Radio models added to post 1/1/06 compliance list

[Slim]

Announced last night over the CAP-COMM email list

Hi All,

Following some excellent work by Pete Wharton, we were able to add a number of models to the "post 1/1/2006" Compliant equipment list.  Pete was able to search through other Federal systems and find a number of models that had achieved SPS approval (also known as "J/F-12" approval) and the Redbook allows us to show these models as currently compliant.
Most of these are slightly older Motorola models, plus a couple of Kenwood radios.  I added the J/F-12 numbers to each entry so you will be able to see if that is why the model was evaluated as compliant.

The additions include:

Motorola  models:

The entire "Jedi" series: HT-1000, MT-2000, MTS-2000, JT-1000 portables The Astro Saber portable and Spectra mobile The XTS-1500, 2500, 300 and 5000 portables The MCS-2000 mobile.

Kenwood:  TK-2160 and TK-760

M/A Com MASTR III repeater

EF Johnson 5100 and 5300 series.

Some models that have been asked about that DIDN'T appear to have
J/F-12 numbers were the Datron Guardian series (portable and mobile), the Racal 25 and the Yaesu VX-900.

73 DE Hartley Gardner
Assistant Comm Team Leader

Good news for me, as I own an MT-2000 and an HT-1000, in addition to my Tait mobile, which is still good until it croaks.

Even better is that most of these radios are readily available and reasonably priced on the used market and eBay.  Programming them, on the other hand, might be troublesome unless you have access to the cables and software.

Definitely good news for some of us.

[wuzafuzz]

Question about the radios:  Does anyone know if P25 will ever be required?  I'm a bit hesitant to purchase a radio that isn't P25 compatible, just because I'd hate for it to become obsolete if P25 becomes the standard.  Then again, the non P25 radios tend to be a lot cheaper.

If only I'd joined when my ham radios could have been grandfathered.  Sigh...  Maybe the new radio I get will program up on the ham bands too. 

[JoeTomasone]

Question about the radios:  Does anyone know if P25 will ever be required?  I'm a bit hesitant to purchase a radio that isn't P25 compatible, just because I'd hate for it to become obsolete if P25 becomes the standard.  Then again, the non P25 radios tend to be a lot cheaper.

If only I'd joined when my ham radios could have been grandfathered.  Sigh...  Maybe the new radio I get will program up on the ham bands too. 

Essentially all VHF amateur rigs will have to go bye-bye when we switch to narrowband anyway.

Don't know about your Wing, but ours will not program ham frequencies in. 

[Eclipse]

My advice to my members is not to spend a dime of their money until NB is in place, and all corporate equipment on the shelf has been deployed.

[Slim]

I don't know if P-25 will ever become required for CAP or not.  If it does become mandatory, then I'll be going off the air unless I can work up the coin for a P-25 compliant XTS or Astro Saber.  For a lot of us, P-25 is just not going to be cost permissive.  I've seen XTS-5000s flashed for P-25 going for around $12-1500 on the used market.  No thanks.

I'm just glad to see the additions to the list as it allows me to continue using the gear I already have, without wondering when they're going to sunset.  If you're going to go out and purchase, for what you're going to spend on a used HT-1000 (about $150-200), you'll get a few years out of it anyway, and they are NB compliant, just not P-25.  It would be no different that everyone running out and buying VX-150s when this first started, as they were originally compliant, and priced new at about $150.

BTW, Jordan.  I got your PM.  If I get a chance tonight, I'll look at how I've got mine programmed.  That should help get you started.  If not tonight, then tomorrow for sure.

[Eclipse]

VX-150's were non-compliant the day Narrowband was announced.

No one in CAP should have to buy their own radio equipment, especially considering the amount of money spent recently by the USAF.

We have to get away from this ham-club mentality of "bring-your-own".

If you have a legit need for a radio, your need should be addressed by the TOA and you should requisition the gear from your wing.

[N Harmon]

We have to get away from this ham-club mentality of "bring-your-own". If you have a legit need for a radio, your need should be addressed by the TOA and you should requisition the gear from your wing.

When it comes to ground team equipment pretty much all of it is "bring-your-own". That goes double for ICS staffers plugging into IMU2 networks with their own laptops. So the question I have is why should radios be any different?

[Eclipse]

When it comes to ground team equipment pretty much all of it is "bring-your-own". That goes double for ICS staffers plugging into IMU2 networks with their own laptops. So the question I have is why should radios be any different?

Ground team gear and notebook computers do not fall into a licensing category or compliance channel, they either work or they don't, and certainly can be used outside CAP for a variety of reasons.

GT Gear can be used for camping and other similar organizations.  Notebook computers are rapidly overtaking desktop systems for personal use.

CAP radios are expensive bricks 350+ days of the year, require licensing and may be dropped from compliance at a whim.

NHQ issues hundreds of thousands of dollars of radio and computer equipment each year expressly to relieve the average member from the expense.

Bottom line, why would you want to spend your own money, when there is likely equipment sitting on the shelf waiting for a user? Especially knowing that something you buy may be obsoleted at a whim of the NTIA?

[JoeTomasone]

Bottom line, why would you want to spend your own money, when there is likely equipment sitting on the shelf waiting for a user? Especially knowing that something you buy may be obsoleted at a whim of the NTIA?

Because unless you are a GTL, UDFTL, IC, Comms Officer, or /CC, your chances of being issued Corp equipment is pretty much NIL.

That being said, you definitely do NOT want to buy anything personally now - things are in flux in Comms at the moment.

[wuzafuzz]

I purchased a used Motorola XTS3000 (Model I) on eBay for less than $300.  It's in good condition and is perfect for my needs.  It's narrowband and P25 capable and is unlikely to become obsolete by a new ruling. 

For those who wonder why some would spend their own money on radios, my answer is I prefer the familiarity and reliability of my own gear.  When I was a police officer I had cheap department owned portable radios fail during critical situations.     So I started buying my own radios, as well as other "reasonably" priced gear.  Never had problems again.  I've carried that philosophy into later endeavours, including CAP. 

In this case I sold a few of my ham radios to cover the cost.  Bottom line, I'm a radio geek and I'm OK with buying my own.  Other people will spend more on uniforms than I did on my radio.  To each their own.

[Slim]

I purchased a used Motorola XTS3000 (Model I) on eBay for less than $300.  It's in good condition and is perfect for my needs.  It's narrowband and P25 capable and is unlikely to become obsolete by a new ruling. 

For those who wonder why some would spend their own money on radios, my answer is I prefer the familiarity and reliability of my own gear.  When I was a police officer I had cheap department owned portable radios fail during critical situations.     So I started buying my own radios, as well as other "reasonably" priced gear.  Never had problems again.  I've carried that philosophy into later endeavours, including CAP. 

In this case I sold a few of my ham radios to cover the cost.  Bottom line, I'm a radio geek and I'm OK with buying my own.  Other people will spend more on uniforms than I did on my radio.  To each their own.

Same here.  I originally bought my MT-2000 to use for work (EMS and FD) because I know my own stuff, and I know it'll work when I need it the most.  That the radio would also work for both CAP and HAM freqs was an added bonus; now I only needed one portable.  It's since seen it's work use decline, and is primarily for CAP now, though I also carried it on patrols when in was in the CGAux (programmed all of the common calling and working channels for the group/sector into it).

Good luck with that XTS.  I've got my sights set on one at some point.

[Eclipse]

Members with a personal or professional use for the radio outside CAP take less risk on the expense than those who only use them for CAP.

By all means drop a mortgage payment on something if you want to, but don't complain later if its dropped from the compliant list, or you walk into your Wing DC's office and see a shelf full of radios waiting for users.

[jimmydeanno]

^Yep, I'd never drop my own cash for a CAP radio.

Our wing is kind of weird though..."If you don't use your radios, we're taking them away, we don't have enough."

The next CC call...

"We need to issue out a bunch of radios that are sitting in the closet collecting dust - there's plenty so anyone who wants one..."

I just use the one in whatever CAP vehicle I'm using and if I go on a mission and they want me to have one, they give me one out of the comm cache...done.

[wuzafuzz]

I purchased a used Motorola XTS3000 (Model I) on eBay for less than $300.  It's in good condition and is perfect for my needs.  It's narrowband and P25 capable and is unlikely to become obsolete by a new ruling. 

For those who wonder why some would spend their own money on radios, my answer is I prefer the familiarity and reliability of my own gear.  When I was a police officer I had cheap department owned portable radios fail during critical situations.     So I started buying my own radios, as well as other "reasonably" priced gear.  Never had problems again.  I've carried that philosophy into later endeavours, including CAP. 

In this case I sold a few of my ham radios to cover the cost.  Bottom line, I'm a radio geek and I'm OK with buying my own.  Other people will spend more on uniforms than I did on my radio.  To each their own.

Same here.  I originally bought my MT-2000 to use for work (EMS and FD) because I know my own stuff, and I know it'll work when I need it the most.  That the radio would also work for both CAP and HAM freqs was an added bonus; now I only needed one portable.  It's since seen it's work use decline, and is primarily for CAP now, though I also carried it on patrols when in was in the CGAux (programmed all of the common calling and working channels for the group/sector into it).

Good luck with that XTS.  I've got my sights set on one at some point.

I hope you find one.  eBay has some pretty reasonable deals for those who are interested.  They don't even amount to a 6th of a mortgage payment where I live!  The slightly older radios are even more reasonable.  Mine came from an online store, as opposed to an individual.  Some of the auctions reeked of stolen or misappropriated items, such as radios without serial numbers.  Buyer beware!

[Slim]

Not that I'm trying to justify spending my own money on something, but....

I purchased my MT-2000 in 1994, when they first came out.  I was going to buy a used  Moto Saber from the county (they were in the process of converting to a trunked 800 MHz system), but I liked the features on the MT2K better.  Yeah, it was expensive, accessories (speaker mic, carrying cases, upgraded charger and extra batteries) even moreso, but its been well worth it as I've used it 14 years now with no major maintenance issues.  In fact, the only thing I've had to do to it is replace batteries about once a year.  It's been dropped, it's gone swimming, it's been inside fires, and it keeps on going.  I'd say I've gotten my money's worth out of it.

My HT-1000 was an even better deal.  I rescued it out of a box of portables they were throwing away at work.  Nothing wrong with it that a new battery and reprogramming didn't fix, they just didn't want to take the time to troubleshoot what was wrong with it.

The main problem I have with the TOA put out by national is that it only accounts for one of the three missions: ES.  The old motto for CAP Communications was "The Voice of Command."  Now it's the "Voice of Emergency Services."  Because I'm not a player in ES anymore, I can't have comm assets issued to me.  Yet, communications is just as vital when running a summer encampment as it is a mission.  Wing has a few Johnson portables that can be checked out for these activities, but not nearly as many as we'd need.  So, our senior staff uses VHF, and the ISRs go to cadet staff and senior functions that don't need to use VHF.  Some of us in key positions have to carry two radios. 

So, since CP isn't a vital mission (according to NTC), I can't get a radio issued to me, which means I have to supply my own or take one from the pool.  Since I have my own, that brick can go to someone else.

There are other functions where C² is also important.  At our WAA activity, the coordinator and I were able to keep track of things and communicate around the cemetery only because I thought they might be needed and threw my portables in the truck.  Turned out they were a big help.  C² is important at any activity where two people may be far enough apart that shouting doesn't work.  Yet the only places where the TOA say it's needed is ES, which is why every GTL is supposed to have a mobile, portable and two ISRs issued to them.

Honestly, if I want to take some extra money and pick up a newer radio that would continue to be compliant, what business is it of anyone else's?