Cadet Sponsor recieving ribbons

[Timber492]

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this issue.

Is it within the reg's (for what reg's I've read I don't believe it is) for a person listed as a Cadet Sponsor to receive ribbons of any type or kind.  And if listed on eservices as having been awarded; what should be done about it.

Also, how about the same person sitting in on unit meetings and delegating their opinion on how and what the unit does.  Now I'm not saying anything about ideas of others on how to make things better; but more about when in a meeting of sensitive issues and CAP official business. 

Now I might be barking up the wrong tree on this issue; but this is just the tip of the iceberg of what disturbing and frustrating issues that are all going on in our unit.


Thank you in advance to all that can help.

[Short Field]

CAPR 39-2, para 5-1(i):  CSMs will not earn CAP rank, awards, or decorations.

[AirAux]

Sounds like they are more than a sponsor, they are becoming "active".  Send in a request to upgrade them to full membership status.  Normally, there is no extra charge to them until annual renewal..

[jimmydeanno]

5-1. General. Cadet Sponsor Member (CSM) is a membership category established to allow parents, grandparents and guardians of current CAP cadets to assist their unit's cadet program by providing adult supervision, transportation, overnight chaperons, and any other CADET related tasks deemed necessary and proper by the unit commander. A cadet sponsor member is a financial supporter who maintains current membership through payment of annual dues, but does not participate in any capacity except as outlined below.
a. CSMs will pay annual national membership dues (see attachment 1 for actual amount required). They are exempt from paying region, wing, or squadron dues.
b. They receive a specially annotated membership card.
c. They must be assigned to the same unit as their cadet child, grandchild or ward.
d. They must complete Level I and Cadet Protection Program training prior to associating in any way with CAP cadets.
e. They may ride in or drive a corporate vehicle after receiving a CAP motor vehicle operator identification card in accordance with CAPR 77-1 and in support of their approved tasks.
f. They may ride (as a passenger only) on CAP air transportation if available.
g. CSMs may not act as crew members of CAP or privately owned aircraft in support of CAP events or missions.
h. They may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniforms if desired (and approved by unit commander). However, CSMs may not wear the Air Force-style uniform. If they do not wear a uniform, they will wear clothing appropriate for the circumstances and the distinctive nametag.
i. CSMs will not earn CAP rank, awards, or decorations.
j. Their membership stays in effect until their cadet leaves the CAP program for any reason.

Quote from: Timber492 on Today at 01:46:53 PM
Is it within the reg's (for what reg's I've read I don't believe it is) for a person listed as a Cadet Sponsor to receive ribbons of any type or kind.  And if listed on eservices as having been awarded; what should be done about it.

Since Item "D" states they must complete LVL 1, and LVL 1 is recorded in E-Services, the database automatically puts the Membership Ribbon in their record, although, they are not officially awarded the ribbon as shown in item "I".

Also, how about the same person sitting in on unit meetings and delegating their opinion on how and what the unit does.  Now I'm not saying anything about ideas of others on how to make things better; but more about when in a meeting of sensitive issues and CAP official business.

The opening paragraph of the section notes that they can do any other CADET related items as allowed by the unit commander.  Does that mean they COULD provide their opinion on cadet things?  Sure.

If by "sensitive issues" and "CAP official business" you mean membership related items, frequency discussions, ES planning, etc, then it is probably outside their scope of permissions. 

However, if the official business is planning the cadet schedule?  Sure, they can help with that and give their opinion - so long as the unit commander allows it.

We have a few sponsor members in my unit that I frequently ask for advice - after all, they are the parents/relatives of our cadets and usually have some insight into things that I don't get to see.  So, I typically value their opinion when they say, "Can we talk about this?"

[majdomke]

h. They may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniforms if desired (and approved by unit commander). However, CSMs may not wear the Air Force-style uniform. If they do not wear a uniform, they will wear clothing appropriate for the circumstances and the distinctive nametag.

I'd like to know what the "distinctive nametag" is for CSMs in civilian attire?

[Spike]

I'd like to know what the "distinctive nametag" is for CSMs in civilian attire?

It is bright pink with little yellow flashing lights and spins.  I think it says "soccer mom Cadet Sponsor Member"   

I kid.... Seriously, I have never seen a  distinctive nameplate or tag for CSM's. 

[arajca]

Similar to the blazer nametag. Has CAP crest on the right side, with the last name and Sponsor Member.

[Spike]

Similar to the blazer nametag. Has CAP crest on the right side, with the last name and Sponsor Member.

Wow....I am totally in the wrong with one of my squadrons CSM's.  Will adjust this week!  I can't believe I overlooked this. 

[Al Sayre]

It is also probable that a former active member who came back as a Sponsor Member would have their awards etc.  still shown in eServices.

[majdomke]

Is this name tag available though the Hock or Vanguard? I've honestly never seen it.

[Timber492]

 Thank you for all of the information on this issue.  It clarifies some of the questions that I had with issues.  Unfortunately, it seems like the reg's make it available for the unit commander to choose to whether or not they have to follow the reg's or not.  Maybe this is wrong from me to think this way, but that is definitely the way things are portrayed in our unit.


I have another question that might apply to other threads, but since I'm here I'll ask it here.

When it comes to advancing from Senior Member status to LT2; does the 6 months in-grade time frame start counting once a person completes Lv1 (ex. Lv1 completed on 1/1/09, LT2 promotion recommendation is available on 6/1/09)

Or does the 6 months in grade start counting from the time of your listed joined date? (Ex. joined 1/1/09 and LT2 promotion recommendation available on 6/1/09) but with the LV1 only being completed will the LT2 promotion be considered.

I hope I asked this question correctly. 

[majdomke]

6 months from time your name shows up in eServices plus Level One completion

[Timber492]

Thank you, straight forward and to the point;  I like that.

[davedove]

6 months from time of Level One completion

I will have to disagree with that.  The CAPR 35-5, figure 2, specifically says "6 months as senior member."  One becomes a senior member upon entry at national, not when Level I is completed.

Now, as always, this is not automatic.

[arajca]

Is this name tag available though the Hock or Vanguard? I've honestly never seen it.

When as CSM joins, their nametag is sent directly to them by National.

[jimmydeanno]

^Yep, I agree.  6 Months and Completion of Level 1 will get you 2d Lt [Commander approval, yada, yada, etc]

That means you join, the clock starts ticking.  During that 6 months if you happen to complete Level 1 and choose a specialty track, yada, yada, you get to when the 6 month time hits, voila, you're a 2d Lt.

[brasda91]

6 months from time of Level One completion

I will have to disagree with that.  The CAPR 35-5, figure 2, specifically says "6 months as senior member."  One becomes a senior member upon entry at national, not when Level I is completed.

Now, as always, this is not automatic.

You beat me to it.

6 months from the time their name is recorded at National.  If you look at a Form 2, there is block to enter their Current Grade and Date of Current Grade.  Their Current Grade will be "Senior Member" and the date will be when National entered them into the system.  That info is always available in eServices.  It is expected that during the initial 6 months they will complete Level I.

[Timber492]

Ok, see now that is how I understood the reg. 

But I had been told by our personnel dept. that it was not till I had completed my LV1 that the time started counting. 

Which is non-the-less frustrating; because I had completed all of the requirements nearly a 1 1/2 months earlier than what personnel had put it in the computer of completion.  So if that is the case, I or anyone else for that matter would have to wait an extra month for the promotion simply because someone else took their time getting the info into the system.

As for the "not automatically given" I do understand as one must complete the requirements to be considered for the promotion.

[Cecil DP]

Ok, see now that is how I understood the reg. 

But I had been told by our personnel dept. that it was not till I had completed my LV1 that the time started counting. 

Which is non-the-less frustrating; because I had completed all of the requirements nearly a 1 1/2 months earlier than what personnel had put it in the computer of completion.  So if that is the case, I or anyone else for that matter would have to wait an extra month for the promotion simply because someone else took their time getting the info into the system.

As for the "not automatically given" I do understand as one must complete the requirements to be considered for the promotion.

The "not automatically" means that the squadron commander has to recommend you for appointment to the next grade. This can be done either through E-services or on a CAPF-2 sent to National. E-services is instataneous.

P.S. Show your personnel officer the reg, it can be downloaded or printed off the National web site.

[D2SK]

So if that is the case, I or anyone else for that matter would have to wait an extra month for the promotion simply because someone else took their time getting the info into the system.

A whole extra month?  That's a lot of back pay and benefits you are due.  So you had to wait, what...four extra meetings before you could wear your gold bar?  Yeah, I can see where that would be a huge issue.