Updated CAPR 35-5 released today (11 Aug 14)

[jimmydeanno]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

Most of those examples have different models for their volunteer service.  CAP isn't a "show up on the day and we'll use you" type of organization.  It requires a long-term committed membership to be able to do the missions that we perform.  You can't just show up that day and do some volunteer work.  People regard many of those organizations as something to do if they have an extra day.  "Oh, wouldn't it be cool to help build a habitat house next weekend?"

[Storm Chaser]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

Most of those examples have different models for their volunteer service.  CAP isn't a "show up on the day and we'll use you" type of organization.  It requires a long-term committed membership to be able to do the missions that we perform.  You can't just show up that day and do some volunteer work.  People regard many of those organizations as something to do if they have an extra day.  "Oh, wouldn't it be cool to help build a habitat house next weekend?"

I agree to an extent. However, I was replying to the comment "In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling..." That's just not true of every volunteer organization.

[ColonelJack]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

Most of those examples have different models for their volunteer service.  CAP isn't a "show up on the day and we'll use you" type of organization.  It requires a long-term committed membership to be able to do the missions that we perform.  You can't just show up that day and do some volunteer work.  People regard many of those organizations as something to do if they have an extra day.  "Oh, wouldn't it be cool to help build a habitat house next weekend?"

I agree to an extent. However, I was replying to the comment "In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling..." That's just not true of every volunteer organization.

However, you have to admit that to a very large extent, it is true about CAP.  Oh, sure, there are members who couldn't care two buckets of swill about rank, bling, or anything else ... but that attitude is NOT shared by the majority of the membership.  (No, I can't cite anything ... I'm speaking from the hip here.) 

Jack

[Storm Chaser]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

Most of those examples have different models for their volunteer service.  CAP isn't a "show up on the day and we'll use you" type of organization.  It requires a long-term committed membership to be able to do the missions that we perform.  You can't just show up that day and do some volunteer work.  People regard many of those organizations as something to do if they have an extra day.  "Oh, wouldn't it be cool to help build a habitat house next weekend?"

I agree to an extent. However, I was replying to the comment "In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling..." That's just not true of every volunteer organization.

However, you have to admit that to a very large extent, it is true about CAP.  Oh, sure, there are members who couldn't care two buckets of swill about rank, bling, or anything else ... but that attitude is NOT shared by the majority of the membership.  (No, I can't cite anything ... I'm speaking from the hip here.) 

Jack

You are correct, sir.

[JeffDG]

Hold off any decisions.  Promotion committee is going to make a change to the reg soon.
My guess is they are going to expand the grandfathering.

Is this an old promotion committee or a new one?

Seeing that the new CAP/CC made the motion at CSAG to include THIS grandfathering clause, don't expect a lot of changes.

[Panache]

I know I would be pissed if my "free ride" suddenly cost me more time and money.

This statement makes no sense.  If it costs "more", it wasn't free in the first place, was it?

[Devil Doc]

So.......If you dont have the Dough or the Education, Advancing to LtCol is Slim to none. Looks like CAPT FO LIFE!!

[Eclipse]

I know I would be pissed if my "free ride" suddenly cost me more time and money.

This statement makes no sense.  If it costs "more", it wasn't free in the first place, was it?

Time is the fire in which we burn, so nothing is "free", even that second Sham-Wow.

However until now there was no fixed cost associated specifically with attaining Lt Col.

[lordmonar]

Hold off any decisions.  Promotion committee is going to make a change to the reg soon.
My guess is they are going to expand the grandfathering. 

I'm just wondering; "Back in the day", we had an open comment period before publishing regulations. Did that practice come to an end with CAPM 39-1?  We also had a National Board to vet and approve regulations before they became the "law of the land".  Regulation by committee may be swinging the pendulum a little too far the other way. 

In any event; it seems to be a poor practice to publish, get feedback, change, get more feedback, change, get more feedback, and then apply waivers, exceptions, etc... There must be a better way.

YMMV!

Are you suggesting that CAP still has a lot to learn?  You bet.

[lordmonar]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

We are not ARC, AmeriCorps et al.     

[lordmonar]

I know I would be pissed if my "free ride" suddenly cost me more time and money.

This statement makes no sense.  If it costs "more", it wasn't free in the first place, was it?

You are right it makes no sense......why is anyone here or out in the real world butt hurt over these changes?

The bar got moved.   Move on. 

All this rhetoric about "punishment" and "not caring about the members" and then we slap "Bling is just stupid" and "PD is irrelevant" and "rank is meaning less"......one wonders why NHQ volunteers cring at the thought of dealing with "feed back from the field".

And you know the funny part is.....I agree with most of you that the grandfathering clause was screwed up.   But the level of angst on this topic on this board....and the threatening to quit over this.........now that is just silly.   

And that is why CAPTALK is just not taken seriously.

[Panache]

I know I would be pissed if my "free ride" suddenly cost me more time and money.

This statement makes no sense.  If it costs "more", it wasn't free in the first place, was it?

You are right it makes no sense......why is anyone here or out in the real world butt hurt over these changes?

It's a matter of perspective.

If you were a Captain who was 10 days from making TIG for Major, or your paperwork was being processed, and then all of the sudden you were told the rules were changed and you were not being promoted through no fault of your own, yeah, I can see how this would anger people.

But, apparently, since the rule change does not immediately impact you personally, you simply fail to see why anybody would be upset.

[lordmonar]

I know I would be pissed if my "free ride" suddenly cost me more time and money.

This statement makes no sense.  If it costs "more", it wasn't free in the first place, was it?

You are right it makes no sense......why is anyone here or out in the real world butt hurt over these changes?

It's a matter of perspective.

If you were a Captain who was 10 days from making TIG for Major, or your paperwork was being processed, and then all of the sudden you were told the rules were changed and you were not being promoted through no fault of your own, yeah, I can see how this would anger people.

But, apparently, since the rule change does not immediately impact you personally, you simply fail to see why anybody would be upset.]/b]

You apparently don't read my posts.   I do understand that we moved the bar on people.  I do understand that Lt Col is now going to cost people more money.    But I  don't understand the level of angst this has generated. 

I don't understand the out and out hatred and contempt people have shown towards "THEM" who have made these changes.

I agree....I said I agreed......that the grandfathering was not well thought out.   But bottom line.....it is CAP.  It is the way it is and the way it has always has been.    Have your say, get a drink, move on.   

[Storm Chaser]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

We are not ARC, AmeriCorps et al.   

I never suggested that we were. If you read my previous post carefully, you'll notice that I was replying to the absolute statement "In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling...", which as I said before, may be true of CAP, but not of every volunteer organization out there.

[Eclipse]

I don't understand the out and out hatred and contempt people have shown towards "THEM" who have made these changes.

"Hatred"?

Cite please.

There's a chasm of difference between "strong disagreement" and "hatred".
I haven't seen any "hatred" here in quite a while, it's usually not tolerated, nor should it be.

[Bluelakes 13]

Consideration should have been made for those who had completed a level but waiting for TIG for the promotion.  Especially if that TIG was less than a year, or month, or week.

Several have said that grade and/or bling are the rewards for the time and monies we spend in this organization.  Remove those rewards, and folks may wonder if their time is being prioritized correctly.

[FW]

Patrick, CAPtalk is an unofficial forum to discuss issues of importance to its subscribers. I can assure you CT is taken seriously by many with influence to change things. As a former AF NCO, you know the importance of the "grapevine". For better or worse,  CT has become that source of information.
In fact, it was this forum's predicessor which was the impotous for the creation of the BoG.

CAP has much to learn, without listening, it won't.

[Storm Chaser]

Consideration should have been made for those who had completed a level but waiting for TIG for the promotion.  Especially if that TIG was less than a year, or month, or week.

Agree. That would've been a better transition for these new requirements.

Several have said that grade and/or bling are the rewards for the time and monies we spend in this organization.  Remove those rewards, and folks may wonder if their time is being prioritized correctly.

Sad, indeed.

[lordmonar]

Patrick, CAPtalk is an unofficial forum to discuss issues of importance to its subscribers. I can assure you CT is taken seriously by many with influence to change things. As a former AF NCO, you know the importance of the "grapevine". For better or worse,  CT has become that source of information.
In fact, it was this forum's predicessor which was the impotous for the creation of the BoG.

CAP has much to learn, without listening, it won't.

Yes I know.    And I also know that just as many thing CT is so full of BS that any good ideas that we may have get left by the road side.   My point was that if we try to moderate our own rantings and keep the language civil we (CAP and CT) can do a whole lot more.

[Eclipse]

Yes I know.    And I also know that just as many thing CT is so full of BS that any good ideas that we may have get left by the road side.   My point was that if we try to moderate our own rantings and keep the language civil we (CAP and CT) can do a whole lot more.

So full of "BS"?  Redundancy?  Yes.   Misinformation?  Some.

BS?  Where?

And again, what needs to be "moderated" in this thread?