Cadet with Alcohol Misdemeanor

[Майор Хаткевич]

How does that saying go? "It is the Discretion of the Officer", In other words: the right to choose what should be done in a particular situation  or power of a judge, public official or a private party (under authority given by contract, trust or will) to make decisions on various matters based on his/her opinion within general legal guidelines. Examples: 1) a judge may have discretion as to the amount of a fine or whether to grant a continuance of a trial; 2) a trustee or executor of an estate may have discretion to divide assets among the beneficiaries so long as the value to each is approximately equal; 3) a district attorney may have discretion to charge a crime as a misdemeanor (maximum term of one year) or felony; 4) a Governor may have discretion to grant a pardon; or 5) a planning commission may use its discretion to grant or not to grant a variance to a zoning ordinance.

The cadet was already assigned a penalty. I don't think jail time was mentioned, so it must not have been a case of him hosting a rager for 12 year olds. He's already paying for it, and can't go into the Marines until he's 18. How much more do we need to drop kick him?

[Private Investigator]

In some states, it is perfectly legal for a minor to consume alcohol at home under parental supervision, and here in the south it is not uncommon to see teens who dip snuff (or chew tobacco-less common).  While not wise choices, they may be legal in the OP's state, and would therefore not necessarily be CAP's concern unless it's happening at meetings.

Concur with all of that. 

At some point, what a member does, whether cadet or senior, when not "on CAP time" is, to put it mildly, none of CAP's [darn] business.

JMHO, some Units are desperate for bodies. I can not believe some people that Unit Membership Boards have accepted. In life you do not get a choice who your neighbors are but in CAP you should have some common sense to see a "problem" before you take them in. Naivete should not effect a Unit's Membership Board but a naive Commander will usually surround themselves with similar thinking (or non-thinking) Staff. JMHO .. 

[Private Investigator]

How does that saying go? "It is the Discretion of the Officer", In other words: the right to choose what should be done in a particular situation  or power of a judge, public official or a private party (under authority given by contract, trust or will) to make decisions on various matters based on his/her opinion within general legal guidelines. Examples: 1) a judge may have discretion as to the amount of a fine or whether to grant a continuance of a trial; 2) a trustee or executor of an estate may have discretion to divide assets among the beneficiaries so long as the value to each is approximately equal; 3) a district attorney may have discretion to charge a crime as a misdemeanor (maximum term of one year) or felony; 4) a Governor may have discretion to grant a pardon; or 5) a planning commission may use its discretion to grant or not to grant a variance to a zoning ordinance.

The cadet was already assigned a penalty. I don't think jail time was mentioned, so it must not have been a case of him hosting a rager for 12 year olds. He's already paying for it, and can't go into the Marines until he's 18. How much more do we need to drop kick him?

One of my youngest daughter's classmates was the "extreme dude" and was going to be a Marine at 18. Well he never graduated in June, he is 18 and still not a Marine. But smokes and drinks after a good day panhandling at the freeway off ramp.   

[Sleepwalker]

As a Squadron Commander, I actually had this exact situation come up where one of my Cadets was caught drinking.  The Cadet was great, motivated, and caused no problems.  I gave him the option to stop drinking or I would see to it that he was out of the Squadron.  Being of basically firm moral character, he straightened out and today is attending college and learning aerospace. 

It would have been a different situation if this Cadet was on the edge already, but considering his character, I knew he just needed be put back on the straight and narrow.         

[Johnny Yuma]

We had a similar thread earlier...

I only have one question to ask: did said drinking occur on CAP time, at a CAP activity or while in CAP uniform?

If the answer is no to all these and its apparent that the law, the school and the parents already have a firm handle on the situation then MYOB. Handle it as a CAP issue when it becomes a CAP issue, right now it isn't.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Disagree. CAP cadets are called to perform to a higher standard and to live by the core values. Same reason cadets vet in trouble for Facebook posts.

[a2capt]

Chances are also good that if the adults outside of his family circle know about it, so do the cadets. So it may not be a full on CAP problem, but left unchecked, it most certainly could influence CAP behavior.

[lordmonar]

Like I said in like post 2........if the behavior is detrimental to good order and discipline, cadet operations or brings discredit on to CAP and/or the USAF....whether it happens on CAP time or not...then by all means it is a CAP problem....other then that.....not so much.

[blackrain]

Well.....given the number of responsible senior leaders in the military today who committed the same infraction back when they were young (whether they were caught or not) I'd say this is whole incident is getting way more attention than it deserves. All my under 21 y/o troops know that drinking underage is one thing....driving under the influence is another and not tolerated matter entirely. I doubt we could field much of a military force if all who drank before 21 were kicked out.

[Eclipse]

Well, I guess it's OK, then.

[lordmonar]

Not what he said.  He said that throwing people out for it may be inappropriate

[Eclipse]

Actually, he tried to equate underage drinking by those in the military to underage drinking by cadets.

Not only does the math not work, the former isn't CAP's problem, therefore not relevent to the conversation.

If the military chooses to look the other way, that's on them. CAP doesn't.

[abdsp51]

Military hardly looks the other way.  Those caught are punished and right now with folks getting cut and more to come they will definitely be meeting a QFRB.  It is highly frowned upon.

[Tim Medeiros]

The military, and the Air Force in particular, is definitely not looking the other way.  I have a friend who I met in tech school, she lost a stripe for underage drinking, she was later separated when her name came up (thanks to the Article 15) on the DOS rollback list.

What the military did 20-30 years ago doesn't matter, what it has been doing recently is far more relevant.

[Brit_in_CAP]

The military, and the Air Force in particular, is definitely not looking the other way.  I have a friend who I met in tech school, she lost a stripe for underage drinking, she was later separated when her name came up (thanks to the Article 15) on the DOS rollback list.

What the military did 20-30 years ago doesn't matter, what it has been doing recently is far more relevant.

+1.  Based on what our children tell us, the USMC and USCG take a similar, strict, approach.  At official events the also police the over-21s.  No reason to 'look the other way'.

[Al Sayre]

When I was in the USN, we called the official events "OBSL's" One Beer, Smile, Leave....

[SarDragon]

Well, I guess it's OK, then.

C'mon, Bob.

Underage drinking is not OK, and never has been. How it's handled is the issue here. Most of us who drank underage probably never had any prosecutable incidents, and escaped unscathed. Others were not so fortunate. Each situation needs to be evaluated on its own merits, and processed accordingly.

Regarding the situation in the OP, I think the perp deserves a second chance if this is a first offense, and then observation. If it's more complicated than the OP suggests, harsher action might be warranted.

But you knew that, didn't you.

[Eclipse]

You really didn't think that was serious...

[SarDragon]

You really didn't think that was serious...

Of course not. I do think it was unneeded rabble-rousing, though.

[LSThiker]

Well.....given the number of responsible senior leaders in the military today who committed the same infraction back when they were young (whether they were caught or not) I'd say this is whole incident is getting way more attention than it deserves. All my under 21 y/o troops know that drinking underage is one thing....driving under the influence is another and not tolerated matter entirely. I doubt we could field much of a military force if all who drank before 21 were kicked out.

Military hardly looks the other way.  Those caught are punished and right now with folks getting cut and more to come they will definitely be meeting a QFRB.  It is highly frowned upon.

The decision whether or not to discharge a service member due to an alcohol violation is made on several criteria.  It truly is time dependent.  It can be dependent on the person, past history, needed AOC/MOS, needed MTOE strength, etc.   In some years, the DoD seems like they will never discharge a person on it, while on others it is all too often.  The same is true for drug violations.  the decision is up to the commander.  I have seen an E-6 retained after two drug violations, while I have seen an E-3 discharged over the same violation.  I have seen an O-3 discharged for an alcohol violation but an E-8 kept until 20 years.

Bottom line is these types of violations are all over the board.