Updated CAPR 35-5 released today (11 Aug 14)

[kwe1009]

How is it that such a hard-core, party-line-at-all-costs Kool-aid drinker like you didn't make E-9 in today's AF?

I'd like another glass, please.  Mmmmmm, grape--my favorite!

Are you implying that Air Force CMSgts are Kool-Aid drinkers?

The E-9's are and there are a lot more E-9's than Chiefs in today's Air Force.

[LSThiker]

The E-9's are and there are a lot more E-9's than Chiefs in today's Air Force.

Are you sure you are not a Kool-Aid drinker?  That makes no sense at all.  How are there more E-9s than Chiefs in today's USAF?

[Storm Chaser]

Only 1% of the Air Force total enlisted force holds the rank of CMSgt (E-9). That's quite an accomplishment for those attaining that rank/pay grade. To question the dedication and service of the majority of our top enlisted members is not just disrespectful, but unbecoming of a CAP officer.

[jeders]

The E-9's are and there are a lot more E-9's than Chiefs in today's Air Force.

That makes absolutely no sense.

[lordmonar]

He is implying that There is a difference between chiefs and those who get promoted to E-9.
Which in MHO is true.

As to the kool aide drinking comment.   Yes I will support my leaders and the program as written.  In public and voice my concerns up the chain as all leaders should do.
And if that is the worse you can call me.   I'll take that as a complement.

[Garibaldi]

He is implying that There is a difference between chiefs and those who get promoted to E-9.
Which in MHO is true.

As to the kool aide drinking comment.   Yes I will support my leaders and the program as written.  In public and voice my concerns up the chain as all leaders should do.
And if that is the worse you can call me.   I'll take that as a complement.

It was great....much better than Cats....I'm going to see it again and again....

[kwe1009]

Only 1% of the Air Force total enlisted force holds the rank of CMSgt (E-9). That's quite an accomplishment for those attaining that rank/pay grade. To question the dedication and service of the majority of our top enlisted members is not just disrespectful, but unbecoming of a CAP officer.

I am an Air Force SNCO.

[lordmonar]

Yes unfortunately too many SNCO go the political route to get E-9 and forget what being a chief is all about.

[abdsp51]

I have watched this thread and it saddens me that members here are quick to condemn someone for leaving or desiring to leave based on anything.

If a member wants to leave because something changed that impacts them who are we to judge them.   We can tout mission mission mission all  day long but in the end even the most die hard volunteer has their breaking point. 

We are not compensated as SM outside of decorations, awards and yes promotions.  But when you impact your people in a major way, especially with little compensation you impact your mission.  I bet if the requirements changed to fly and pilots where deciding to leave it be a different tune sung. 

[PHall]

I have watched this thread and it saddens me that members here are quick to condemn someone for leaving or desiring to leave based on anything.

If a member wants to leave because something changed that impacts them who are we to judge them.   We can tout mission mission mission all  day long but in the end even the most die hard volunteer has their breaking point. 

We are not compensated as SM outside of decorations, awards and yes promotions.  But when you impact your people in a major way, especially with little compensation you impact your mission.  I bet if the requirements changed to fly and pilots where deciding to leave it be a different tune sung.

I made my comment because there are some CAP Senior Members who are only here because they can be an "officer".
And just to get it out there, I too am a Retired Air Force Reserve SNCO.  And I didn't find the Kool Aide joke that funny either.

[kwe1009]

I have watched this thread and it saddens me that members here are quick to condemn someone for leaving or desiring to leave based on anything.

If a member wants to leave because something changed that impacts them who are we to judge them.   We can tout mission mission mission all  day long but in the end even the most die hard volunteer has their breaking point. 

We are not compensated as SM outside of decorations, awards and yes promotions.  But when you impact your people in a major way, especially with little compensation you impact your mission.  I bet if the requirements changed to fly and pilots where deciding to leave it be a different tune sung.

Well put.  The "mission" depends on the individual.  For some the CAP mission is about flying and for others it is about ES or cadet programs.  Some even join CAP because they want to lend their administrative and leadership skills to the organization.  We all join for different reasons and people leave for different reasons. 

[Eclipse]

I made my comment because there are some CAP Senior Members who are only here because they can be an "officer".

Please indicate where that is a problem?

NHQ obviously feels that is still a recruiting draw, and if necessary we can burn up the search engine
and find comments from people in this thread who have indicated, in similar contexts, that
"if that's what draws them to CAP, whatever works..." in terms of bling, extra uniform items, whatever.

You reap what you sow.

[abdsp51]

While I do not agree with the "kool-aide" comment, I see the point that was trying to be made.  I think and it's just an opinion and perspective but people want to focus way to much on the mission and not the members and the impact change/s have on them.  Without people there is no mission. 

[Storm Chaser]

I made my comment because there are some CAP Senior Members who are only here because they can be an "officer".

Please indicate where that is a problem?

NHQ obviously feels that is still a recruiting draw, and if necessary we can burn up the search engine and find comments from people in this thread who have indicated, in similar contexts, that "if that's what draws them to CAP, whatever works..." in terms of bling, extra uniform items, whatever.

You reap what you sow.

But is that what we really want; individuals whose primary motivation in CAP is to be "officers" and wear "uniforms"? While there's nothing inherently wrong with those things, one would hope that membership in CAP be more than that.

[Storm Chaser]

Without people there is no mission.

That's very true. However, without grades, military-style uniforms, etc. we would still have a mission and people ready to serve to accomplish that mission.

[Eclipse]

I made my comment because there are some CAP Senior Members who are only here because they can be an "officer".

Please indicate where that is a problem?

NHQ obviously feels that is still a recruiting draw, and if necessary we can burn up the search engine and find comments from people in this thread who have indicated, in similar contexts, that "if that's what draws them to CAP, whatever works..." in terms of bling, extra uniform items, whatever.

You reap what you sow.

But is that what we really want; individuals whose primary motivation in CAP is to be "officers" and wear "uniforms"? While there's nothing inherently wrong with those things, one would hope that membership in CAP be more than that.

Of course not, however human nature is working against that.

There's plenty of people in the military who are there just for the paycheck, schooling, or both. Same goes for FDs, LEAs, and certainly
a lot of jobs. How about politicians?  In a perfect world, everyone would "seek service before self" over "self-aggrandizement".

In that same perfect world, CAP would be fully manned and staff so that members wouldn't have to choose - the "doers" would be too
busy "doing" to give it much thought, and they'd be backed up by a full complement of administrative personnel to handle the
running of the store.

In CAP's current situation, the majority of the time for most members, is spent just running CAP, with no actual single-purposed
cadre of "doers".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Nonetheless, the conditions for promotion remain subjective rather than objective.

I am an unapologetically "if there is not a logical explanation, chances are I will not understand" type of person.

When I first joined CAP in 1993, my first CC went over the levels with me quite closely.  I understood (wrongly, it seems) a quite linear path along the lines of "complete A, B, C, etc.," much like rank progression as a Boy Scout (I was almost an Eagle but turned 18 before I could finish my project).  However, I found out painfully, as most of you know, that such an approach is just "box checking" and does not take at all into account personality differences between the one applying for promotion and those approving (or not) said promotions.

I still think giving Captain just for being a "financial professional" is a bad, bad idea.  I knew one of those and he may have been good with the numbers, but he didn't know a bloody thing about CAP (or the Air Force, for that matter) and hardly ever wore a uniform...but he had brown nosing schmoozing skills par excellence and I think he is a Lt. Col. now.

[AirAux]

Ah yes, the phrase that has always frustrated me:   "Mission First, People Always"






Air Force Dilemma: "Mission First" — What About "People Always"?


Written by Michelle Zook on April 2, 2014


Of all the Air Force catchphrases, this one bothers me the most. It's technically supposed to be "Mission First, People Always," but somehow that second half gets left off a lot. In a quest to shorten dwell time, turn crews faster, and maintain a morale crushing operations tempo, the "Mission First" gets thrown out there to justify just about all types of shenanigans. And it doesn't really make all that much sense—"first" implies a sense of priority, while "always" is a sense of time, a habit if you will. So which is it? I think that it gets shortened so often to just the first two words is pretty telling.

No doubt the Air Force—and military in general—has a morale problem, but the Air Force's seemed to have been most highlighted lately. Whether it's the AFPC issue (I hesitate to use the word "scandal" because it's so far off of most Americans' radar, but within the service, it at least approaches travesty level) or the ICBM career field rot, you can sum it up with one phrase: "Mission First".

Read more at http://clashdaily.com/2014/04/air-force-dilemma-mission-first-people-always/#572PIglsJtWfU52M.99

[Storm Chaser]

Nonetheless, the conditions for promotion remain subjective rather than objective.

That's true in the military and corporate world as well. It's just a fact of life.

I still think giving Captain just for being a "financial professional" is a bad, bad idea.

I don't disagree. In the military, rank/pay grade is linked to financial compensation. Advanced appointments/promotions are designed to recruit needed talent, in a competitive job market, that otherwise wouldn't be available to meet service needs.

In CAP, it's used as an incentive as well, with the difference that grade is not linked to money. That makes the insignia/title the"carrot" to attract these needed volunteers. The problem is that, unlike the military where these professionals are limited to specific career fields, in CAP a legal, finance or health services officer, for example, can assume other roles in the organization even though they lack the experience/training normally associated with the grade being held. Furthermore, if grade is the only or primary motivator for these professionals to volunteer, then that may lead to many joining for the wrong reasons, thus adversely affecting the organization in the long run.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Nonetheless, the conditions for promotion remain subjective rather than objective.

That's true in the military and corporate world as well. It's just a fact of life.

To a certain extent.

However, in both the military and corporate worlds (in my experience), in some cases I have been fortunate enough to have supervisory types who did adhere to the published standards, and if I did not meet them, was usually (not always) given remedial direction on how to meet them.

In CAP if someone has a burr in their butt about you...they do not have to give a reason why.  The more professional ones will, but nonetheless it is not required.