Tips for a large transfer

[a2capt]

Since it was obvious that no one from the squadron could become unit commander, our former commander, whom we all would have liked to keep, applied for command of another area squadron that had the position open.

As a side note, that's probably not the intention of the new directive (to you, all I've ever known are 3/4 year term limits), but I'm sure flop/flopping commanders is a stretch.

What many cadets did not know, was that our meeting place was contingent upon the commander.  When the commander moves on, we have to find a new meeting place.

Well, you know this now. Don't get suckered into following him to a new meeting location. As for the greater intent, that really shouldn't have been "allowed" in the first place, be it as it may, that was a ticking timebomb that no one, not even the commander knew when it might precisely go off. His job could have changed, a health issue taken him out, all kinds of things. The lease on the meeting space should have never been approved by Wing.

Now we have no commander and no meeting place, and we were already meeting in the middle of nowhere which left zero nearby alternatives.

For EXACTLY THIS SCENARIO.

After a couple weeks, TNWG did bring in a commander for our squadron, who located a meeting place for us in a large church about 15 miles away from the current meeting location.  What we find out now, is that most of the members were driving from the opposite direction (myself included) and simply refused to drive any farther.

Again, this is a life lesson. A CAP unit is an investment from all angles. The Wing, NHQ, the local members that run it. A bit later in the thread you say that this unit got Quality Cadet Program for the three years. That's a sign of a well functioning unit. But obviously it wasn't good enough, with the meeting location tied to the commander, look at the mess that caused.

We are afraid that it looks like we came in to take over, which is not at all what we want to do.

..and that is almost what you have done. Through no actual intention other than growing the unit, your group will influence this unit. The unit certainly will need more staff, possibly even three flights of cadets from all that, at least two. Where are these cadet staff people going to come from? The six that were there, already doing what they needed?

We want to join the squadron that was already established.

As I eluded to, it is no longer the same, and a new/same commander to some of you? From 6 to 40?

At our first meeting together, it was determined that the current staff (both cadet and senior) would remain in their current positions until they voluntarily stepped down.  We made it clear that we are all going to follow their rules, keep their traditions, and do as the staff wishes.

..and their rules, traditions, procedures, while I would hope were made to be flexible as the unit grew, will undoubtedly not always work with this kind of growth spurt. I say it again, like it or not, you all are involved. It is now all of you that are responsible for the continued growth of that unit.

If anything, the very first "battle" you may have is proving that the collective bunch of you won't just blow the coop if some other "favorable" change comes along. After all, there's a track record already established.

What can we do to make this big change as seamless as possible?  What should we be doing so that it doesn't look like we came in to take over, but rather to be a part of their existing squadron?  The last thing we want to do is run people off.

Seamless? If it's seamless, it's setup to fail. The very structure of that unit has changed significantly in a very short period of time. It sounds like you've already had a bit of a planning meeting, but like it or not, as I said previously, you all don't want to "intrude", but you must. You don't want to take over, but you need to form a stronger foundation for those leaders and staffers that are there now.

If there is anyone there that has held a particular job for a while and wants to change, give them first shot at something new, like if you're going to add a Cadet PAO, or CAC representative, now that there are many more to choose from, let them explore new options, and the newcomers fill in the ranks or expand into other areas that were not needed before, but surely are now.

This is how you won't run people off. By allowing them to take advantage of the "change" before anyone else does.

The first thing a Commander should do is realize they will need to be replaced someday. Keep an eye on for a replacement, and any "ties" should be exposed up front, always.

[RiverAux]

1st unit = 30 cadets, 7 seniors active
2nd unit = 6 active members
Both units close enough that members could fairly easily participate in either of them.

Seems like this situation was ripe for folding up one squadron into another no matter what was going on with the squadron commander. 

[tn485]

Thank you to a2capt for addressing every point I made in such a way that I can read and understand the whole picture.  And for answering my original question.

You know it's a bad day when your group commander, or one from the same wing at least, decides to show up in the process of you bashing unit commanders or national HQ. 

Not bashing unit, group, wing, or region commanders, and I haven't said anything here that I wouldn't like to discuss with Gen. Carr, should I ever have the chance to do so in the proper manner.

Thank you to the rest of you for all the input I have received.  I apologize to all of you (Eclipse in particular) for the tone that was taken earlier.

Lastly, I will add, I never asked for opinions on what the commander should have done, I am asking what should I do now.  Attending the old unit is no longer an option, because I flat out refuse to drive over an hour each way.

[Eclipse]

I apologize to all of you (Eclipse in particular) for the tone that was taken earlier.

Accepted but not necessary.

Lastly, I will add, I never asked for opinions on what the commander should have done, I am asking what should I do now.  Attending the old unit is no longer an option, because I flat out refuse to drive over an hour each way.

You did it happily for two years, but now "refuse"?

[tn485]

Lastly, I will add, I never asked for opinions on what the commander should have done, I am asking what should I do now.  Attending the old unit is no longer an option, because I flat out refuse to drive over an hour each way.

You did it happily for two years, but now "refuse"?

Sorry, I must have missed something.  I did it happily for two years, it was about a 50 minute drive.  When all this happened, the squadron meeting location was moved another 15 miles farther away.  It would take significantly longer to get there.

[Eclipse]

Well if the new unit is closer, then especially as a cadet, you should participate where best you can.

Just see this situation as it really is, with no filter, and be prepared if people at the former squadron get their noses out of joint.

As River said, it sounds like this is a situation where two units should have been combined a long time ago.  With that said,
anyone looking in from the outside would probably agree that instead of forcing new blood into the system, the term limits
were effectively circumvented by simply changing the charter number of the members and having them meet elsewhere.

[a2capt]

In Southern California, another 15 miles on the freeway can be a blip or death, depending on the time of day, and commuting trends. We actually get quite a bit of members from far away, that live closer to other units, at ours, partially because of our program, but also because we are "reverse" of the commute and it's easier to get to us in the evening hours.

OTOH, a rural located unit, or one that you must use surface streets to get to, can be a chore. When I visit Kansas City in the Summer, and I pick a unit to go to, I've driven longer because of the freeway, but it's quicker than the KC Metro area's massive wad of 35 MPH grid streets. Something I'm not used to, because quite the majority of even semi-major roads in the Southern California area are posted 45 to 55MPH. It's not hard to get around here, and it's not the typical grid due to terrain, so a lot of traffic is funneled onto less roads. Perhaps .. that's why.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Another 15 minutes? Why does this commander have a need for command? He could have stayed at the unit, mentored the new commander, kept the meeting place, and kept the biggest unit in the wing intact. Sounds quote selfish to me.

[tn485]

Well if the new unit is closer, then especially as a cadet, you should participate where best you can.

Just see this situation as it really is, with no filter, and be prepared if people at the former squadron get their noses out of joint.

Yes Sir!

Another 15 minutes? Why does this commander have a need for command? He could have stayed at the unit, mentored the new commander, kept the meeting place, and kept the biggest unit in the wing intact. Sounds quote selfish to me.

Not 15 Minutes, 15 Miles.

[a2capt]

Another 15 minutes? Why does this commander have a need for command? He could have stayed at the unit, mentored the new commander, kept the meeting place, and kept the biggest unit in the wing intact. Sounds quoite selfish to me.

Does the new language say "no moving to deputy" for a previous CC?

15 Miles can equate to 15 minutes if it's unobstructed freeway miles, and in some vehicles, another $4 each way in costs, as some eat that much more gas, etc. It adds up. Everything factors in.

[Eclipse]

Another 15 minutes? Why does this commander have a need for command? He could have stayed at the unit, mentored the new commander, kept the meeting place, and kept the biggest unit in the wing intact. Sounds quote selfish to me.

+1

[Eclipse]

Another 15 minutes? Why does this commander have a need for command? He could have stayed at the unit, mentored the new commander, kept the meeting place, and kept the biggest unit in the wing intact. Sounds quoite selfish to me.

Does the new language say "no moving to deputy" for a previous CC?

No, nor does it preclude someone from being a commander at that unit again, they simply cannot succeed themselves.

[Private Investigator]

You don't get it.  He had a huge amount of support from senior members, cadets, and cadet's parents.  The people that were willing to step up and fill the position were denied.  If you know everything (without having been here to see what our situation is like), maybe you should just come on out here and fix it yourself?

You don't get it. Do you know what happen at the New Orleans Squadron in 1955? Pear Falls Cadet Squadron in 1972? Mansfield (TX) Squadron in 1995? Petticoat Junction Composite SQ in 2001?

You want to reinvent the wheel? You think you are the only one in the country? Join the boy scouts or stick with little league because you are 98.44% wrong and if you pay attention in college one day you will know what being 98.44% wrong is   

[tn485]

You don't get it.  He had a huge amount of support from senior members, cadets, and cadet's parents.  The people that were willing to step up and fill the position were denied.  If you know everything (without having been here to see what our situation is like), maybe you should just come on out here and fix it yourself?

You don't get it. Do you know what happen at the New Orleans Squadron in 1955? Pear Falls Cadet Squadron in 1972? Mansfield (TX) Squadron in 1995? Petticoat Junction Composite SQ in 2001?

You want to reinvent the wheel? You think you are the only one in the country? Join the boy scouts or stick with little league because you are 98.44% wrong and if you pay attention in college one day you will know what being 98.44% wrong is   

Nope, I don't.  But I do know that 94.43% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[lordmonar]

I'd ask why the commander who clearly failed at the first squadron was allowed to assume command of another squadron. "Luck" had nothing to do with this.  The former Commander's
lack of the ability to read a calendar and do the requisite transition and contingency planning is the issue.  Further the term limits are not intended to be "Musical Commander Chairs".

The Chaplain could certainly step down as that role and assume command, happens all the time.  That was just a handy excuse to not do it.

And as to those who "voted with their feet" - the bell is tolling for all of them.

This is why I was against term limits.   Squadron A is doing fine, Wing Commander has no problem with the commander......but the "reg says" you must step down after 4 years....now Squadron A falls apart.

As for the "term limits were not for musical commanders".......again......now we are following the letter of the reg  Squadorn A has a new commander and Squadron B has a new commander.  The Wing/Group commanders are putting round pegs into round holes......but you are saying that is not what is intened......what exactly was intended by the terms limits?

Sqauadron A and B both get experinced leaders with freash idead (at least from their point of view).
Those ready and willing to step up and take command were given the opportunity to do so.
But because we arbitratily decided that this was a good idea we now have a squadron failing and some members simply decideing to quit.

I also question you assessment of performance of the commander as a "fail".    By what objective criteria do you say he failed? 

[Eclipse]

Squadron A was clearly not "doing well" since they were one person away from folding.

[Майор Хаткевич]

We had our unit commander move up to group before his term was over. We didn't have any issues with the transition. We had a plan in place.

[tn485]

I'd ask why the commander who clearly failed at the first squadron was allowed to assume command of another squadron. "Luck" had nothing to do with this.  The former Commander's
lack of the ability to read a calendar and do the requisite transition and contingency planning is the issue.  Further the term limits are not intended to be "Musical Commander Chairs".

The Chaplain could certainly step down as that role and assume command, happens all the time.  That was just a handy excuse to not do it.

And as to those who "voted with their feet" - the bell is tolling for all of them.

This is why I was against term limits.   Squadron A is doing fine, Wing Commander has no problem with the commander......but the "reg says" you must step down after 4 years....now Squadron A falls apart.

As for the "term limits were not for musical commanders".......again......now we are following the letter of the reg  Squadron A has a new commander and Squadron B has a new commander.  The Wing/Group commanders are putting round pegs into round holes......but you are saying that is not what is intended......what exactly was intended by the terms limits?

Squadron A and B both get experienced leaders with fresh ideas (at least from their point of view).
Those ready and willing to step up and take command were given the opportunity to do so.
But because we arbitrarily decided that this was a good idea we now have a squadron failing and some members simply deciding to quit.

+1

Thank you.  I'm glad somebody agrees with me.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The issue isn't the regulations. The issue is a commander more interested in the title than the people.

[abdsp51]

Term limits if used properly can be a good thing.  This is why Commanders need to start training and grooming their replacements when they take office.  Good commanders are hard to come by in any organization especially this one.  However he failed in having the meeting place tied to him and there was no plan in place for when he left. 

Loyalty serves it's purpose but make sure that you are not blindly loyal. 

What I see here is people not wanting to adapt to the change or figure out a solution and gave up.