Updated CAPR 35-5 released today (11 Aug 14)

[Private Investigator]

If CAP wanted to get rid of members this was a great way to do it.

You know that is just history repeating itself. Members have always complained about something. 

[catrulz]

Of course there is still the good old fashion waiver.  CAPR 35-5 1-8d.  They have made these waivers a little more difficult to process, but the ability to do so still exists.  There is also still CAPR 35-5 3-9 Exceptional Qualifications.  Both of these chapters and paras give the higher level leadership a free ticket to promote who they wish, without placing them in a COL slot.

[Bluelakes 13]

Did this regulation update ever go to draft status for member input?

[JeffDG]

Did this regulation update ever go to draft status for member input?

The Echelons-above-reality no longer need input from mere members.

[Storm Chaser]

I was close to completing Level IV. Now I need Level V as well. A minor setback, but nothing that will dramatically impact my participation and contribution in CAP.

I agree that the transition could've been better thought out and implemented, but overall I think this will have a positive impact in the future of CAP. Of course, that doesn't eliminate the pain caused to those who just got hosed by the new requirements. It happens. Maybe they'll back track a bit, just like they did with the Cadet Programs Specialty Track. But even if the don't, life will go on.

I strongly recommend that if anyone has ideas on how to better implement these new requirements, that they submit them through their chain of command. Perhaps some of this transition can be fixed. But just complaining about it and threatening to leave the organization won't necessarily have the expected result. After all, we all want to have the best CAP possible and not just to get promoted (I hope).

[Jaison009]

http://www.capmembers.com/cap_university/level-iii-management/

I am stuck waiting for TIG in Dec in the same situation for my railroad tracks and quite pissed about this...

Soooo... based on the new Regs, When Can I be Eligible for CAPT? DOR is Feb 2014.

DOR? Did you leave your liner by the bell?

Capt is now Level III + 2.5 years as a 1st Lt., so +30 months from whatever the 1st Lt. date is in eServices,
assuming you complete Level III.

Actually, he beat the 1 June 14 date for the grandfather clause, so he SHOULD be allowed 18 months from his promotion to 1st Lt to complete Level III, which I believe gives him until the end of Aug 2015.  The trick is that he will probably need to finish Level II and then complete all of Level III by then.

So? Since I have completed lvl II already, All I have to do is complete lvl III by August 2015? Do I have to attend any confrences?

[Eclipse]

Did this regulation update ever go to draft status for member input?

The Echelons-above-reality no longer need input from mere members.

This is probably the most unfortunate apparent reality.

NHQ provides neither strategic vision, comprehensive planning, nor accounts for the ramifications
at the rank and file level.  Everything is piecemeal "when we get around to it".

Ten years to publish an update to a baseline regulation is counted as a "win" and when it's finally "done"
it sits in an IN box for 6 months and is released "broken" because of "not invented here".  Rhetoric and effort
around an unworkable NCO tier that will make the grade situation even worse, seemingly small tweaks to
PD and promotions that add to the general ennui while disincentivizing those actually doing the heavy lifting.

Meanwhile the organization trend lines looks like a Form 5 Cross Country flight plan from RMR to MER and
no one is acknowledging that, let alone addressing it.

[kwe1009]

I am hearing all sorts of excellent views on this topic and I for one am not happy in one area and that is the movement of the goal posts. I am a major with more than enough time in grade for Lt Col however due to cost I am not able to go to RSC or National but have completed all the other tasks. I hold a Region position, 3 Wing positions and a number of Squadron positions. I think the grade should reflect what you do for CAP rather than just course work. If you are content to function at squadron level only then you shouldn't advance past Captain, Major and Lt Col should be for Wing and Group level. Col/B Gen Region and National Commander Maj Gen.
The British Air Training Corps has a system where rank matters. Highest level at squadron is Flight Lieutenant (Capt), the Wing Commander holds the rank of Wing Commander (Lt Col). He has a certain number of Squadron Leaders (Major) who are responsible for a number of squadrons and there are some Flight Lieutenants also with various duties. Of course for certain duties they do get paid (Max of 28 days a year) which more than helps with the courses which are free.
In a nut shell as much as I am disappointed not to be able to advance further (unless I win the lottery) I think a better system would be to have the rank/grade for the position/duties you hold. What level you have completed can be shown by a ribbon or badge. Just a thought.

That is the way the military and usually the Cadet program as well: promotions equal increased responsibility.  Senior promotions should be along those lines as well.  If you are going to be a Major or above then you should have been in a Group or higher position at some point.

Also, I really hope that National rethinks not grandfathering the PD requirement.  I was just 2 days away from making Captain and now I have to go through Level III. 

I am prior USAF enlisted so I don't have to worry about RSC or NSC thanks to my Air Force PME.  I just have to find time to attend conferences, go to CLC, get my master rating, and just wait for the years to go by. 

[MSG Mac]

If CAP wanted to get rid of members this was a great way to do it.

You know that is just history repeating itself. Members have always complained about something. 

Same argument used when fingerprinting became  mandatory for all Senior Members
Same argument when the dreaded Maroon epaulets and fruit loops were introduced.

Why not go all the way back to  good old days when Level 2 would cry you through to Major, No Height/Weight standards so even Jabba the Hutt could wear the AF uniform, and there was no CPPT.

[MacGruff]

I live in the corporate world, and when a change like this is discussed (analogies to the promotion policies, or salary increase policies) there is a step that I have always seen taken, or performed myself. I am speaking of an impact analysis. This would show how many people are impacted, and in what ways. Some will be impacted positively, some negatively, and some not at all. For instance, I was part of a company management team that was looking at making changes to the point in time when we would hand out raises. The proposal was to delay it by six months each year for two straight years, and thereby eliminate one annual raise cycle. One of the tasks was to figure out how many people would be so offended by this proposed change that they would choose to leave our organization and go somewhere else. Of course, there are a whole bunch of assumptions involved, but it is a tool used to figure out the price of a major policy change so then management can decide whether it makes sense to do it, or not.

All of this is a preliminary to asking if anyone knows if NHQ performed such an analysis as part of the discussions on this? Maybe it was done, and only a handful of members are actually affected? I suppose I am being too optimistic....

For my squadron, I will be doing precisely this kind of analysis this weekend. I already know that I was impacted negatively as were three others, and we just had one person promoted (two days before the regulation went into effect!!!) who otherwise would have had to wait for at least one more year before getting their promotion. I would think that we are reasonably representative of CAP as a whole. Of course, the right people to do this for all of CAP would be at NHQ...

[LSThiker]

Same argument used when fingerprinting became  mandatory for all Senior Members

Just as a historical note, fingerprinting has been required since 1942 for both senior members and cadets.  When CAP was started, the OCD wanted all members fingerprinted and ran over to the FBI to check for possible spies and saboteurs. 

[MSG Mac]

Of course there is still the good old fashion waiver.  CAPR 35-5 1-8d.  They have made these waivers a little more difficult to process, but the ability to do so still exists.  There is also still CAPR 35-5 3-9 Exceptional Qualifications.  Both of these chapters and paras give the higher level leadership a free ticket to promote who they wish, without placing them in a COL slot.

There is one waiver of promotion requirement per CAP career and the same for Exceptional Qualifications. You give the impression that these actions are routine, but as Wing DP for 10 years, I only had 3 cross my desk. One was approved. 

[Eclipse]

Then you can't ever criticize any CAP member again for not following regs

We are dependent on their good will

Not the same thing, even a little.

This is akin to requiring a member to have a PPL in order to take off in a CAP plane, and then
radioing him in the air and telling him he needs an instrument rating to land.

Those that already have it just land and say "meh, whatever", those who have the ability
will complete things in the air, and those who can't will just circle until they run out of gas, and
then we lose them.

[MSG Mac]

Same argument used when fingerprinting became  mandatory for all Senior Members

Just as a historical note, fingerprinting has been required since 1942 for both senior members and cadets.  When CAP was started, the OCD wanted all members fingerprinted and ran over to the FBI to check for possible spies and saboteurs.

And wasn't reintroduced until the late 1980's.

[Eclipse]

Of course there is still the good old fashion waiver.  CAPR 35-5 1-8d.  They have made these waivers a little more difficult to process, but the ability to do so still exists.  There is also still CAPR 35-5 3-9 Exceptional Qualifications.  Both of these chapters and paras give the higher level leadership a free ticket to promote who they wish, without placing them in a COL slot.

There is one waiver of promotion requirement per CAP career and the same for Exceptional Qualifications. You give the impression that these actions are routine, but as Wing DP for 10 years, I only had 3 cross my desk. One was approved.

Yeah, that shouldn't even be counted on as an option.  "I can't find the time to do RSC and don't qualify for SOS." Is not an "exceptional qualification" fair or not.
No one is going to approve a Lt Col as an exceptional unless the Region HQ bathroom is locked, you have the only key, and they just served Chili Mac for lunch.

[JeffDG]

There is one waiver of promotion requirement per CAP career and the same for Exceptional Qualifications. You give the impression that these actions are routine, but as Wing DP for 10 years, I only had 3 cross my desk. One was approved.

Can you cite a regulation for that?

[lordmonar]

Not quite that drastic.  But the bottom line is that CAP has determined that these are the requirements needed for promotion.  Even if we grand fathered everyone now in CAP until they die those that joined tomorrow will be "screwed" or "punished". 

If we can't use the "shut up and color" argument for fear of losing members on this case.   How can we hold the sky gods to 60-1? Or the general member to 39-1?

Sure we need to be mindful of how it will impact our members.  But if they are going to quit because it is now a little harder to make Lt Col then maybe they should not be in CAP.   


Sure it sucks.  You think you got all boxes checked and now you got another one to check off.   Such is life.   

[Panache]

Same argument when the dreaded Maroon epaulets and fruit loops were introduced.

And didn't CAP take quite a hit in membership when the maroon epaulets were forced upon us?

[vento]

Not quite that drastic.  But the bottom line is that CAP has determined that these are the requirements needed for promotion.  Even if we grand fathered everyone now in CAP until they die those that joined tomorrow will be "screwed" or "punished". 
...

MSgt, with all due respect I don't think that is a fair statement.
People who were working on their PD had an expectation and goal in mind when they started the path, but the expectation changed midway.
Those that join tomorrow will not be screwed or punished because since day one they will be working toward the expectation they were taught to expect, unless National decides to change it again of course.

[Eclipse]

If we can't use the "shut up and color" argument for fear of losing members on this case.

SUAC is fine, when the leadership follows the mandates and provides the security inherent with
being good Shepard.  The current situation is "do as I say, not as I do", which only flies until you hit a bump.

How can we hold the sky gods to 60-1? Or the general member to 39-1?

If CAP ever starts holding people to anything, you can make that argument.  Right now, it doesn't.
It makes "suggestions" and then looks the other way, and we've been told by a recent former board member
that when commanders fail in their mandate, there is really nothing that can be done.