CAP grades

[lordmonar]

I think grade, and by extension rank should mean something a little more than it does.  I think CAP both in the many ways it awards grade and just the culture in general have made it not mean what I think it should.  Anyone can be a captain etc, for any number of different reasons... So then people start with position being more important than grade... and you have 2d Lt Squadron Commanders demanding due respect from a senior officer.

Squadron commanders are automatically promoted to 1st Lt.  There should be not 2d Lt Commanders.

If you are gonna do it that way, then you might as well have something like the CGAux model where grade is based on postion... Don't call 'em a captain, call 'em a Squadron Commander... but unlike the Aux, you don't get to keep the grade associated with a past office, you wear the grade that directly correlates to the position you hold.

Or we can keep with our current system and forget about rank meaning anything.  Why does it have to mean anything more than it already does?

I was a 1st Lt Commander with a Major in my squadron...never had any problems.  I am currently in a squadron with a Major commanding and we have a ton of Lt Cols and Col.  We even have a couple of retired one and two star generals in our squadron wearing Lt Col rank.

There is never a problem with subordination.

We default to positional authority not "earned grade" authority.  No problem.

I look at my Capt bars as a mark of my accomplishments not as a mark of my authority.

Now we could go an use the RAF rank structure, now that would be fun!

Pilot Officer
Flying Officer
Flight Lieutenant
Squadron Leader
Wing Commander
Group Captain
Air Commodore
Vice Air Marshall
Air Marshall

But then we would be back to a completely non standard rank system.

[MIKE]

Squadron commanders are automatically promoted to 1st Lt.  There should be not 2d Lt Commanders.

13. d. Squadron Commander. Wing commanders may advance a senior member to the grade of first lieutenant concurrent with the member's appointment as squadron commander. He or she becomes eligible for promotion to captain at the end of 1 year's service as squadron commander. NOTE: Commanders of State Legislative Squadrons may be advanced to the grade of lieutenant colonel concurrent with the member's appointment.

Emphasis added.

It's not automatic.

[DNall]

Let me jump back in here for a second. I have a lot ot say, but I gotta run so I want leave you with one brief comment before I go.

This conversation started about three moneth ago, springing from something you'd think is totally unrelated, NIMS. I'm sure most of you have seen the data coming down th epipe on that. It's not a question of if, but when CAP will move to full NIMS compliance in our ES program. When that happens & you go to a major mission - say hurricane on the Gulf Coast - CAP will no longer be assigned missions by some agency & run our own little show out of some airport doing piss ant work. CAP will be one of a hundred cogs in the national response, and ANY NIMS qualified IC, or PSC, OSC, AOBD, GBD be they a national guard officer, a captain at your local fire department, or a CAP officer would fully qualify & could VERY easily be placed in those positions for the entire multi-agency federal or state response to the natioanl emergency. It's extremely concievable in the next 3-5 years that a CAP Major NIMS quald AOBD can be called on to deploy & relieve a national guard Major serving in the same position & with command over state/federal civilian planes/crews, guard/res/AD military aviation units, and CAP & CGAux Air too.

Is is possible for a CAP member w/ no outside experience in emergency response to fill such a role & deserve the followership of those other parties? Can they come to the table with the leadership ability necessary to take command of real military personnel & other paid professional responders? What basis does that guard Major have to believe this person is of equal standing, competence, & ability? Can we inspire those above that our people, not the exception but the rule, meet & exceed those standards enough that they should be called on for such roles?

In other words, the whole emergency response community, military & civilian, are teaming up under NIMS & there is the real possibility that CAP officers will be standing in for real military officers in command of parts of a national or state response to major emergencies. We need to be ready. The idea springing from that was it's easy to meet the NIMS requirements, but that provides nothing in the way of merit based promotion paired w/ AF PME to make leaders that can execute the NIMS training. So, we went about figuring how to follow the AF example to make legitimate officers, seen as legit by the AF & everyone else because they meet close tot eh same standards - 80% was the number we used.

[Hawk200]

.....The Flight Officers do not rate.  I.e. they are not in charge of anything ...  They only need to know what they do. Our leaders will be Lts, Capts, Cols etc and they will be using the same system as the USAF

You know, something just occurred to me. There is a rank series in the Air Force that pretty much describes this type of rank bracket.  I've been in that rank bracket. They're called "airmen".

Even if you call them "flight officers", they will still be the CAP equivalent to the good old USAF airmen. So why not just implement airmen in CAP? Even when they do get out of the yard, and someone in the AF sees them, it won't take anyone by surprise.

[ZigZag911]

.....The Flight Officers do not rate.  I.e. they are not in charge of anything ...  They only need to know what they do. Our leaders will be Lts, Capts, Cols etc and they will be using the same system as the USAF

You know, something just occurred to me. There is a rank series in the Air Force that pretty much describes this type of rank bracket.  I've been in that rank bracket. They're called "airmen".

Even if you call them "flight officers", they will still be the CAP equivalent to the good old USAF airmen. So why not just implement airmen in CAP? Even when they do get out of the yard, and someone in the AF sees them, it won't take anyone by surprise.

I've given a lot of thought to some of these issues:

1) first, in terms of college degree requirement, probably should NOT be in place for CAP....instead, set standards, require ALL to meet them for promotion....set the bar fairly high, so that whoever can get over it measures up to the grade earned professionally, intellectually, in character and competence.

2) re-instate a full system of airman/NCO grades available to CAP adult members....put off the warrant officer/flight officer decision till this is up and running for several years....at various points in time USMC, USN and RAF have had enlisted pilots.....I know USAF never has, but perhaps CAP could!

3) 'grandfather' members in their rank at time of transition with two provisions:
            a) any further advancement demands meeting all new requirements
            b) offer the option for these folks to transition over to an appropriate NCO
                grade.....we have a fair number of people wearing bars & leaves who
                would really rather have stripes....they have more respect for AD NCO
                corps, and/or prefer not to be in line for command responsibility

[lordmonar]

.....The Flight Officers do not rate.  I.e. they are not in charge of anything ...  They only need to know what they do. Our leaders will be Lts, Capts, Cols etc and they will be using the same system as the USAF

You know, something just occurred to me. There is a rank series in the Air Force that pretty much describes this type of rank bracket.  I've been in that rank bracket. They're called "airmen".

Even if you call them "flight officers", they will still be the CAP equivalent to the good old USAF airmen. So why not just implement airmen in CAP? Even when they do get out of the yard, and someone in the AF sees them, it won't take anyone by surprise.

There is nothing wrong really with making a CAP enlisted corps.  The only thing I can think of is, how do you translate five levels of training into 9 levels of enlisted grade?  Not that it can't work, it would be easier to just create a new category of rank for the rank and file SMs instead of trying to fit our current Professional Development track into an existing rank structure.

I also perceive that there would be a great reluctance on part of our current SM to a move to enlisted ranks.  A retired BG already has to take a demotion to Lt Col....how would he feel if we made him an AB?!

Another aspect to be considered....Airman and NCO's are note viewed by the public the same as officers.  It may seem strange to an outsider to see a SSgt running high position at a mission base.

And again we come back to the problem that the rank does not really mean anything.  A CAP CMSGT is just some guy who completed a certain track of training and never stood up to take command.

When viewed by an AD USAF enlisted member or officer we would still have a mis-match between perceived responsibilities and real responsibilities.  But if those same people see a FO-6, they can quickly understand that he is a highly trained technician/pilot/professional who does not hold command responsibilities.

[lordmonar]

1) first, in terms of college degree requirement, probably should NOT be in place for CAP....instead, set standards, require ALL to meet them for promotion....set the bar fairly high, so that whoever can get over it measures up to the grade earned professionally, intellectually, in character and competence.

Wholy agree!

2) re-instate a full system of airman/NCO grades available to CAP adult members....put off the warrant officer/flight officer decision till this is up and running for several years....at various points in time USMC, USN and RAF have had enlisted pilots.....I know USAF never has, but perhaps CAP could!

Actually the USAF used to have WO ranks. 

3) 'grandfather' members in their rank at time of transition with two provisions:
            a) any further advancement demands meeting all new requirements
            b) offer the option for these folks to transition over to an appropriate NCO
                grade.....we have a fair number of people wearing bars & leaves who
                would really rather have stripes....they have more respect for AD NCO
                corps, and/or prefer not to be in line for command responsibility

As I stated below....how would you translate the current CAP PD/Promotion system into one that uses the enlisted ranks.  And replacing one meaningless system of ranks with another does not really address the problem of that the rank does not match the level of responsibilty.  An active duty MSgt has a lot more responsibilites compared to a rank and file CAP member of any rank.

[ELTHunter]

One problem I see with requiring the AF in-residence courses is that a lot of training would occur that has nothing to do with CAP.  As much as some folks may like to be, we are NOT the military.  We really don't need training on warfighting, and it may be counterproductive.

I can see requiring certain levels of assignment before being promoted.  I would also understand requiring service at the next lower level of organization before you can take a position.  Maybe you could also require a certain grade/service requirement before being allowed to take a command position.

Of course, all of this runs into the problem of then being able to fill positions.  Often, a position is filled only because someone agrees to do it, not because they are qualified.  We do have to remember that we are made up of unpaid volunteers who have other lives.

The problem with the current SLS, CLC type courses is that they teach how the CAP corporation is run, they do not neccessarily teach leadership and management principles.  We need some type of prof develpoment that helps CAP officers learn to develope those leadership skills along with the corporate side before they command squadrons, groups and wings.

[lordmonar]

One problem I see with requiring the AF in-residence courses is that a lot of training would occur that has nothing to do with CAP.  As much as some folks may like to be, we are NOT the military.  We really don't need training on warfighting, and it may be counterproductive.

I can see requiring certain levels of assignment before being promoted.  I would also understand requiring service at the next lower level of organization before you can take a position.  Maybe you could also require a certain grade/service requirement before being allowed to take a command position.

Of course, all of this runs into the problem of then being able to fill positions.  Often, a position is filled only because someone agrees to do it, not because they are qualified.  We do have to remember that we are made up of unpaid volunteers who have other lives.

The problem with the current SLS, CLC type courses is that they teach how the CAP corporation is run, they do not neccessarily teach leadership and management principles.  We need some type of prof develpoment that helps CAP officers learn to develope those leadership skills along with the corporate side before they command squadrons, groups and wings.

Concure....but on that same thread....the USAF PME course are not the best fit either.  I definatly think CAP could benifit from a more robust PME training.

[Al Sayre]

If you really wanted to do enlisted ranks for SM's, you could do it based on both level and ES Quals.

Example:  
AB = New Guy
Amn = AB+ Level 1 & CPPT+ Time in Grade (TIG)
A1C= Amn + GES + TIG
SrA = A1C+ UDF + TIG
SSgt = SrA + GT(1,2),MSA, MRO, MS, FLM (pick 1) + TIG  
TSgt = SSgt + Tech Rating + TIG
MSgt = TSgt + Level 2 + GT3, MSA, MRO, MO, FLS (pick 1) + TIG
SMSgt = MSgt + Senior Rating+ GTL, CUL, MO, IO, LO (pick 1)+ TIG
CMsgt = SMSgt + Level 3 + GBD, FRO, CUL, FASC, LSC + TIG

Master Rating = WO or FO rank or pehaps LDO status

Must transition to Officer for Level 4 & 5

IC, AL, AOBD, OSC, PSC and Chaplains would be limited to Officers only due to the nature of their jobs

Something along this line might work...YMMV

[MIKE]

What about people who don't do ES?

[DNall]

Okay, let me give some of these issues a whack...

Grade system:
We talked about several versions & what came out as the best was to use the AF enlisted system in this way... SM = AB, Lvl 1-5 = Amn to TSgt, MSgt to CMSgt are reserved for prior service OR use in a 1Sgt system that functions like an adult version of CAC. For the !sgt version, it's an elected office w/ temp grade, can keep the grade (w/o diamond) though if complete thru Lvl 5 & serve satisfactory for one year. Obviously the PD program in the current adult program could drop sopme things that are related to what would now be officer functions, and can pick up other content from the NCO PMEs (ALS, NCOA, SNCOA) & more focus on specialization (CP, AE, ES-NIMS).

The officer side we had the requirements at 21 & a college degree. You could start OTS though at 18 & stay an officer candidate till you finish the program & turn 21. The education was waiverable with a combination of 60hrs/associates AND either a special skill (pilot/EMT/LPN/NASAR instructor/etc), OR two years of professional business experience that could be related to staff officer duties. The point of the education, like in the military system, is as a gatekeeper to ensure you aren't taking the guy that fell off the back of the short bus. It is one phase of professional education that proves you will be able to deal with the coursework we'll require of you, which will all be at & above college level.

In addition to those requirements, the applicant must put together a package with letters of recommendation & a writing sample on why they want to be a CAP officer & what they bring to the table (make your case). They are then intensively interviewed & the descision to let them into OTS is up to a board at Wg which includes the state director (or they can appoint a non-CAP prior service/res/ANG field grade officer) specifically there to represent the interests of the AF - right there is the consent of the AF to make this person a CAP officer, and that should carry some weight with outsiders.

The format is based on ARNG OCS. The program involves a Wg appointed mentor in combination with computer modules. It's programmed to run one year, but can be stretched as needed within reason (say up to 3 years) if the person is busy. The one year schedule involves about 8hrs per month on the modules, plus making 90% of Sq mtgs, where they will serve as an asst to a staff position in the specialty field they've chosen, doing what amounts to a very advanced year long SDA & resulting in a tech rating. The mentor should be supervising their personal development & application of learned officer skills to the staff role they are working (that means papers, speeches, presentations, staff studies, etc). The content from the modules is taken as nearly as reasonable from AF OTS. Some of those are avail online now, and others can simply be videoed & put on the CD set. Some of the AF related material will stay so we have a shared understanding of the parent org, but the technical stuff that doesn't make the jump will be replaced w/ CAP specific material & a light reading list.

When the Officer Candidate finishes that process, they do a one-pager on what they've learned & why they believe they're ready to be an officer, the mentor turns in a report of their progress, the same Wg level promotions board from before w/ the AF rep decides if they are ready or need to spend another six months working on any particular items. If approved, then the Nat CC issues a certificate of appointment that says basically the same thing as a military commission, the candidate raises hand & swears oath, done deal.

Officer Progression:
First & foremost, this is a merit based system. While there are requirements to be met, doing so doesn't promote you, your actions do. The same board at the Wg level would deal with everything thru Capt, Maj.s at Region, LtCols at NHQ, basically where the approvals are now. Mind you now these are independent boards where the members vote by secret ballot & are not answerable to anyone, so as little politics as possible.

The next thing you do in the AF is the Air & Space Basic Course (OBC in the Army). The goal of this course is to take the sheltered theory of an officer training program & mold it into the reality of commanding troops, & ingraining the warriror spirit/mission-focused attitude. The CAP version of this plus 18mos get you pretty automatically to 1Lt.

Next comes advanced specialty education. Where you may have had a tech in one specialty during OTS, you now focus on the broader mission area (CP, AE, ES). Continuing education means courses &/or reading & papers on advanced topics, the specifics would have to be worked out. The concept though is moving you away from specialization & on to a generalist leader that can take charge of larger situations. This & 3 years gets you Captain, agian basically automatic if you do what you're supposed to & stay active, but you can be delayed if you suck or aren't very active.

You do top out at Capt, everything after that is exactly the opposite of automatic. Captain to Major requires 5 years, SOS from AFIADL, and a CAP course. What I have in mind here is something like UCC, but more designed to develop & identify future commanders. It should be the thing that seperates the staff officer from the line commander, both can get promoted, but you know which is which after this. This should be the level at which you're looking for people to command units & take Serious Wg staff jobs. The promotion board for this is at Region & it is competitive. The number of slots for each board should be limited based on percentages. That is something like no more than 80% of the applicants shoul dbe getting thru on the first try & the percentage of majors in the force versus lower grades - that's how the AF works it, we just don't want to end up top heavy again with people that aren't qual'd.

Maj to LtCol is around 8 years (these TIG numbers are supposed to be linked to the AF progression rate), & requires ACSC, and a CAP course. Most of the content at RSC now comes from AF OTS. We can rework that to capture the in-res aspect of ACSC. By that I mean the development of in depth strategic thinking. This is where you learn to look at the bigger picture & apply the things in the ACSC correspondence couse to CAP as an organization. The Legal/Chaplain/IG/HSO staff colleges will stay in place & can push their content up with the better quality students they'll get. You're no longer an operator, you're an organizational leader that may from time to time go on a mission to keep current & connected with the troops. You must complete this level to be eligible for command of a Wing. If you do command a Wg w/ only this level of progression, you'll do so as a LtCol.

Next comes AWC. The paper done there will be directed from a reading & topic list provided by CAP so as to push strategic study of the direction of CAP & aspects of our operations. With completion of this AND assignment to one of our current Colonel slots, you make & keep Col. You are not elligble for Region CC, Nat CC or VCC or any of the national officer slots unless you have completed AWC. NSC can be dropped cause I think we'll have well passed it by by now.

That's it! Real close to AF standards, w/ a goal of producing officers at each grade that are roughly 80% as qualified, competent,  capable, etc as an AF officer of the same grade. AF has a rep on the promotion board that allows you into officer training & at every promotion level. Their job isn't to block anything, but to ensure that 80% AF standards mark is being upheld in each individual that passes their desk.

[DrJbdm]

WOW.... DNall,  I want YOU as National CC!!

     Those are exactly some of the same things that I believe. If CAP is going to fully participate on the National or State level ES stage as a fully respected and valid member then we need to be capable of such. Right now I think alot of those people at that level, whether it's AD AF or ANG or Police Departments or Fire Departments view us as nothing more then a volunteer fire department that assists it's full time fire department by pulling hose. CAP bills itself as a fully mission capable asset to the National ES Homeland Security AF team but yet we fail to have even the slightest requirements to join.

  This is a sad but true fact, as of right now CAP will take anyone with a pulse, as long as he/she isn't a morally screwed up person. we will take such person and without regard to ANY other qualification we will appoint that person as a CAP Officer. Which means that the retarded kid down the street can join CAP and in 6 months be wearing 2Lt bars as a fully authorized appointed Officer in CAP/ USAF Aux.. Now ask yourself How does that sit with the people at the National or State level ES or Homeland Security agencies? or how does that sit with AD AF or ANG??? We have to hold our Officers far more accountable then what we do. Otherwise we will be viewed by these people as nothing more then a joke. We will find PLEANTY of people to recruit with the same wonderful standards as proposed by DNall. it would bring respect and legitimacy to the CAP/USAF Aux. If you can't meet the 80% rule then you can STILL serve but just not as an Officer. we are not turning anybody away with these standards, they can still join but just not as an Officer.

   Here's the thing, no one outside CAP really knows how our rank/grade system works. the public has no idea that CAP has NO NCO or enlisted grades and that ALL members are Officers. When they see the guy who fell off the back of the short bus wearing Officer rank they have to seriously question the ability of the CAP to operate in any capacity.

    Gentlemen, I do not intend to insult or offend anyone with my comments or my perceived lack of sensitivy towards those with problems, I'm only making a point. Forgive me if my comments offended anyone but do understand what I'm trying to say, CAP HAS to step up to the plate here in ES/Homeland Security roles and we can't do it realistically with the same structure as we have now. We need to change with the times, we have to first earn the respect of our AF  Parents or ANG counterparts. Thats what I'm saying.

DNall can I join your fan club?? lol.

[ELTHunter]

It would be better to build our own ECI course to take the place of SLS, CLO and the commanders course.  The USAF versions are just to USAF/AD oriented to be of much use.  I mean in the AWC they plan and execute a complete air campaign.  This is just not something a CAP officer would ever need and it would take a very sharp experienced officer to learn how to translate the good stuff for AWC into skills he can use to run his own squadron/group/wing.

However, rather than focusing on organization of CAP and outdated management theories like the existing professional development courses do, we should review the AF professional development courses and take what we can out of them that translates to developing a "professional" officer.

No...it would be better to consentrate and present our own CAP centric courses.  We need to teach SLS and CLP a lot more often by trained instructors on a regular basis.

SLS is really just the bare basics of CAP in general and squadron operations in particular.  It should be just an entry level orientation course.  That ought to be taken just to pass level I.

There is someting to the argument that we should only promote those above and beyond the general membership.  I would not be opposed to every SM being just flight officers and only staff officers and commanders having officer rank.  This would go a long way to correct a lot of problems with the "rank means nothing" crowd and will solve a lot of problems the FO's are having now.

Just because someone holds a staff position doe not mean they are more qualified, experienced,or better officer material than any other member.  In theory yes, but in practice, no.  Often times, staff positions are held by people that are minimally qualified but have the time to devote to the job.  The same can sometimes be said of commanders.  Which is part of the whole grade system gripe.  Many Captains, Majors, and Col.'s are around just because they were appointed to a command position and never were made to go through the professional development or time in grade hurdles the rest of us had to negotiate.

I will say...that requiring advanced education is NOT the way to go.  It is all good when you are talking about a 22 year old and giving him control of $15M airplane....but does not aways equate well when you are talking about a 40 year old business professional joining CAP for the first time.  You have to accept that life experience is sometime more important than a degree and that a BA is Advanced Basket Weaving does not make you ready for command while 20 years as a construction forman may be just the thing you want.

I agree to a certain extent.  I think it's a little unrealistic for a volunteer organization to rule some people out of being an officer just because they do not have a degree.  A degree does not necessarily mean a person is smarter than someone without one, and life experience does count for a lot.  However, generally speaking, someone with a degree is more apt to have the knowledge base, speaking, writing and communication skills to be better prepared to hold command and staff positions, and will most likely be a better reflection on the organization.  It's just a better indicator if you don't have a lot more to go on.  While a 20 year supervisor may be more in line with an NCO in the military.

[Al Sayre]

What about people who don't do ES?

Multiple Tech ratings + TIG?

I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there.  My personal opinion is that people should be involved in all facets unless they have a medical issue that prevents it. (That's going to get me flamed...)

[MIKE]

Even Aerospace? 

[DNall]

Thanks John, but that was a big team effort to come up with that plan. I'll say again that we WILL be moving to full comliance with NIMS. When that happens our officers WILL be placed in ICS command positions for multi-agency state & national response. CAP will not act independently as we've always done. there will be no CAP mission base. There will ONLY be the full blown big deal base & you could very well see a CAP Major in there as AOBD commanding the CG, ANG, ARNG aviation, Forestry service, state police, FEMA... the entire airspace  & every mission that occurs in it. Right now I hesitate to belive there is one person in all of CAP that's capable of doing anything like that, and if they are, it's not by benefit of anything they've done with CAP. We have to make real officers that can really command, & the perception from outside has to be that they are qualified, capable, & deserve to be followed by people that are being paid to be on that mission.


The current CAP PD program is just crap. It needs to be junked. SLS is second half of the first day entery level material. CLC is second day material. Streamline both & slam them into the LvL I course w/ CPPT & OPSEC. That & 5.5 months more gets you Amn, and you can apply for OTS while you're learning the basics.

[Hawk200]

There is nothing wrong really with making a CAP enlisted corps.  The only thing I can think of is, how do you translate five levels of training into 9 levels of enlisted grade?  Not that it can't work, it would be easier to just create a new category of rank for the rank and file SMs instead of trying to fit our current Professional Development track into an existing rank structure.

We're definitely not on the same page, lordmonar. I didn't say enlisted, I said airmen. You're talking about putting the training levels into 9 ranks, I'm looking at a system of only four grades. (Yeah, I mean the first four.)

If these folks had no real authority to do anything, then they don't need a rank system created for them. Give them an airmen grade. There's 5 training levels for officers, but there really doesn't need to be a whole lot for a rank bracket that's doing grunt work. Enough to teach them the basics, and make them useful. They don't need ECI 13 or RSC to be useful.

Also, considering that CAP can't promote NCO's, I don't think that we should have our NCO promotion system. I think the existing system of only prior service NCO's would be fine.  If we do promote, then I don't think that we should go beyond the junior NCO ranks. It takes a lot for a military senior NCO to make it that far, I don't think we should just hand out what it takes them far more to earn.

[RiverAux]

say again that we WILL be moving to full comliance with NIMS. When that happens our officers WILL be placed in ICS command positions for multi-agency state & national response.

This will depend entirely on the relationship that CAP has built within the local and state emergency management community.  While some CAP members certainly could be farmed out as specialists in a multi-agency command staff, the system we currently have now for managing ES missions isn't set up to handle it. 

Say your CAP unit has the best Information Officer in a three county area and that he is so well respected by the local agencies they ask him to come in and run their Joint Information Center after a snow emergency of some kind in which no other CAP resources are needed or are being used.  For this to be done as an AFAM, you would have to open up an entire mission just for this one guy and information on his activities would need to be kept track of.  CAP and CAP-USAF isn't really set up to handle these micro-missions effectively.  I don't think it would take many tweaks to the system though to make it more feasible.

 

[DNall]

I'm not sure everyone understand what NIMS is or how it works. Once you are certified by them, CAP doesn't matter anymore. CAP just becomes the people that train you ouside of those missions & coordinate requests for your help. The IC staff can theoretically call you direct & sign you into the mission & never tell CAP anything till after the fact. There is no CAP mission. You work for FEMA or who ever the lead agency is & CAP doesn't have anything to say about it. If the mission allows for AF funding, then the IC staff should contact CAP-USAF, but CAP still doesn't have anything to say about it. What are they gonna cut my pay?

What's very liable to happen is CAP crews requested out of the NOC show up & sign into the FEMA mission. Then one of those PIC happens to have AOBD on his NIMS card & the Natioanl Guard Major they have in the slot has been up 36hrs straight w/o a break. So, congrats you're now in charge of all aviation assets in three states. It doesn't matter who you work for, no one know who the helll you or anyone else is, all they see is your NIMS card & that's all that matters. Your ability to back up those technical skills with actual leadership & mgmt skills is assumed. You see in a paid agency, they wouldn't let just anyone train for AOBD. It's be a senior officer who has already demonstated those abilities to command before tehy've been allowed to train in the technical skills. If we go this route in CAP, then we'll have more staff qual'd people than any other agency in the country & we'll have them distributed geographically - sound familiar to the way we sell our ES ops now? Trust me. It'll take a long time when CAP realizes how far it has to go to live in this world, but when it gets there, there will be no halfway, it'll be all or nothing.