Main Menu

ABUs

Started by MadGrak, September 15, 2011, 05:14:12 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

NIN

Logical assumptions aside, guys.

CAP was mentioned as being authorized to wear BDUs (which we are). And "acquire" BDUs (ie. from DRMO, etc)

The memo went on to say who was authorized uniforms with "IFF technologies" and that was basically "AD, Reserves, senior ROTC" etc.

Since CAP was in BDUs, and the ABU was not even mentioned by CAP (let alone the Air Staff or the DoD) nobody thought "We should coordinate this with CAP so if at some later point they want ABUs, this memo doesn't prohibit it.."

No, we were in BDUs.  Unless the Air Staff or the Department of the AF was asking for ABU auth, and there was none in the pipeline, then no reason to make a change.

I also think that memo was not intended to still be in effect 6 years down the road, but rather incorporated into an acquisition reg after a period of time.

No shadowy efforts by anti-CAP forces in the halls of the Pentagon. Just bureaucracy in action.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Luis R. Ramos

QuoteFrom NIN

No shadowy efforts by anti-CAP forces in the halls of the Pentagon. Just bureaucracy inaction.


FTFY (Eliminated the space, should be one word not two.)

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

a2capt

Whatever it is, CAP isn't mentioned. It matters not why, just that it's not.

It is to be, the order needs to be revised, supplemented, or itself done away with.

SARDOC

I agree with NIN, the memo only talks about materials that can be dissementated to which organizations.  I don't read this as a prohibition of us wearing the uniform...just the Air Force can't provide them to us.  If we were to purchase them through AAFES or a Third Party vendor that's a work around as we are responsible for providing our own uniforms anyway.  I think that it's just a convenient excuse for us not to change.

That being said....I'm not vested in this argument either way, as I'm a BBDU type.  I think it looks better and is more appropriate to our mission.

Garibaldi

Where is this memo? I want to see it.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

a2capt

Quote from: NIN on November 28, 2013, 03:46:19 PMI also think that memo was not intended to still be in effect 6 years down the road, but rather incorporated into an acquisition reg after a period of time.
So, we're not the only ones with that problem?

http://www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/2008-001041-Disposition_Policy.pdf

NIN

Quote from: a2capt on November 28, 2013, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: NIN on November 28, 2013, 03:46:19 PMI also think that memo was not intended to still be in effect 6 years down the road, but rather incorporated into an acquisition reg after a period of time.
So, we're not the only ones with that problem?

http://www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/2008-001041-Disposition_Policy.pdf

Spend 5 minutes under the thumb of the DoD... you'll see.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Garibaldi

Quote from: NIN on November 28, 2013, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: a2capt on November 28, 2013, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: NIN on November 28, 2013, 03:46:19 PMI also think that memo was not intended to still be in effect 6 years down the road, but rather incorporated into an acquisition reg after a period of time.
So, we're not the only ones with that problem?

http://www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/2008-001041-Disposition_Policy.pdf

Spend 5 minutes under the thumb of the DoD... you'll see.

Interesting that one paragraph kinda says we can use the DCU and another says no. I say kinda, then I saw where our use was restricted to just a few items.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

VNY

Quote from: a2capt on November 28, 2013, 11:28:27 PMhttp://www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/2008-001041-Disposition_Policy.pdf

Interesting how this DOES allow CAP to get the 3 color desert uniforms - and nobody seems interested at all.

a2capt

Even if they were interested, it's not like they're any more available than the BDUs.

Shuman 14

Quote from: VNY on November 29, 2013, 04:46:33 AM
Quote from: a2capt on November 28, 2013, 11:28:27 PMhttp://www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/2008-001041-Disposition_Policy.pdf

Interesting how this DOES allow CAP to get the 3 color desert uniforms - and nobody seems interested at all.

Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico wings only.  :P
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

TexasCadet

Quote from: VNY on November 29, 2013, 04:46:33 AM
Quote from: a2capt on November 28, 2013, 11:28:27 PMhttp://www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/2008-001041-Disposition_Policy.pdf

Interesting how this DOES allow CAP to get the 3 color desert uniforms - and nobody seems interested at all.

Look at attachment 2A. CAP is authorized to wear 5A, 5B, 5C, 5D, 5V, 5W, and 5X. There is no authorized DBU item for CAP. If we wear authorized to wear the DBU, shouldn't it be authorized?

Quote from: Disposition Policy for U.S. Military Combat Uniforms, Attachment 2A

b. Civil Air Patrol (CAP), an authorized auxiliary unit of the Air Force limited to the NSNs of the PGCs in 5.a, 5.b, 5.c, 5.d, 5.v, 5.w, and 5.x below.


NIN

You guys...  <smh>

Its much simpler than that.  The Acquisition folks broke it down into "old-style uniforms" (BDU/DCU) and "newfangled uniforms" (ie. with "IFF technologies").

BDUs and DCUs fall into the former category, while ACUs/ABUs/et al fall into the latter.

The intent was never to allow CAP to wear DCUs, only that DCUs are in the same essential classification together with BDUs, and that we're allowed to be authorized to wear other uniforms from that classification (ie. "uniforms that do no incorporate IFF technologies").

I never do quite get why its so darn byzantine.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

JK657

Quote from: NIN on November 29, 2013, 06:57:09 PM
You guys...  <smh>

Its much simpler than that.  The Acquisition folks broke it down into "old-style uniforms" (BDU/DCU) and "newfangled uniforms" (ie. with "IFF technologies").

BDUs and DCUs fall into the former category, while ACUs/ABUs/et al fall into the latter.

The intent was never to allow CAP to wear DCUs, only that DCUs are in the same essential classification together with BDUs, and that we're allowed to be authorized to wear other uniforms from that classification (ie. "uniforms that do no incorporate IFF technologies").

I never do quite get why its so darn byzantine.

So what you're saying is that CAP is authorized Multicam  >:D

NIN

Quote from: JK657 on November 29, 2013, 09:51:02 PM
So what you're saying is that CAP is authorized Multicam  >:D

And it was black boots over green due to cost until you came along.  8)

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

TexasCadet

Quote from: NIN on November 29, 2013, 11:07:51 PM
Quote from: JK657 on November 29, 2013, 09:51:02 PM
So what you're saying is that CAP is authorized Multicam  >:D

And it was black boots over green due to cost until you came along.  8)



HOLD IT!! We have a very important question! Would we wear tan patches, Multicam patches, or full-color patches?

Luis R. Ramos

Answered already but worth repeating.

Full-color patches.

Some people here state
QuoteIt does not make sense to wear camo when searching for lost people.

The answer to that is that we become visible in a forest because of all the full-color patches we have!

:P

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

PHall

Quote from: flyer333555 on November 30, 2013, 05:02:43 PM
Answered already but worth repeating.

Full-color patches.

Some people here state
QuoteIt does not make sense to wear camo when searching for lost people.

The answer to that is that we become visible in a forest because of all the full-color patches we have!

:P

Flyer


No, we become visable in a forest because we're wearing the orange vest that we have always been required to wear for over 20 years now.

Amazing how many "experts" forget about that little requirement. :o

TexasCadet

Quote from: PHall on November 30, 2013, 05:54:02 PM
Quote from: flyer333555 on November 30, 2013, 05:02:43 PM
Answered already but worth repeating.

Full-color patches.

Some people here state
QuoteIt does not make sense to wear camo when searching for lost people.

The answer to that is that we become visible in a forest because of all the full-color patches we have!

:P

Flyer


No, we become visable in a forest because we're wearing the orange vest that we have always been required to wear for over 20 years now.

Amazing how many "experts" forget about that little requirement. :o

I remember that requirement. However, how many members go on GT missions everyday? Do two or three full-color patches really make a difference? Most members spend more time at their home squadron. And most squadrons are not inside a forest. So, again I ask. Do two or three full-color patches really make a difference?

Luis R. Ramos

Amazing how many people here answer messages from others tongue-in-cheek or in a funny way then turn on others who answer in the same way!

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer