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ABUs

Started by MadGrak, September 15, 2011, 05:14:12 AM

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Luis R. Ramos

Er, no.

No Campaign Hats for Civil Air Patrol personnel. They are higher-maintenance items than the Service Cap.

The original ones, those made of felt, in the field, if they get wet, they wilt.

You need a Campaign Hat press to keep it nice looking.

You need to protect them from sunlight or they fade and change color.

All these issues were the reasons the US Army decided not to issue them when the decision to expand the Army was made in 1940.

And I have experienced some of those.

As I mentioned in another message, I am a volunteer portraying the US Army soldier in US Parks. I have owned one of those since 2008 or so. I keep it in the conditions it was supposed to be used. Not like DI's of now  who take more care of them.

My Field Hat stays in the back of my car.

The brim is disheveled, no press.

It has faded from the Olive Drab, near brown that it came in to a dark green.

And I have seen a wide discrepancy of crown shapes. Those that have gotten wet, the crown looks like a rocket, that pointy.

Probably no problem with some of the newer materials, but you will see a lot of comments comparing it to the beret's maintenance problem...

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Nuke52

Quote from: NIN on June 04, 2013, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Nuke52 on June 04, 2013, 08:50:00 PM
Okay, not really, but now the next poster really can say that he "read somewhere" that ABUs are on their way!   >:D

Don't make me post the pictures! :)

Go ahead--I dare you!   That would teach me.  :D 
Lt Col
Wilson Awd


68w20

Quote from: MisterCD on June 06, 2013, 01:21:56 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-approves-measure-to-cut-excess-camouflage-patterns/2013/06/05/9c528576-ce12-11e2-ac03-178510c9cc0a_story.html

It mentions 10 patterns currently in use, but I count only 8.  Woodland BDU, UCP, Desert and Woodland MARPAT, Multicam, Green and Blue NWU, and ABU.  Are they counting DCU and a Desert NWU variant of which I'm unaware?

lordmonar

MARPAT and MultiCAMs come in two flavors each.....so there is your 10.

Other then that....this is really a non-issue....and fill fail the floor vote.

The reasoning is "because of fiscal constraints".........but we have already spent the money on the uniforms......it is the start up costs that are so expensive.......so going to a new single camo-pattern uniform is going to cost more money then staying with the status quo.

What they should say......."No changes to the current uniform.....unless it is a coordinated change to a single combat/utility uniform".  In other words....keep what you got now....but in 10 years or so when you are ready change uniforms you must go to  a single camo.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Sapper168

Quote from: 68w10 on June 06, 2013, 03:40:05 PM
Quote from: MisterCD on June 06, 2013, 01:21:56 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-approves-measure-to-cut-excess-camouflage-patterns/2013/06/05/9c528576-ce12-11e2-ac03-178510c9cc0a_story.html

It mentions 10 patterns currently in use, but I count only 8.  Woodland BDU, UCP, Desert and Woodland MARPAT, Multicam, Green and Blue NWU, and ABU.  Are they counting DCU and a Desert NWU variant of which I'm unaware?

The Marines also use a Disruptive Overwhite Snow digital camouflage -  http://www.hyperstealth.com/USMC-Snow-Camouflage/index.html

And the National Counterterrorism Center uses Tactical Assault Camouflage aka TacCam.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_Assault_Camouflage
Shane E Guernsey, TSgt, CAP
CAP Squadron ESO... "Who did what now?"
CAP Squadron NCO Advisor... "Where is the coffee located?"
US Army 12B... "Sappers Lead the Way!"
US Army Reserve 71L-f5... "Going Postal!"

Storm Chaser

I'm not particularly happy that after millions of dollars spent, the military may be getting yet another combat uniform. That being said, I do support one uniform/camouflage pattern for all the services. I never understood this need for each service to spend millions to have their own, especially in this day and age of joint operations and inter-service cooperation. One military, one combat uniform; that's the way to go. Different camouflage patters should only be implemented for specific combat needs.

Of course, once this uniform is approved, we'll probably be getting the "soon to be old" ABUs and will be exactly where we are right now regarding a utility uniform. If all the services end up with the same combat uniform with distinctive insignias, then we should as well. But historically that hasn't been the case.

NorCal21

Quote from: Eclipse on June 04, 2013, 02:50:20 AM
The 500 lb elephant in the room (literally and figuratively), is that by far, the vast majority of CAP "field uniforms" are never, ever, worn
in the field, so discussions that have any focus on those types of issues are meaningless in a CAP context.

I absolutely agree. Giving a tactical reason for any of our uniforms is pointless for the vast majority of CAP situations. Very little field work is ever done in CAP. I'd venture a bet that there's more actual field work in two weeks at NESA (I've attended) than the rest of CAP in an entire year.

NorCal21

Quote from: Duke Dillio on June 04, 2013, 01:12:31 PM

As for the subdued patches, REALLY???


I know you're replying to someone else, but as for me I never said subdued. In the very unlikely case that we wore ABUs or MultiCams in the future than I'd expect the old style subdued BDU patches as they would still stand out pretty well on those uniforms without looking like boy scouts.

I just think that we should have more professional designs on the patches. Full color is fine with me. Like you said... no stupid dog patches. They have their place in the heraldry, but come on now. Do you see child-like patches for any of the military branches? Or other auxiliaries? Or an SDF? No. Heck, even most Boy Scout patches look less childish.

I have seen a move towards more professional appearing patches though. Look at all the wings going to the standard AF wing-design patch. Not only is it uniform, but its also a professional image.

NorCal21

Quote from: MisterCD on June 06, 2013, 01:21:56 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-approves-measure-to-cut-excess-camouflage-patterns/2013/06/05/9c528576-ce12-11e2-ac03-178510c9cc0a_story.html


Well the Democrat Congressman is partially wrong about the services using the same patterns before 2002.

The woodland was pretty much the same save for winter or summer weight.

The desert camo was either the standard you saw with the Marines for instance versus the chocolate chip desert that the Army wore.

The Coast Guard used/uses both the woodland and desert for their PSU uniforms in the field. They also use the ODU.

So, even prior to all of these uniforms today we had at least four. I see the Marines and Army as being reasonable; although, I think that the Army's ACU is a little ridiculous for combat operations. A grew uniform with brown boots? The Navy doesn't need their blue cami's, and why the AF doesn't use the ACU I don't get. None of the AF combat ops were the ABU anyway. They're all wearing Multicams for the most part while in the field.

NorCal21

Quote from: 68w10 on June 06, 2013, 03:40:05 PM
Quote from: MisterCD on June 06, 2013, 01:21:56 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-approves-measure-to-cut-excess-camouflage-patterns/2013/06/05/9c528576-ce12-11e2-ac03-178510c9cc0a_story.html

It mentions 10 patterns currently in use, but I count only 8.  Woodland BDU, UCP, Desert and Woodland MARPAT, Multicam, Green and Blue NWU, and ABU.  Are they counting DCU and a Desert NWU variant of which I'm unaware?

The Coast Guard uses the old woodland and desert cammi's along with an ODU.

MIKE

Mike Johnston

Patterson

Why does the Coast Guard need anything camoflauge?  Anyway, during the past decade, the Air Force actually wore the ACUs before the adoption of the ABU when deploying.  Why did they need to create the ABU? The previous and current Service Chiefs along with the Secretaries of each Service are directly responsible for the enormous DoD costs.  Uniforms are one piece of the oversight and accountability problem in which the military has been allowed to operate without real consequences for so long.

Eclipse

Quote from: Patterson on June 07, 2013, 07:41:50 PM
Why does the Coast Guard need anything camoflauge? 

For that matter, why does the Navy?  (Though they don't wear the NWU aboard ship AFAIK).

"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

Quote from: NorCal21 on June 07, 2013, 05:17:54 PMThe Navy doesn't need their blue cami's, ...

Have you ever talked to the sailors who wear them? Were you in the Navy back when they wore dungarees, and their various replacements?

I can say yes to both. The NWU is a mostly superior uniform. The folks I talk to about it like it. It's easier to maintain, it is more functional in several areas, and it provides a more uniform appearance for a longer period of time. My only personal objection is the no-tuck shirt, but I'd wear it in a heartbeat otherwise.

And for Eclipse, it is worn aboard ship in many areas. Coveralls, or flight deck gear, are worn otherwise. It is the working uniform. What else are they going to wear?
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

NorCal21

Quote from: Patterson on June 07, 2013, 07:41:50 PM
Why does the Coast Guard need anything camoflauge?  Anyway, during the past decade, the Air Force actually wore the ACUs before the adoption of the ABU when deploying.  Why did they need to create the ABU? The previous and current Service Chiefs along with the Secretaries of each Service are directly responsible for the enormous DoD costs.  Uniforms are one piece of the oversight and accountability problem in which the military has been allowed to operate without real consequences for so long.


I'm reading your question as an honest one rather than one making fun of the USCG. ;-p

Coast Guard Port Security Units are deployable USCG special forces. Here's a short bit of information on them. I work with them at CG AIRSTA Clearwater. They are pretty hard core.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Security_Unit

Eclipse

Quote from: SarDragon on June 07, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: NorCal21 on June 07, 2013, 05:17:54 PMThe Navy doesn't need their blue cami's, ...

Have you ever talked to the sailors who wear them?
Yes.  Most like them, generally, and are concerned about falling overboard wearing camouflage.

"That Others May Zoom"

NorCal21

Quote from: Eclipse on June 07, 2013, 08:29:35 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 07, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: NorCal21 on June 07, 2013, 05:17:54 PMThe Navy doesn't need their blue cami's, ...

Have you ever talked to the sailors who wear them?
Yes.  Most like them, generally, and are concerned about falling overboard wearing camouflage.

True. You go overboard wearing those and they'll never see you. Blue water with white chop? Haha.. .good luck.

SarDragon

Ever try to spot someone in the water who is wearing dungarees? It's really not much different.

As for going overboard in the first place, it is not a common thing, and those in danger of doing so in their normal course of duties are usually wearing flotation gear, anyway.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

#259
Quote from: SarDragon on June 07, 2013, 09:00:17 PM
Ever try to spot someone in the water who is wearing dungarees? It's really not much different.

As for going overboard in the first place, it is not a common thing, and those in danger of doing so in their normal course of duties are usually wearing flotation gear, anyway.

I wouldn't necessarily argue either, although saying "the other was bad too", isn't much of an argument.

The point being that the Navy has zero need for a camouflage uniform, and if they do, it should probably have been shades of gray, not blue, and for those
in a ground combat area, MARPAT like their Marine brothers and sisters.

There's reams of data and information about how and why a given pattern was chosen, and none of the reasons, except for the Marines, seem
purely based on function over form.

If science fiction has taught us nothing else, it is that soon we will all be wearing 1-piece jumpsuits in a shiny metallic color (or white), while the military
will primarily be dressed in battle suits over shorts and t-shirts.  So we might as well just accept that and make the necessary adjustments.

"That Others May Zoom"