CAP participation at political events

[Wicky]

I think a clarification on this needs to be posted.
1. The Northern Desert Composite Squadron "IS NOT" co-hosting this event.
2. The Squadron was asked to present the colors in honor of the Constitution of the United States, NOT A POLITICAL PARTY.
3. All CAP members in uniform will be off the premises before any other activity begin, if any other activity be presented.
4. All facts should be obtained before any accusations or ti-rates begin.
5. No monies were offered nor collected for this event. It is a community service event.
6. The salute is to the Constitution of the United States and nothing else.
In these times of such division in this country it seems to me to be necessary to remind all that CAP is one family no matter the political leanings of any one individual. The cadets from the Northern Desert Composite Squadron put in hundreds of hours of community service each year. In my opinion, we all should be thanking them for their dedication to serving their community and not criticizing them for wanting to honor the Constitution of the United States of America that so many of our fellow members have chosen to also honor. NO MATTER THEIR POLITICAL BELIEFS!
Member of the NDCS

[Major Carrales]

My comment about the "crusade" was in regards to Patterson promising to "call out" every activity. Let's not take my words out of context lest this turns into a chapter from a Texas history book.

"College Limbo..." eh? To quote Stan Lee "'nuff said."  As a Teacher in Texas of 7th Grade Texas history I am offended by that comment.  You are proving the point I just made about partisanship.

I am disallusioned with both sides.  I am a Constitutionalist, but in the fact that I have studied it greatly (yes, in College) and use it as a benchmark for all legilstive intent, executive action and jurisprudence.  Not because I want someone elected or ousted.

[Eclipse]

^ Most of Wicky's post is irrelevant to the discussion.  The fact that the members participating are dedicated does not change the fact that
they may be misguided in participating.

As to the comments that we are supposed to contact the unit for more details - this discussion is based on a public news story, so if nothing else this is a lesson in unintended consequences.

[Major Carrales]

I think a clarification on this needs to be posted.
1. The Northern Desert Composite Squadron "IS NOT" co-hosting this event.
2. The Squadron was asked to present the colors in honor of the Constitution of the United States, NOT A POLITICAL PARTY.
3. All CAP members in uniform will be off the premises before any other activity begin, if any other activity be presented.
4. All facts should be obtained before any accusations or ti-rates begin.
5. No monies were offered nor collected for this event. It is a community service event.
6. The salute is to the Constitution of the United States and nothing else.
In these times of such division in this country it seems to me to be necessary to remind all that CAP is one family no matter the political leanings of any one individual. The cadets from the Northern Desert Composite Squadron put in hundreds of hours of community service each year. In my opinion, we all should be thanking them for their dedication to serving their community and not criticizing them for wanting to honor the Constitution of the United States of America that so many of our fellow members have chosen to also honor. NO MATTER THEIR POLITICAL BELIEFS!
Member of the NDCS

Thank you, I called for something like this posts back.  However, the political divisions I have been mentioning forbade rational thought in favor of partisan rant blind of the fact.

Thank the Cadets of NDCS from the CAP Officers and Cadets of South Texas for their work in serving their community.  May there service rise above the Lilliputian antics presented here today.

[Major Carrales]

As to the comments that we are supposed to contact the unit for more details - this discussion is based on a public news story, so if nothing else this is a lesson in unintended consequences.

If you go back a few posts, I mentioned that the story might not be accurate in that the Medica sometimes confuses, obfuscates or combines facts sometimes presenting an unclear picture.

Seems to me the News Paper in question may have alterned meaning of the story with the wording.  It is a "public event," the Civil Air Patrol is merely posting the colors.  I've had media do worse.

[Major Carrales]

Somewhere out there, in the vastness of CAPTALK, there is a lonely "LOCK" needing a lovely "THREAD."  Come here, young lovers, this topic is your "LOVER'S LANE."

[Wicky]

Gentlemen:
Please check out Public Law 104
In 2004 Congress passed 108-447 Section 111 dedicating Sept 17 as Constituational Day. In honor of the Constitution being signed.
Sept 17 through 23 as Constitution Week.
Federal Law requires all federal affiliated agencies (including the Air Force and it's associated organizations and education centered organizations to hold a meeting/class/or educational event in honor of the Constituation of the United States of America.
Also, according to the Federal government - The Tea Party is not a political party. It is a congloberation of individuals not affiliated with a political party.

[Short Field]

Nazis and Black Panthers do not equal tea party movements no more than Democrats and Unions equate to Communists or Trostski-ites.

A group studying the Constitution using Skoussen's "5,000 Year Leap" as the primary resource will meet afterward. The discussion group is open to anyone interested, organizers said.

Every time I filled out the paperwork for my security clearance,  they always wanted to know what groups I belonged to.  Membership in the John Birch Society was a red flag on getting a clearance.   My views toward members of the John Birch Society and their supporters was set back then and has not changed since.   Read who Skoussen is and what he has written.

[MikeD]

I'd say that any activity backed by any single political group, even a "we love the US and puppies day", is something we should skip.  I'd have some heartburn and want to pass up the chain an event where a current elected official is going to speak if it's a campaign stop. 

Someone asked about the debates, and if officially recognized as such, I'd say that's another matter entirely and fair game.  It'd be really awesome for us to be doing something for the presidential debates on national TV, and I think hard for anyone to claim we're supporting one party or another. 

As a fed, in our annual ethics training we're taught that appearances count for more then the actual action.  For example, even though a $20 gift annually is legal from a company I'm managing a contract with, some things like a shirt with the project logo, are fine, lunch is iffy, and something like a couple of beers at happy hour (for say closer to $10) could easily be reported in a worse light.  We need to think of how something could be spun not just the facts, before we act at any event.  The less partisan the better, unless both major parties are involved. 

[Wicky]

Our County Commissioners will be in attendance - they are Republican, Democrat and Independent along with the District Judges and the Superior Court Judge.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Everything about this says NO to me, especially since the Tea Party is so controversial right now.

It doesn't matter if it's left, right or centre...we don't have any business as CAP associating with ANY group trying to influence the political process.  It comes way too close to "implied endorsement" by CAP and the Air Force.

Now, if, as a private citizen in civilian clothes, you want to take part in a rally by the Tea Party, Coffee Party (yes, there is one) or Socialist Party USA, as long as you are not advocating harm to public officials or overthrow of the U.S. Government, that is your right as a citizen.

But as CAP we should avoid even the appearance of endorsements of political groups of any kind.

[raivo]

I guess I'm gonna say "judgment call" again (as I usually do.)

Back in the day, as a cadet, we presented the colors at a fundraising dinner for the then-governor. Which is technically a political event, sure, but looking back I still don't think an outsider looking in would have gotten the impression that CAP supported the Republican Party, or the governor's politics.

On the other hand, the Tea Party is a very "controversial" group. There's a number of sane, rational people who are in genuine support of the Constitution, and there's a number of people who believe some, um, very "interesting" things about the Constitution. I'm not going to claim that the entire group is comprised of crazies, but they have enough of a reputation that I would be very hesitant to associate CAP with them.

[FARRIER]

If all members of the local government are attending the first part of this event, what is all the "stressing out" about? Using them as the "canary in the coal mine", they wouldn't go near anything that would taint their reputation.

Respectfully,

[RiverAux]

Gentlemen:
Please check out Public Law 104
In 2004 Congress passed 108-447 Section 111 dedicating Sept 17 as Constituational Day. In honor of the Constitution being signed.
Sept 17 through 23 as Constitution Week.
Federal Law requires all federal affiliated agencies (including the Air Force and it's associated organizations and education centered organizations to hold a meeting/class/or educational event in honor of the Constituation of the United States of America.
Also, according to the Federal government - The Tea Party is not a political party. It is a congloberation of individuals not affiliated with a political party.

I don't think anyone here is saying that it is a bad idea to honor the Constitution.

However, just because the "Tea Party" isn't an actual registered official political party doesn't mean that it isn't a political entity and as such, we should generally stay away. 

[JeffDG]

So...

What if a local group set up a Constitution Day celebration and asked a CAP squadron to post the colours?  We're all fine with that, aren't we?

Now, after making that request and the appropriate approvals, someone from the local branch of ACORN comes up to the organizers and says "Hey, we'd like to sponsor your event, provide some volunteers and some refreshments and such.  Our local muckity-muck would just like the opportunity to address the crowd."

Are you advocating that the CAP squadron renege on their promise to post the colours just because another group decided to help out too?

[Eclipse]

Gentlemen:
Please check out Public Law 104
In 2004 Congress passed 108-447 Section 111 dedicating Sept 17 as Constituational Day. In honor of the Constitution being signed.
Sept 17 through 23 as Constitution Week.
Federal Law requires all federal affiliated agencies (including the Air Force and it's associated organizations and education centered organizations to hold a meeting/class/or educational event in honor of the Constituation of the United States of America.
Also, according to the Federal government - The Tea Party is not a political party. It is a congloberation of individuals not affiliated with a political party.

Irrelevant - the sponsoring organization in this case is not a federal agency, or an "associated organization" - not even sure why you brought it into the conversation.

Our County Commissioners will be in attendance - they are Republican, Democrat and Independent along with the District Judges and the Superior Court Judge.

Irrelevant.

[Eclipse]

Are you advocating that the CAP squadron renege on their promise to post the colours just because another group decided to help out too?

Possibly - an offer to help is not so set in stone if the person you are helping decides to do something which breaks the law, our regs, or the "articles of bad ideas".

[JeffDG]

Are you advocating that the CAP squadron renege on their promise to post the colours just because another group decided to help out too?

Possibly - an offer to help is not so set in stone if the person you are helping decides to do something which breaks the law, our regs, or the "articles of bad ideas".

OK, so the other examples where commercial businesses also sponsor events are bad too?

Small niche volunteer groups, like committees that organize commemorations for Constitution Day, are going to take assistance from whoever gives it to them, so I guess CAP should just say no to avoid potentially being in the same room as someone who might have a political opinion.

[Майор Хаткевич]

In short, yes. We should always ask who else is participating.

[JeffDG]

In short, yes. We should always ask who else is participating.

How often?  If another group signs on the day before an event, do we pull out at the last minute, leaving a worthy community group stuck for relying in good faith upon a commitment that CAP gave?