Updated CAPR 35-5 released today (11 Aug 14)

[LSThiker]

Having a forum for the flow of information and ideas are great and no one will against that.  However, numerous people mock CAPTalk and at a time Cadetstuff.org.  So MSgt Harris' comment is spot on with certain member populations.  So, when a person says "CAPTalk", a number of people moan about it.  A few people that I know had told their cadets and seniors to stay away as:

"it is a forum where seniors can be dicks to other seniors and bully cadets"
"It is a place where it is dominated by a few members, if you do not agree with their point of view, you will not last long"
"Even if you are right, if they do not agree, then you are wrong"
"Pointless things will be argued by making mountains out of rather insignificant problems"

And plenty more.

I won't argue that a number of great discussions, ideas, and views can be had from this place, but the majority of people that I know, including my wing, have no favorable view of this website.  Do not know if the same views are held about the Facebook groups, as I do not participate in those since I refuse to use my Facebook for anything CAP.

I could cite the comments where those views come from, but I will not.  It will become counterproductive as people will either try to justify them, say "too bad, I am right", "not my problem if they can't handle it", or say "so we should just talk about stupid ideas as everyone wearing berets".

[Eclipse]

In a lot of cases, the people making these comments wandered in looking for validation of a failed premise,
bad idea, or couldn't be bothered to use Google or their own chain when asking a very specific question,
that or they wanted to "out" some questionable behavior, or "right some wrong" but no matter
how many times you ask for detail, the story changes as the person realizes they have no recourse,
or that they might be the person with the issue, even if it's only because they don't understand CAP.

In most of those cases, these adults need to learn that the internet is not a place for validation
or to be vindicated because of "Forum Outrage Syndrome".

Ideas stand on their own merits, if you can't articulate them properly, then perhaps the written form
of expression is not for you.

What a lot of people don't understand is that when you are arguing opinion or interpretation
then it is possible for their to be more then one person who is "right", and then that "right"
extends exactly as far as the AOR of the person making the interpretation.   CAP causes
a lot of its own problems in that it allows for 20 shades of gray (sorry Cyborg), and then
further allows people with no authority to interpret things in a manner which appears
official.  That doesn't help.

Bottom line, if people spoke with shorter sentences and were more clear and direct, things
would go a lot smoother in CAP.

[LSThiker]

May be true for some, but not all that I know.

[MacGruff]

Consideration should have been made for those who had completed a level but waiting for TIG for the promotion.  Especially if that TIG was less than a year, or month, or week.

Bluelakes - The scenario you describe has been taken care of as part of the regulation. You can have a one-time waiver of TIG for the next four years. The problem that many people have is that the PD levels have also increased and there is NO waiver for that.

[Storm Chaser]

Consideration should have been made for those who had completed a level but waiting for TIG for the promotion.  Especially if that TIG was less than a year, or month, or week.

Bluelakes - The scenario you describe has been taken care of as part of the regulation. You can have a one-time waiver of TIG for the next four years. The problem that many people have is that the PD levels have also increased and there is NO waiver for that.

That's precisely the issue. A Capt who completed Level III and was waiting for TIG before the new reg, now has to complete Level IV to qualify for promotion to Maj.

[MacGruff]

Consideration should have been made for those who had completed a level but waiting for TIG for the promotion.  Especially if that TIG was less than a year, or month, or week.

Bluelakes - The scenario you describe has been taken care of as part of the regulation. You can have a one-time waiver of TIG for the next four years. The problem that many people have is that the PD levels have also increased and there is NO waiver for that.

That's precisely the issue. A Capt who completed Level III and was waiting for TIG before the new reg, now has to complete Level IV to qualify for promotion to Maj.

Look at the note to Figure 2: Members applying for duty performance promotions during the period 1 June 2014 to 1 June 2018 may use the previous time-in-grade requirements. etc.

So, to use your example, that Capt that has his Level III and is ONLY waiting on TIG under the old rules, can apply for this one-time exception to promote to Major

[Panache]

So, to use your example, that Capt that has his Level III and is ONLY waiting on TIG under the old rules, can apply for this one-time exception to promote to Major

Key phrase: "Time in Grade requirement may be waived".  You still have to meet the new PD level requirement.

[MacGruff]

So, to use your example, that Capt that has his Level III and is ONLY waiting on TIG under the old rules, can apply for this one-time exception to promote to Major

Key phrase: "Time in Grade requirement may be waived".  You still have to meet the new PD level requirement.

Oops. You're right. I mis-stated my position.

[FW]

May be true for some, but not all that I know.

Yep! This is why we develop "filters".  I, for one, don't read uniform threads unless I have lots of popcorn and nothing better to do. I've been participating on CAP forums now for close to 25 years, and I've noticed nothing different about the quality of the posts, the thought behind them, or the passion about them.  I find it both entertaining and enlightening; even when those opinions are based on nothing but the "ether".

I wouldn't fault this forum for anything.  It enables those of us who need an outlet. It gives our leaders another tool to gauge member temperament.   When things get out of hand, we have moderators and administrators who step in.  There is balance in the force...

[abdsp51]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

[Tim Medeiros]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

Unless that is specifically asked for the next year, you won't.  Reason being is that failed to renew is simply failed to renew.  It could be as simple as a member who moved away or got a new job and was not able to stay active, or could simply be someone who forgot or didn't have the money at the time.  So all we have is "failed to renew" not "failed to renew because x"

[PHall]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

If this reg change makes you not renew, then you were a member for the wrong reasons.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

If this reg change makes you not renew, then you were a member for the wrong reasons.

Once again missing the point. Death by a thousand cuts doesn't happen with the first one.

[Al Sayre]

So, to use your example, that Capt that has his Level III and is ONLY waiting on TIG under the old rules, can apply for this one-time exception to promote to Major

Key phrase: "Time in Grade requirement may be waived".  You still have to meet the new PD level requirement.

Word passed at National Conference is to expect a change that both new TIG & PD can be waived for one promotion, i.e. your next promotion will be under the old rules until 2018, after that the new rules will apply.  Expect a reg update very soon.

[lordmonar]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

If this reg change makes you not renew, then you were a member for the wrong reasons.

Once again missing the point. Death by a thousand cuts doesn't happen with the first one.

And again.....if this makes you quit....you may be in the wrong organization.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

If this reg change makes you not renew, then you were a member for the wrong reasons.

Once again missing the point. Death by a thousand cuts doesn't happen with the first one.

And again.....if this makes you quit....you may be in the wrong organization.

I can't 100% agree with that. We teach our cadets and extoll the idea of SMART goals. Setting them and achieving or surpassing them. So someone decides I'd like to complete Level III and get promoted to Major by X. They start pursuing this goal, which may have been a stretch for them, only to have it fairly arbitrarily and suddenly made much harder if not impossible under their circumstances. Certainly might be the proverbial straw.

If the earlier comment about the grandfathering being changed is correct I think it will go a long way in addressing the issue

[Storm Chaser]

While I favor the grandfathering of those currently working or having completed the PD requirements under the old reg for their next promotion and recognize their service and hard work, I agree with Lordmonar's comments. Anyone wanting to quit because of this should reexamine if they're in CAP for the right reasons. After all, CAP is much more than uniforms, awards and grades.

[lordmonar]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

If this reg change makes you not renew, then you were a member for the wrong reasons.

Once again missing the point. Death by a thousand cuts doesn't happen with the first one.

And again.....if this makes you quit....you may be in the wrong organization.

I can't 100% agree with that. We teach our cadets and extoll the idea of SMART goals. Setting them and achieving or surpassing them. So someone decides I'd like to complete Level III and get promoted to Major by X. They start pursuing this goal, which may have been a stretch for them, only to have it fairly arbitrarily and suddenly made much harder if not impossible under their circumstances. Certainly might be the proverbial straw.

If the earlier comment about the grandfathering being changed is correct I think it will go a long way in addressing the issue

Not arbitrarily.  Not suddenly.  Not impossible or even "much harder".

If that is the last straw...then again......maybe CAP is not right for you.

If you are an adult in the real world and you don't know life ain't fair........and your reaction is to take your ball and go home......have fun.  Thanks for playing.

I'm sorry that I'm being so blunt.   

Look I get it....I really do.....it sucks.   But if your reaction to it is to quit.....good bye....thanks for playing....I think maybe the organization will be better with out you.....and maybe you may be better off with out CAP.

[Nuke52]

I would love to see the numbers on members who don't renew due to this.

If this reg change makes you not renew, then you were a member for the wrong reasons.

Once again missing the point. Death by a thousand cuts doesn't happen with the first one.

And again.....if this makes you quit....you may be in the wrong organization.

I can't 100% agree with that. We teach our cadets and extoll the idea of SMART goals. Setting them and achieving or surpassing them. So someone decides I'd like to complete Level III and get promoted to Major by X. They start pursuing this goal, which may have been a stretch for them, only to have it fairly arbitrarily and suddenly made much harder if not impossible under their circumstances. Certainly might be the proverbial straw.

If the earlier comment about the grandfathering being changed is correct I think it will go a long way in addressing the issue

Not arbitrarily.  Not suddenly.  Not impossible or even "much harder".

If that is the last straw...then again......maybe CAP is not right for you.

If you are an adult in the real world and you don't know life ain't fair........and your reaction is to take your ball and go home......have fun.  Thanks for playing.

I'm sorry that I'm being so blunt.   

Look I get it....I really do.....it sucks.   But if your reaction to it is to quit.....good bye....thanks for playing....I think maybe the organization will be better with out you.....and maybe you may be better off with out CAP.

How is it that such a hard-core, party-line-at-all-costs Kool-aid drinker like you didn't make E-9 in today's AF?

I'd like another glass, please.  Mmmmmm, grape--my favorite! 

[Storm Chaser]

How is it that such a hard-core, party-line-at-all-costs Kool-aid drinker like you didn't make E-9 in today's AF?

I'd like another glass, please.  Mmmmmm, grape--my favorite!

Are you implying that Air Force CMSgts are Kool-Aid drinkers?