Oaths of Office

[Major Carrales]

NHQ has just mandated new oaths to be sworn by all CAP Officers upon initial membership, all promotions, and at change of command. This is effective immediately.

Can anyone find proof of this?  So far, I have not seen any memo, policy letter, etc. stating that NHQ has mandated new oaths for all CAP officers. 

Source: www.capblog.typepad.com. 

Have you rejoined CAP yet?  If not, why are all these things such an issue to you?  I puzzle?

[Eagle400]

Have you rejoined CAP yet?  If not, why are all these things such an issue to you?  I puzzle?

You put a question mark where a period should go.  That's funny. 

I don't know, Major Carrales.  Do you puzzle?

Just kidding with you, sir.

Okay - here is why I'm so inquisitive about things affecting CAP on CAPTalk and CadetStuff:

Things have changed in CAP since I left.  I'd like to stay current on things that have changed so I'm not out-of-the-loop regarding the changes when I decide to return to CAP.

Now that you know why I am so inquisitive, there's no need to be puzzled about this anymore.      

[Major Carrales]

Does this mean your a joining...or not?

There are really only three reasons people that are not in an organization keep current on it without joining...1) vitriolic scorn 2) destructive vitriolic scorn or 3) desire to rejoin.


Of which of the above are you afflicted?

[Eagle400]

Does this mean your a joining...or not?

I am joining, just not tomorrow.  I want to get my undergraduate studies out of the way first.

There are really only three reasons people that are not in an organization keep current on it without joining...1) vitriolic scorn 2) destructive vitriolic scorn or 3) desire to rejoin.

I have a desire to rejoin CAP.  I certainly do NOT have any vitriolic scorn, as you say.  However, there are more reasons than the ones you listed as to why people not in organizations keep current on them without joining.  Can anyone say research? 

By the way, my purpose in life is NOT to keep you happy.  Why should I care what you think about my lack of membership in CAP?  I can still count on one hand all the people on CAPTalk and CS who judge what I say based on my status as a former member.  I don't care about what those few people think, either.

Now please, let's get back to the topic.       

[Eagle400]

I think that automatically instituting oaths for CAP officers without input from the membership was a major snafu by general Pineda.  This seems to be an infamous trait of his - institute something first, then (maybe) get input from the membership about what they think.  Look at what happened with the TPU!

Just another thing to add to the long list of "Things I would never do if I were National Commander."  

[Major Carrales]

BUPKES!

[Eagle400]

Wow.  Only one reply in 10 hours?  What I said must have been a show-stopper!

Doesn't anyone have more to add about this Oath stuff?  I think CAP officers should just keep it simple and use the same oath that cadets use. 

Does anyone have a problem with that? 

[jimmydeanno]

Wow.  Only one reply in 10 hours?  What I said must have been a show-stopper!

site was down...

[Eagle400]

Oh, okay.  I'll put away the soap box. 

[SAR-EMT1]

Has anyone been able to confirm this rumor as acurate yet?
Can any tell me -if real- if this 'oath' has a revisions/appeals process?
Wonder what the "RealMilitary" / USAF-CAP think of this thing.

[ColonelJack]

Has anyone been able to confirm this rumor as acurate yet?
Can any tell me -if real- if this 'oath' has a revisions/appeals process?
Wonder what the "RealMilitary" / USAF-CAP think of this thing.

I'll go out on a limb here and speculate that, as in the case of the corporate uniforms, they really don't give a hoot one way or the other.

Any oaths sworn by CAP members would have the same legal effect as swearing an oath to topple trees or leap tall buildings in a single bound -- in other words, none at all.  Just a kind of feel-good thing, a "we're part of the team too" thing.

I've seen no policy letters or anything like that; the above is my humble opinion, free and (doubtless) worth what it cost.  Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Jack

[sparks]

That's correct, a feel good measure. Some want more structure and organization in the senior program plus more respect and military order etc. They see the oath as a step in that direction. I don't think it will do anything beyond highten the initial curiosity of the one saying it. If that person is inclined to be a loyal person the it will happen. It has the same efect as the safety pledge.

The senior program already has structure loosely based on military principles. Replacing the current program with a rigid military structure would be a mistake. That would satisfy a few but chase aware many others whodidn't join CAP to be part of the USAF "Lite".

I think all of us are yearning for the same thing, clear missions and direction from the top. "Missions for America" tells me nothing. Frequent  uniform changes and giving the supply system to a nonresponsive contractor doesn't help either. It tells me top management is disconnected and/or doesn't give a crap, remember the race car. 

I hope the BoG sees the light but I also am trying to get the magic "Powerball" ticket too.

[Eagle400]

The senior program already has structure loosely based on military principles. Replacing the current program with a rigid military structure would be a mistake. That would satisfy a few but chase aware many others whodidn't join CAP to be part of the USAF "Lite".

I don't understand.  CAP makes it clear that it is the USAF Auxiliary.  People join the Coast Guard Auxiliary to be part of the Coast Guard "Lite", so why shouldn't CAP be the same way?  This is one reason why CAP is one of the two U.S. Military auxiliaries and is, by and large, the junior of the two. 

I think all of us are yearning for the same thing, clear missions and direction from the top. "Missions for America" tells me nothing. Frequent  uniform changes and giving the supply system to a nonresponsive contractor doesn't help either. It tells me top management is disconnected and/or doesn't give a crap, remember the race car.

Very true.  It is my opinion that defining clear missions, stopping the frequent uniform changes, etc. is more important than establishing an oath. 

First you FIX THE ORGANIZATION, then establish the oath.  Jeebus!   

I hope the BoG sees the light but I also am trying to get the magic "Powerball" ticket too.

I doubt they will see the light anytime soon. 

[cap53]

Hi Everyone,
Sorry to throw cold water on this topic, but after talking to a friend at HQ.  I have found we don't have any oaths YET.  They are working on one first for commanders, then promotions and lastly new members as part of a mentor program that will be reflected on a new membership application. 
Things didn't look like they were put together quite right.  You don't need to worry right now.  When it does happen there will probably be a bit of fanfare.

[RogueLeader]

Hi Everyone,
Sorry to throw cold water on this topic, but after talking to a friend at HQ.  I have found we don't have any oaths YET.  They are working on one first for commanders, then promotions and lastly new members as part of a mentor program that will be reflected on a new membership application. 
Things didn't look like they were put together quite right.  You don't need to worry right now.  When it does happen there will probably be a bit of fanfare.

You want US to just drop a five page thread Why

[Major Carrales]

Hi Everyone,
Sorry to throw cold water on this topic, but after talking to a friend at HQ.  I have found we don't have any oaths YET.  They are working on one first for commanders, then promotions and lastly new members as part of a mentor program that will be reflected on a new membership application. 
Things didn't look like they were put together quite right.  You don't need to worry right now.  When it does happen there will probably be a bit of fanfare.

Then explain why it has come to me from Region, Wing and Group?  These are offical channels.

Someone needs to clear this up...officially beofre this day ends.

[SeattleSarge]

The senior program already has structure loosely based on military principles. Replacing the current program with a rigid military structure would be a mistake. That would satisfy a few but chase aware many others whodidn't join CAP to be part of the USAF "Lite".

I agree completely...

Not to beat this to death, but remember USAF (previous posting) says CAP is not a military organization.  It's very clear.  We are not subject to the UCMJ and we have no military status with the Department of Defense.  We are even admonished to ask for "military discounts" from commercial vendors.

Our Commanding General cannot change this organization's status.  Regardless of oaths, uniforms, or internal policies and regulations. 

If "Joe Tentpeg" wants to join a military lite organization, we should steer them to one of the State Defense Forces. 

[ncc1912]

The senior program already has structure loosely based on military principles. Replacing the current program with a rigid military structure would be a mistake. That would satisfy a few but chase aware many others whodidn't join CAP to be part of the USAF "Lite".

Sparks, I agree with you in part.  Although, a little more rigidity wouldn't hurt.  To us and our posterity, it would behoove CAP to place more emphasis on recruiting professional volunteers with mission essential skills than amateur "wanna-bes" (never liked that term) who are or are not joining the USAF "Lite". 

I don't think that an oath of office is really all that important to those ends, but I think that it may plant a seed of obligation in the minds of those with integrity who may be walking a fine line of commitment and just need a nudge.

Contrary to what our regulations and manuals would like us to believe, we do not really have the training capability that we need to bring our new members up to speed in a efficient and sufficient manner.  What does that leave you with?  Old amateurs teaching new amateurs old haphazard ways of doing things through "on-the-job" training under the auspice, "That is the way it has always been done."

I long for the day that CAP is looked upon reverently by those outside our organization (and within) with any clue about our history or what we do, but it is going to take the thought and commitment of those of us within to help change the waning perceptions.  It is going to take the actions of our "leadership" to evolve CAP into a 21st century organization with a 21st century mission and clear and distinct goals.  Otherwise, the oath and everything we currently take seriously is going to become meaningless, because we will have become obsolete.

Are the oaths (whatever form they take) really going to improve all this?  Probably not.  It is going to take leaders who are committed to the organization and not their own political agenda or legendary aspirations.  Uniform changes, more ribbons, vehicle paint schemes, more ribbons, specialty badges, more ribbons, reverse flag patches, more ribbons and new oaths reek of a hound marking his firehydrant rather than leading his pack and hunting his game.

First you FIX THE ORGANIZATION, then establish the oath.  Jeebus!   

Indeed, but we are really waisting our time, because we are all just "preaching to the choir."

[cap53]

The information was imparted to me by a high staff member on the full time staff at NHQ when I questioned if the Oaths were ral or not.  I really don't care one why or another.  Just will not use them until they are published from NHQ.  Do as you what.

[Major Carrales]

The information was imparted to me by a high staff member on the full time staff at NHQ when I questioned if the Oaths were ral or not.  I really don't care one why or another.  Just will not use them until they are published from NHQ.  Do as you what.

I have submitted the question to the Knowledge base.