAR organization in the country -- we just don't get the credit for it. 

CERT has been discussed in other threads -- I'll just say that it could provide a good intro to basic disaster relief stuff, but CAP training time would be better spent getting people ground team qualified. 

MEMS is okay and I wouldn't be adverse to CAP highlighting more of these courses than we have. 

[cap235629]

CAP has authorized Homeland Security/Disaster Relief Officers at all levels of command.  I am the HS/DR officer for our squadron.  Part of my duties is to maintain a relationship with local Emergency Management Directors.  The biggest obstacle to them utilizing our resources and requesting support is that they don't speak CAP and we don't speak CERT or NASAR.  Our squadron is addressing this by cross training all of our CAP QUALIFIED ground team members in CERT and NASAR.  The CAP mission is evolving and we must be prepared to meet the new mission.  Air operations is but one aspect of our capabilities but all too often they are all that is thought of when CAP is concerned.

With regard to MEMS, does CAP even acknowledge this certification?  I have never seen it mentioned except in the Sate Guard arena

[RiverAux]

No it is not acknowledged by CAP in any way, nor should it be. 

[arajca]

CAP has authorized Homeland Security/Disaster Relief Officers at all levels of command.  I am the HS/DR officer for our squadron.  Part of my duties is to maintain a relationship with local Emergency Management Directors.  The biggest obstacle to them utilizing our resources and requesting support is that they don't speak CAP and we don't speak CERT or NASAR.  Our squadron is addressing this by cross training all of our CAP QUALIFIED ground team members in CERT and NASAR.  The CAP mission is evolving and we must be prepared to meet the new mission.  Air operations is but one aspect of our capabilities but all too often they are all that is thought of when CAP is concerned.

CAP does not need to 'speak' CERT or NASAR. CAP needs to 'speak' NIMS.

[nesagsar]

NASAR does some things very differently than we do. I never looked at a NASAR course until after I had senior GTM in CAP and some just didnt click in with what I had already learned at NESA. It is a good thing to learn new stuff though so you should still look in to the training.

[_]

To give you my background, I am a NASAR SARTECH2 and have completed CERT.

I found CERT to be very informative and quite fun.  As for whether it would really come into play in a CAP mission, probably not.  CERT is more for when the infrastructure on the area has been knocked out and you're not going to get outside help for a while.  CERT is more for immediate response.  You would not be covered under CAP or AF insurance until a mission number is assigned and by that point it's probably after the main usefulness of being CERT trained has passed.  CERT is something that could be a fun squadron activity and the people could benefit from the training.

As for NASAR, they are nationally recognized certifications.  Having a SARTECH certification means you passed the evaluation but doesn't necessarily mean you went through a training course.  There are training courses that teach the material but they don't automatically get you the certification at the end.  If you go to any civilian SAR organization in the US and tell them you are a SARTECH#, they automatically know you're training level.  The SARTECH2 standard has even been talked about as a possible guide for the NIMS Wilderness SAR typing.  SARTECH 3 is pretty much GES.  SARTECH 2 is the pretty much the standard for your normal SAR person.  It's basically a combo of GTM3 and 2.  The evaluation is not easy and quite a few people fail the testing.  SARTECH 1/Crewleader is even harder.

I also feel we are not being utilized as much as we can.  We are bound by our association with the AFRCC for better or worse.  We get insurance coverage on missions and reimbursements but we are also are not often allowed to be utilized for missing persons searches because we are a federal asset.  It's the nature of the beast.  Again this is a good and bad thing.  Because we do more ELT type missions we can get younger cadets involved in SAR.  Besides the obvious good thing SAR performs it is a chance for cadets to learn and improve themselves is a way not normally available.  In the civilian SAR world often times there is an age requirement that the person be at least 18.  We have a major part to play in the SAR community.  ELT searches are not glamorous but it has to be done and we generally do the job very well but we don't generally have the same impact as a civilian SAR team that is very active in missing persons searches.

I personally don't see a change in our participation in the SAR community anytime soon.  While I plan to stay active in CAP SAR I have started the process of joining a civilian SAR team.  Unfortunately i think that is the only real way to get more involved in missing persons searches where I can have a large impact on the survival of the person we're looking for.

[nesagsar]

I was a GTM for 3 years in CAP and never got to do anything really. I joined my county ESDA team and we are a bit more active but I am the only person on the team under 35, we dont get to do too much.

[cap235629]

I can only speak for the Arkansas Wing, but we are integrated into the Arkansas Department of Emergency Management's Response Plan and receive many missions through them.  Our local emergency managers do not understand CAP training and certifications. THE CUSTOMER (local jurisdictions) speaks a different language.  How can CAP expect to "get missions" if we don't speak the same language.  Disaster Relief missions are predominately a ground activity outside of aerial assessment missions and the OCCASIONAL transport mission.  CAP has acknowledged that we need to evolve otherwise we would not be pushing ICS and NIMS.  The more training the better. 

The NASAR training we are advocating is SARTECH III so we can better integrate with agencies we will be working with (speaking the same language).

CERT is so when resources are requested we can turn to the Planning Section Chief or Logistics at a given DR site and say "we have 3 CERT teams, what is the mission"

In the last 8 months our squadron has been called out for 1 missing aircraft (no elt, CAP was the primary agency according to the response plan, found him using CAP resources, ARCHER!) 2 missing person searches (ground teams, no aircraft involved, local jurisdiction requested assets through ADEM), and, on a wing level, 2 different disaster responses.  This is in addition to a couple of middle of the night ELT missions handled by other squadrons.

In each instance that ground assets were employed, we were either under the direction of a local SAR agency or Emercency Management Agency (as a unit asset) or working with these teams.  Kinda helped that we all spoke the same language.

As far as CERT goes, where in the GTM training is their any training about building searches?  Look to Katrina and you will see the future.  What did we do and better yet what COULD we do with a little more training that ENHANCES our CAP training but does not replace it?  All of this training is IN ADDITION to GTM training.

Disaster Response is going to be more and more important in these post Katrina days.  All CAP is Local.  What does your CUSTOMER need (and yes ADEM pays our bills when we are requested).

Our squadron is the only ground SAR team in our county.  Unless the local Emergency Managers join CAP, they have no real understanding as to what we are capable of.  They do speak CERT and NASAR.  They speak ICS, but how resistant is your unit to ICS and NIMS?  Change is good, if it enhances our capabilities.  More training is never a bad thing

[RiverAux]

It is the responsibility of CAP to go out and interact with these folks so they know about us and how to use us.  Heck, we have staff officers who are supposed to be doing it as part of their job. 

A county with no SAR team at all isn't going to be any more familiar with NASAR than CAP.  Flop a GT task guide on their desk and tell them thats what we train to do, and they'll be more than satisified that we can do the job. 

[cap235629]

I am THAT staff officer for the task..

My first post reflected my experience in interacting with the local agencies, which is what dictated our decision to pursue more training

[wuzafuzz]

It sounds like CAP has more going on in the disaster relief than I thought.   I didn't know about the Homeland Security/Disaster Relief officers.  Where can I learn more about that?  It sounds like something interesting to pursue, and I should definitely be aware of it as a PAO.

Overall it sounds like CERT is a great program but doesn't quite fit with CAP ES.  CERT might be a fine cadet activity (a few hours after I started this thread I saw an article in Volunteer about cadets training in CERT).  NASAR sounds like a better fit, if only to improve recognition and interoperability from other SAR ground teams.  But it's expensive.  Speaking NIMS and getting the word out to "customers" sounds like the best idea and it isn't limited to ground SAR.

Getting involved in disaster relief could provide additional missions for ground focused folks.  It appears some states have SDF's doing some of this, but some states don't have state guards.  Even then, some situations need all the TRAINED help they can get.  Situations like last years wildfires in CA, or Katrina, current flooding, etc come to mind.  Sometimes our aircrews are flying but ground pounders are sitting around wishing they could contribute.  Even cadets MAY be able to contribute more, even if all they do is distribute water or lunches to other responders (depending on circumstances and working conditions of course!).

Networking with other organizations and potential customers is paramount.  Recently a member of my squadron attended a planning conference with other SAR agencies.  I believe there were about 12 organizations represented, only one had even heard of CAP.  I wonder if there are national SAR publications, like our own Volunteer magazine, that would be interested in running an article on CAP...things that make you say hmmmm.

Any other thoughts?

[RiverAux]

Getting involved in disaster relief could provide additional missions for ground focused folks.

Unfortunately, CAP has never developed, or at least doesn't have now, any sort of national vision towards what we could or should be doing on the ground during disasters.  Oh, you can find a few things here and there about CAP helping run command centers or perhaps manning radios, but thats about it. 

[Eclipse]

No one has a national vision, because the needs are so subjective to the local specifics.

Interagency cooperation is the 5000 pound elephant in the living room no one wants to address.
Certainly there are pockets of success, but roll up on the average large accident or crime scene and you'll first have every agency fighting over who is in charge, then every agency disavowing responsibility for the "icky", expensive parts.

There is no such thing a "too much" training, but don't make the mistake of insinuating to your members that it is "required", "better", or "coming soon" to CAP.

You may also find yourself in the position of members being courted by other organizations with less restricitve operations or more local, hands on response.  Members only have so many hours to spend on volunteerism each week and they may decide regulalrly directing traffic in a CERT uniform after a storm is a better use of their time than CAP.

CAP is not a recruiting service for other agencies.

You're better off concentrating on training and proficiency of CAP training, which you can then go and "sell" to local agencies to get real-world work.

[RiverAux]

No one has a national vision, because the needs are so subjective to the local specifics.

No, not really.  Earthquakes look pretty much the same whether you're in California or the New Madrid fault.  Hurricanes look the same along the gulf or eastern coasts.  Same for winter storms, floods, tornados, massive wildfires, etc.  The responese to these disasters are basically similar as well. 

For all those disasters, it is pretty clear what our aircrews will be doing if you take a look at the skills we practice and the exercises we do.  But, we have no such guidance for our ground forces.  There are lots of things we could potentially be doing, but we haven't developed a "brand" like we have with our aerial component. 

The fact that we're establishing a "CERT" ES qualification with absolutely no guidance on how that is to be employed is representative of this lack of planning.  For example, one of the purposes of CERT is light urban SAR -- meaning doing searches of buildings damaged by storms.  Does the new 60-3 square that with the existing restriction in 60-3 on urban SAR?  Regulations on entry into private property?  Nope. 

[SoCalMarine]

OK as a member of CAP and in the GA Guard...

I'm basic MEMS certified. The basic level is very simple. Six FEMA ISCs which you can do in an hour. Now, I qualified by going through BNCOC for the practicum side, but my time at NESA last year also qualified for that section. I attended both the ICS basic and advanced classes over the two weeks.

A single level of MEMS doesn't compare to IC3 (which I'm also working towards), but I'd say the ENTIRE MEMS program is comparable and maybe a little more practical from a professional viewpoint working in the ES field.

Now, IC in CAP. I think that this program is a very hard program. The GT stuff is relatively simple (although remember I was in the Marines) and its more time consuming than hard. About the same for GTL, but there is a lot more of IC than that. I think those additional requirements you need above GTL to be IC3 pushes the program over MEMS.... maybe.

As for CERT, I think CAP should get their squadrons to take the courses but be clear you're not going to get any uniform items out of it for CAP. I think CERT is an excellent program though and helps people take some ownership of their community.

[RADIOMAN015]

No one has a national vision, because the needs are so subjective to the local specifics.


You may also find yourself in the position of members being courted by other organizations with less restricitve operations or more local, hands on response.  Members only have so many hours to spend on volunteerism each week and they may decide regulalrly directing traffic in a CERT uniform after a storm is a better use of their time than CAP.

CAP is not a recruiting service for other agencies.

You're better off concentrating on training and proficiency of CAP training, which you can then go and "sell" to local agencies to get real-world work.

My wing has NO disaster relief mission for ground personnel.  During the recent very unusual severe weather aftermath (Tornado(s) 37 mile path of destruction) the wing provided recon photos to the state emergency management agency & also flew the National Weather Experts over the path of the three tornado(s) so they could make a determination on how many, starting points, and strength.  Additionally a small airport was leveled with 30+ planes destroyed/severely damage and ground UDF /air DF responded to shut off the ELT's.   Locally one of the squadrons had/has a small group of cadets/seniors assisting a church group with cleaning up specific home areas in one of cities affected. 

The issue with CAP is to find a "niche" that ground teams (primarily composed of cadets) can be effectively & safely utilized at as Civil Air Patrol and not as a sub unit of another organization in disaster relief.  I don't believe that nationally there's that many senior members on ground teams, but I could be wrong. 

Perhaps in my wing those ground trained personnel may find CERT and/or the Red Cross is a more viable alternative since those organizations' training will be put to use, BUT CAP's "field training" likely at this point won't 

I'll admit that the Red Cross was very impressive to me on how they ramped up their response with over 200 volunteers and support vehicles deploying (from near & far away chapters) to every affected community as well as operating shelter ops in at least 4 of the 10+ communities affected.  It seems to me they have a VERY effective mobilization and support plan.  :clap:             
RM

[EMT-83]

A good number of those ARC resources were already mobilized for a major exercise. They shifted direction and got right to work.