Sign Off GTM2 tasks while training for GTM3

[bassque]

All,

Quick question.  While training for GTM3 tasks and combining some GTM2 tasks in the training, can the GTM2 tasks be signed off or does the member need to wait for GTM3 status and sign off on the GTM2 tasks after they have reached the GTM3 qualification? 

For example, if while doing some compass and map work they complete O-0211 Determine Elevation on a map.  Do we need to wait for another training session after they have achieved GTM3 or can we go ahead and sign that off for the member?

Thanks!
Jeff

[cap235629]

You canbe signed off on any task at any time

[RiverAux]

Brings up yet again the stupidity with which tasks were split into the different GT levels.  Instead of grouping all similar tasks together so that you can effectively train for them all at once, they're divided into the different levels with no apparent rhyme or reason. 

[Spaceman3750]

Brings up yet again the stupidity with which tasks were split into the different GT levels.  Instead of grouping all similar tasks together so that you can effectively train for them all at once, they're divided into the different levels with no apparent rhyme or reason.

There's not any map work in GTM3, just compass work. The levels make sense to me - 3 is your basic searcher, 2 is primarily focused on navigation and extended duration, 1 is wrapping up a few things including some "GTL-lite" training.

[bassque]

Thanks everyone.  I think the current approach is pretty good actually.  I was ground team as a cadet a number of years back where it was you were either GTM or GL.  For training, I think the stepped approach actually helps in focusing on the basics and reinforcing them as you become more experienced.  Given a choice of the old approach vs this one, I prefer the current one.

Thanks!
Jeff

[SarDragon]

The flaw in the system is that you can progress from GTM3 to GTL without doing GTM2 and GTM1 along the way.

[a2capt]

Flaw? Is it actually worded that you have to get those interim ratings first?

It didn't used to be that way, save for a gateway rating. UDF or GTM, MS, MSA, MRO.. Of course, they didn't bust it down to three levels back then either. I can see where GTM3 vs. GTM1 works to get people who just want to start in said specialty first..

Not challenging, but asking. Since I've only had to deal with the entry level ratings on any of these so far.

[Ed Bos]

The GTM3 to GTL situation isn't a flaw per-se. The allowance for this type of progression is intended to give IC's and ES Officers flexibility in using their personnel.

If a GTL is only GT3 rated, then the team isn't considered available for anything beyond the GT3-level training, with few exceptions made under the "exceptional qualification" rules that let ICs use personnel as-needed (CAPR 60-3, Para 2-3g).

Once a GTL is GTM1 rated, then that restriction no longer affects the team.

The bottom line is that a GTM3-to-GTL progression allows a new senior member to take out a team of cadets with less time taken before they're qualified to do so. I don't believe it's a preferred training paradigm, and at the NESA GTL school we have all of our students show proficiency with all GTM2, GTM1, UDF, and GTL tasks... no easy task in 1 week.

[a2capt]

Thats what I thought, good deal

[Spaceman3750]

Most of the GTL SQTR is GTM2, 1, and UDF tasks. You'll have a pretty hard time getting GTL without hitting one or several of those along the way.

Like Maj. Bos said, NESA GTL school covers 2, 1, UDF, and GTL. There are many of the "old school" types that seem to think that you get GTM3 and GTL without hitting 2, 1, and UDF along the way and refuse to believe anything besides what they "know". I think it's an excellent way to get your GTL rating and I am pushing a couple of my seniors to go this year.

[davidsinn]

Most of the GTL SQTR is GTM2, 1, and UDF tasks. You'll have a pretty hard time getting GTL without hitting one or several of those along the way.

Like Maj. Bos said, NESA GTL school covers 2, 1, UDF, and GTL. There are many of the "old school" types that seem to think that you get GTM3 and GTL without hitting 2, 1, and UDF along the way and refuse to believe anything besides what they "know". I think it's an excellent way to get your GTL rating and I am pushing a couple of my seniors to go this year.

There are only three tasked that are on GT1/2 and UDF that are not on GTL, and one of those is prepare UDF equipment so I consider that irrelevant. I made a matrix up a while back that shows how all the tasks align and my proposal for how to realign them to simplify the system. I can't attach it though. If anyone wants it PM me.