Goodbye to an NCO

[FW]

It was an Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Manpower and Reserve Affairs (SAF/MR), who said it in a speech, and it was a point being made, not a slip-up. It seems to me it was five or so years ago. Somewhere I have (or had) the reference. CAP falls under the SAF/MR and it was the most recent one that signed off on the changes to the CAP NCO Corps.

That rhetoric started popping up in the 2006-2007 era - certainly a lot of talk about it on here around then.

Sounded good in speeches, looked good on T-Shirts, amounted to exactly (( * ))...

I started hearing this right after 9-11.  Our readiness and contribution to the efforts of many members gave us a shot in the ego.  It was a marked improvement after the events of 1999. 

I don't know how the guys at the Pentagon feel about us, however we have 4 members of the BoG which are appointed by the SECAF. One of those members is the 1st AF commander.  I would hope that means something.

Should CAP members be eligible for AF civilian awards? That's a good question, and should be looked at by those who can make a difference.  Would it help us retain members? It may.  I really don't think this has been part of "the conversation" until now.  Maybe someone will investigate the possibility of it happening.  I think it would be a good thing...  YMMV

[skymaster]

Anybody know if CAP is still given space in THE BOOK? Seems to me that if the org is getting space there, it should be getting at least a mention to all airmen at some point....

Well, CAP did get a mention in the 1959 edition of The Air Force Blue Book.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I am well aware of different deployment types as that is my day to day job.  People want to cry about being recognized as AF civilian when not even in the same category they can do more. 

The awards described are for AF civilians employed by the AF, which CAP does not fall under.  If folks want that recognition then they can step up and do whats needed for it.

Leave it to friend abdsp51 to provide opposition and admonition to "step up and do what's needed," without describing what is needed.

When we are on AFAM's, I would say that we are "employed by the Air Force."

S'funny, you once accused me erroneously of not having anything good to say about CAP or the Air Force, when it seems you do not have much good to say about CAP, from an AF POV.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Anybody know if CAP is still given space in THE BOOK? Seems to me that if the org is getting space there, it should be getting at least a mention to all airmen at some point....

Well, CAP did get a mention in the 1959 edition of The Air Force Blue Book.

I spy with my little eye a snowflake with white shoelaces.

[Fubar]

Should CAP members be eligible for AF civilian awards?

Do they give awards to contractors? That's the closest analogy I can think of. If they do, then there's no reason CAP members wouldn't qualify.

[Eclipse]

CAP members aren't ever civilian employees, even a little, and it has its own awards and decorations.

It doesn't qualify and doesn't need to.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It doesn't qualify and doesn't need to.

Why and why?

I know we have our own decs, but some of those could be replaced with more-specific AF civilian awards...example: the various Medals of Valour could be replaced/supplemented by the Civilian Air Medal for flight-specific deeds.

That would be in keeping with our history, since we were once eligible for the military Air Medal.

Again, I know "we're not them," but CGAux members are eligible for certain noncombat CG decorations, in addition to specific Auxiliary awards.

[Eclipse]

It doesn't qualify and doesn't need to.

Why and why?

When and why what?  We don't qualify because we don't meet the primary criteria any more then a forward-deployed AAFES
employee can receive the SMV.

[Storm Chaser]

I know we have our own decs, but some of those could be replaced with more-specific AF civilian awards...example: the various Medals of Valour could be replaced/supplemented by the Civilian Air Medal for flight-specific deeds.

That would be in keeping with our history, since we were once eligible for the military Air Medal.

We were also once involved in combat support operations. That's no longer the case.

Again, I know "we're not them," but CGAux members are eligible for certain noncombat CG decorations, in addition to specific Auxiliary awards.

The CGAux supports most actual Coast Guard missions, with the exception of military and law enforcement operations. That's not the case with CAP and the Air Force. Other than providing a potential pool of recruits, how does Cadet Programs directly support Air Force operations? What's the tangible impact that Aerospace Education has on the Air Force today? Even within Emergency Services, only SAR directly supports the AFRCC, which is a relatively small unit within the Air Force.

Our support of Disaster Relief, Homeland Security, Counterdrugs, etc. greatly benefit our nation, but for the most part have little impact on Air Force operations. I submit that if we want to have a closer relationship with the Air Force as its Auxiliary, we should continue to expand our support of Air Force operations and non-combat/humanitarian missions.

[sardak]

AFI 36-1004, "The Air Force Civilian Recoginition Program" defines who is eligible for USAF civilian awards, who is considered an employee, which awards are for non-employees, and the criteria for the awards. In answer to a question from someone else, contractors are ineligible for USAF civilian awards.

Mike

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We were also once involved in combat support operations. That's no longer the case.

Could it be the case again?  I don't mean mounting Miniguns on C172s, but maybe assisting AFRES/ANG in mobilisation when they get called-up, similar to what SDF's do to help out their National Guard units.

The CGAux supports most actual Coast Guard missions, with the exception of military and law enforcement operations.

My experience as a former Auxie says that a lot of that depends on how close you were to a CG station/CGAS.  Now you also have to go through an additional security clearance if you want to augment (colloquially called an AuxieAugie).

I submit that if we want to have a closer relationship with the Air Force as its Auxiliary, we should continue to expand our support of Air Force operations and non-combat/humanitarian missions.

And I am with you 1,000% on that.  The question is: how do we go about that?

[Shuman 14]

Try paragraphs 1.3.1, 1.3.2, 1.3.3 and 1.3.4.

OK, my bad thank you.

1.3.1. CAP Grade. The Air Force through the CAP-USAF/CC has authority over the CAP grade structure. CAP uses military style grade for its membership at the discretion and approval of the CAP-USAF/CC. CAP officer or noncommissioned officer grade does not confer commissioned or noncommissioned officer status. CAP personnel have no authority over members of the armed forces. CAP members who are active, reserve, and retired members of the armed forces will be treated according to their CAP status when acting in a CAP capacity.

Still does not address the input for change by CAP. For example, I truly doubt anyone at CAP-USAF came in and said "Hey let's change the whole structure of the CAP NCO Corps today!" As we all know, that was the outgoing CAP Commander's pet project. A pet project developed by CAP, for CAP... approved by CAP-USAF. So if a future CAP commander came up with a project to do away with Officer Rank and to convert everyone to a Warrant Officer, would CAP-USAF be as equally receptive? As Eclipse likes to point out, there really no need to change the current NCO structure, yet they did. Someone sold CAP-USAF on the idea and they signed off on it.

1.3.2  Uniform Wear and Personal Appearance. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP or Air Force-style uniforms IAW CAP regulations (civilian clothing may be worn when specific missions dictate). CAP-USAF/CC controls the configuration of the Air Force-style uniform worn by CAP members and must approve of CAP uniforms to ensure they remain sufficiently distinct from Air Force-style uniforms.

Again, it does not address input. So who came up with grey/whites, CAP-USAF or CAP? Somehow I just don't see a group of Air Force Officers and Senior NCOs on a MACOM Staff coming up with their version of a Hornitos Tequila commercial. (Grey trousers? Any Grey trousers.) Most likely a CAP input signed off on CAP-USAF.

1.3.3 Air Force-Style Uniform Wear and Grooming Standards. CAP members who choose to wear the Air Force-style uniform must maintain appearance and grooming standards comparable to the Air Force standards, IAW AFI 36-2903, Dress and Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel. When wearing the Air Force-style uniform, all CAP members are required to present a professional military image. Members who do not meet these standards are restricted from wearing the Air Force-style uniform but are not barred from membership or active participation in CAP. In these circumstances, members may only wear authorized non-Air Force-style CAP uniforms or civilian attire as appropriate. Variations in these standards are subject to CAP-USAF/CC approval.

Clearly here is where the "fat and fuzzies" are addressed, got it.

1.3.4 CAP Distinctive Uniforms and Insignia. The emblems, insignia, and badges of the CAP Air Force-style uniform will clearly identify an individual as a CAP member at a distance and in low-light conditions. CAP-USAF/CC must approve changes to the CAP Air Force-style uniform. CAP uniforms must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces uniforms so that confusion will not occur.

Again, it does not address input.  So who developed the NCO chevrons, CAP-USAF or CAP? I suspect the previous CAP Commander in his "plan" submitted his design (or his approved design) for CAP NCO chevrons. Did he (or his artist) add the "CAP" or was that a CAP-USAF added "correction" to his plan?

[Shuman 14]

No it would fall into the same category as AFMPC AU AFOSI and all those other acronyms I had to study at bats and for WAPS testing. I'm not saying we got to have yearly mass briefings.  Just a presence in the official book of knowledge.

Why when we as the org should do a better job of marketing.  You and I both know the average AF member doesn't care and won't care.  Trying to jam it down their throats is not the way to go and all the agencies you listed are far more critical to the overall AF mission than CAP. 

If CAP wants to be known is it upto CAP to market and brief not Ma Blue.

If you read what I suggested, a CAP member would conduct the briefing, we just need the USAF to give us the time to do it in. No extra work foisted upon an already overworked USAF instructor.

[Storm Chaser]

Try paragraphs 1.3.1, 1.3.2, 1.3.3 and 1.3.4.

OK, my bad thank you.

1.3.1. CAP Grade. The Air Force through the CAP-USAF/CC has authority over the CAP grade structure. CAP uses military style grade for its membership at the discretion and approval of the CAP-USAF/CC. CAP officer or noncommissioned officer grade does not confer commissioned or noncommissioned officer status. CAP personnel have no authority over members of the armed forces. CAP members who are active, reserve, and retired members of the armed forces will be treated according to their CAP status when acting in a CAP capacity.

Still does not address the input for change by CAP. For example, I truly doubt anyone at CAP-USAF came in and said "Hey let's change the whole structure of the CAP NCO Corps today!" As we all know, that was the outgoing CAP Commander's pet project. A pet project developed by CAP, for CAP... approved by CAP-USAF. So if a future CAP commander came up with a project to do away with Officer Rank and to convert everyone to a Warrant Officer, would CAP-USAF be as equally receptive? As Eclipse likes to point out, there really no need to change the current NCO structure, yet they did. Someone sold CAP-USAF on the idea and they signed off on it.

1.3.2  Uniform Wear and Personal Appearance. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP or Air Force-style uniforms IAW CAP regulations (civilian clothing may be worn when specific missions dictate). CAP-USAF/CC controls the configuration of the Air Force-style uniform worn by CAP members and must approve of CAP uniforms to ensure they remain sufficiently distinct from Air Force-style uniforms.

Again, it does not address input. So who came up with grey/whites, CAP-USAF or CAP? Somehow I just don't see a group of Air Force Officers and Senior NCOs on a MACOM Staff coming up with their version of a Hornitos Tequila commercial. (Grey trousers? Any Grey trousers.) Most likely a CAP input signed off on CAP-USAF.

1.3.3 Air Force-Style Uniform Wear and Grooming Standards. CAP members who choose to wear the Air Force-style uniform must maintain appearance and grooming standards comparable to the Air Force standards, IAW AFI 36-2903, Dress and Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel. When wearing the Air Force-style uniform, all CAP members are required to present a professional military image. Members who do not meet these standards are restricted from wearing the Air Force-style uniform but are not barred from membership or active participation in CAP. In these circumstances, members may only wear authorized non-Air Force-style CAP uniforms or civilian attire as appropriate. Variations in these standards are subject to CAP-USAF/CC approval.

Clearly here is where the "fat and fuzzies" are addressed, got it.

1.3.4 CAP Distinctive Uniforms and Insignia. The emblems, insignia, and badges of the CAP Air Force-style uniform will clearly identify an individual as a CAP member at a distance and in low-light conditions. CAP-USAF/CC must approve changes to the CAP Air Force-style uniform. CAP uniforms must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces uniforms so that confusion will not occur.

Again, it does not address input.  So who developed the NCO chevrons, CAP-USAF or CAP? I suspect the previous CAP Commander in his "plan" submitted his design (or his approved design) for CAP NCO chevrons. Did he (or his artist) add the "CAP" or was that a CAP-USAF added "correction" to his plan?

In most cases, the initial input comes from CAP. CAP-USAF may provide additional input and/or feedback. CAP-USAF is the final authority for CAP's grade structure and changes to the CAP's Air Force-style uniform.

[Shuman 14]

Because if it is not in the big book of knowledge it is not important.   

Yes CAP needs to step up their game.  But Ma Blue can do this little thing to help us out.

Why should Ma Blue when it is more in our realm to do so?  We are not that important in the big scheme of things to warrant half a page in something that directly impacts an AMNs career.

Because CAP can't just insert knowledge of itself into the Air Force's knowledgebase without the USAF's approval.

And I can see several ways that knowledge of CAP can enhance that Airman's career... can't you? 

[Shuman 14]

One day those skito wings wi be Chiefs

And by the time those few (about 1%) "skito wings" make Chief, they will have forgotten that 30-minute briefing they got 14+ years ago.

As someone who is both an USAF officer and a CAP officer you really seem to have a low opinion of CAP and its worth to the USAF. 

[Shuman 14]

One day those skito wings wi be Chiefs

You've hit on one of the major problems with CAP organizationally. There is no planning past the current operational period. Reaching out to airmen at the beginning of their careers sure beats trying to make them understand who we are as the balloon is going up....

:clap:

[Shuman 14]

To use just a little space on blingage...we could replace a lot of CAP awards by using already-existing AF Civilian Awards; i.e., the Civilian Air Medal:

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4066

After all, when we are on AFAM's, we are considered an instrumentality of the Air Force.

If we can break our necks and/or lose our lives helping out the Air Force, then (and this is going to sound egotistical but honestly I don't care in this context) we bloody well can be recognised the same as other civilian members of "Team Air Force."

CAP is not the same as the "other civilian members" of Team Air Force.  Are you willing to deploy to coup some of these perks the rest of "Team Air Force" does?

Perhaps this is where CAP can take some examples from the USCGAux.

Fully considered part of "Team Coast Guard", awarded many USCG decorations for supporting the Coast Guard mission, does deploy (in non direct Combat and Law Enforcement missions) CONUS and OCONUS on a limited basis and need.

[Shuman 14]

It doesn't qualify and doesn't need to.

Why and why?

When and why what?  We don't qualify because we don't meet the primary criteria any more then a forward-deployed AAFES
employee can receive the SMV.

Unit awards are perfect example. If a CAP unit, directly supporting an USAF base, unit, and/or mission, does an outstanding job, it should be recognized... by the USAF with a USAF award.

If different Services can award each other unit awards for this type of "teamwork" it's not out-of-bounds to suggest that the same could, and should apply to CAP.

[Storm Chaser]

One day those skito wings wi be Chiefs

And by the time those few (about 1%) "skito wings" make Chief, they will have forgotten that 30-minute briefing they got 14+ years ago.

As someone who is both an USAF officer and a CAP officer you really seem to have a low opinion of CAP and its worth to the USAF. 

My years of service in CAP, actively supporting all missions, and track record, which includes numerous contributions to CAP at the unit, group and wing levels, say otherwise.

What have you done for CAP lately?