Having some coffee and want to talk about uniforms...

[Eclipse]

Right now I'm doing some vendor support for a HUGE medical information system conference in the Midwest - I found your stimulus money, its right here, literally.

Anyway, there's a pretty big military presence here, certainly big enough to notice, especially when the lion's share of your gig is waiting for something which is pretty stable to break.

So far I've seen USAF, USN & USA officers and NCOs in various flavors, but something struck me - the USAF and USN are in service dress, but the Army guys are all in ACU's.

Also, I've seen plenty of single & double bars, oaks, and even a bird (first time I've seen an active USAF person wearing the cardigan sweater), but the Army guys are all Lt. Cols.

So...nothing to do with CAP, really, but I don't have anywhere else to ask something like this, and the only place I can get wifi is at the closed SB downstairs....

[NIN]

The Army gets married & buried in ACUs, I swear.

The Association of the US Army's annual meeting is a big event each year.   The uniform for the "Opening Ceremony" is a key indicator:

2006:  Specified Uniform: Dress Blues or Class A.   Number of people in ACUs: too few to even worry about.

2007: Specified Uniform: Dress Blues or Class A, then ACUs (depending on what document you read).  Number of people  in ACU: a fair number, but surely not everybody. Probably 75 or 85% of the room was in a dress or service uniform.

2008: Specified Uniform: ACUs.   Number of people in dress or service uniforms?  Something approaching zero.

[PaulR]

I remember the days when the fatigue uniform(camies and working uniforms) were only allowed while working on base, with the only exception being driving to and from work.  Stopping for gas and ect was allowed, otherwise the service dress uniforms had to be worn.

How things have changed!

[PHall]

I remember the days when the fatigue uniform(camies and working uniforms) were only allowed while working on base, with the only exception being driving to and from work.  Stopping for gas and ect was allowed, otherwise the service dress uniforms had to be worn.

How things have changed!

It's still that way in the Air Force, Navy and Marines. The Army just seems to have a unhealthy obsession with the ACU.

[caplegalnc]

We are a nation at war; therefore,  we are wearing ACU's.  That is message we have been given at my level.

Ron Justice
CW2 JA USAR

[Flying Pig]

If thats their justification, then where are their weapons?  I dont agree with it.  But Im no longer in the military. I was in the Marines and in the Army.  I can vouch from personal experience that the Army was always very lax when it came to uniforms compared to the Marines.

Fast forward a few years.  I was sitting in an airport waiting area.  There was a Marine Cpl. sitting in his Alphas, looking very squared away.  A couple rows over, were a couple of Soldiers in their ACU's, with their Camelbacks on. Because I guess we just cant walk to the drinking fountain.  A woman sitting near me asked her husband "I know he is a Marine, but what are the guys in Camouflage?"  He responded, "I think those are ROTC Cadets of some type."  Not to mention they were acting like kids.  I let out a slight chuckle.  There is no reason for military personnel to be traveling in Cammies, ACU's ABU's or whatever in CONUS.  It looks like crap.  But my 8 years are over.  So I guess things change.

[ZigZag911]

The Army has been wearing  BDUs (goes back that far) as their "default uniform of the day" since the late 80s or early 90s, at least.

The thinking, as explained to me by a retired NCO, is that it is a combat uniform (promoting the warrior culture) and, from a practical standpoint, more durable, easier and less expensive to maintain than any of the service combinations.

While I see their point, I think they look ridiculous testifying before Congress in the ACU (the officers physically present; those on video from a combat zone is another matter).....just my opinion.

[Cecil DP]

The Army has been wearing  BDUs (goes back that far) as their "default uniform of the day" since the late 80s or early 90s, at least.

The thinking, as explained to me by a retired NCO, is that it is a combat uniform (promoting the warrior culture) and, from a practical standpoint, more durable, easier and less expensive to maintain than any of the service combinations.

While I see their point, I think they look ridiculous testifying before Congress in the ACU (the officers physically present; those on video from a combat zone is another matter).....just my opinion.

I recall when military were told not to fly in any uniform, because of events on a hijacked TWA flight in the 80's. It made them a target of the hijackers and one was executed in the door of the jet. Now everyone wears the uniform. I can't see wearing the ACU's unless you're on a military charter to/from the sandbox. Otherwise Class A's or civilian clothing.

[hatentx]

As it was explained to me as well was the reason we wear ACUs to everything is that it is the Nation at War thing.  I have even been encouraged to wear my ACUs when I am not around post for the purpose of reminding the public that we are at war.  That was a CSM's words not mine.  I have even seen for promotion boards that rather waering the Class A uniform they have the soldiers show up in ACUs with OTV and ACH now.  With the current change over of the Class A uniform I can see for uniformity reasons the ACUs when appropriate but as for prior to this time eh who knows.  Someone with a much higher pay grade than me is making this rule.  While the ACUs are a utility uniform and I understand this it is so easly to present your self like garbage in them as well.  While I have uniforms I know are not my best and boots the look like garbage this are unifroms I wear with the knowledge of going to the field ranges or doing serious work.  Same as I did in the BDUs.  With the BDUs though you could presnt your self much better as being squard away with nice creases and spit shined  boots, ACUs you have the option of New ACUs and new boots to look squared away.  

[DBlair]

I support the Marine perspective- as it is a utility uniform, then it should only be for utility purposes.

Its not like any branch has just a single uniform, but instead, they have utility and dress combinations of varying formality. Thus, how about using these different combinations in that unless you are in the field or working on something requiring such a uniform, then a more appropriate uniform should be prescribed.

I watched a panel presentation a while back and it included the one of the cabinet Secretaries (If I remember correctly, it was the Sec of Defense) wearing a suit (as were the moderator and most of the audience), and Generals of each branch- all of whom where in Class A with the exception being the Army General.

With the exception of the Army General, the rest looked like Generals should, but the Army General looked more like a PFC than a General. It made him look sloppy, unprofessional, and out of place as if he didn't get the memo about the uniform of the day. I think rather than boosting morale, it makes Soldiers look sloppy and like they don't understand which uniform to wear at what function.

There is a time and place for each uniform- just like you wouldn't see a Marine in full blues fighting in the sandbox, the Army shouldn't be wearing ACUs on occasions normally deemed for Class A uniforms.

[heliodoc]

For twenty one years, I served this country as many on this forum

I look at it this way, We (CAP) can not get it together with our uniforms, so we best be careful on our speculations about how and why the RM Chain of Command does its thing

We as CAP may not like what we see at the airports,  I served in the era of early terrorism, before it was a 9/11 buzzword.  Terrorism was at a height in the 1980's but not on our soil.

When CAP gets it together in its own arena of correct uniform wear, I may be able to easier to swallow ALL the commentary here about the our RM boys and girls.

Hey , CAPers maybe you ought to write the chains of commands about all that ACU wear and how trashy it looks to YOU.

To us former and current service members, we are FOLLOWING what our chain of command directs us to wear.

It a beautiful thing, to have freedoms on this forum to be critical, 'cuz it was folks who either were drafted or volunteered to be in the RM, to give you those freedoms.  But I would pretty much keep the commentary on " how unsqaured " away the ACU looks.  It was't the NCO's or the Officers that picked that uniform

I have seen just as MANY ragtag CAPers in BDU's and Class A's

Want my commentary on that???

[hatentx]

haha dont get me started on the things we wear for espirt de coprs and  such  

[Flying Pig]

Again, as a former Marine and former Soldier.....I think they need to save the cammies for the field.  I have a question for the current Army Soldiers.  Are you directed to wear the ACUs, for example, when traveling, or is it a choice?

[citizensoldier]

The Army has been wearing  BDUs (goes back that far) as their "default uniform of the day" since the late 80s or early 90s, at least.

The thinking, as explained to me by a retired NCO, is that it is a combat uniform (promoting the warrior culture) and, from a practical standpoint, more durable, easier and less expensive to maintain than any of the service combinations.

While I see their point, I think they look ridiculous testifying before Congress in the ACU (the officers physically present; those on video from a combat zone is another matter).....just my opinion.

I recall when military were told not to fly in any uniform, because of events on a hijacked TWA flight in the 80's. It made them a target of the hijackers and one was executed in the door of the jet. Now everyone wears the uniform. I can't see wearing the ACU's unless you're on a military charter to/from the sandbox. Otherwise Class A's or civilian clothing.

Didn't have alot of choice on what I wore flying home on leave from the land of endless sand.  ACUs from BIAP to Ali Al Saleem to the States.  It is a different world and a different Army in a number of ways.  There is now aparently even a "Ceremonial ACU" where full color patches are worn unless they killed that off.

CS

[heliodoc]

Rob

Not going to argue with you.  Been out for awhile and I understand how you feel being a former Marine.  Army and Marines, two different services and beliefs, one common goal on the battefield......

But you served as well as I did, not like we had a choice from the chains of command we operated under

[Pumbaa]

Uniform weenies are out in force....

Perhaps when CAP gets it right then you can comment...

[hatentx]

Again, as a former Marine and former Soldier.....I think they need to save the cammies for the field.  I have a question for the current Army Soldiers.  Are you directed to wear the ACUs, for example, when traveling, or is it a choice?

Again by my COC the guidance is that it depends on the travel and by what mode it is.  Like with out trip to the port recently it was ACUs.  It was in a TMP and a 6 hour trip mind you.  Last time I flew commercial for the Army was in ACUs as well only being that it was my duty uniform for the Veteran thing a town was throwing for us so slightly different there as well.  As best as I can tell now is if it was for officail military buisness then yes you are in ACUs.  The only time I have flown in Class A's was in AIT for Exodus and after graduation.  I dont know if it was a time thing(2004) or because I was at a TRADOC post or just cause I was in AIT.  I have not moved or travel on a military flight or such after then, so when I PCS and such it is real people clothes.  

[capchiro]

I am happy to say that I just returned from Wing Conference and out of almost 200 attendees, I only saw 2-3 out of uniform or with uniform violations.  I even saw one senior in a proper flight suit and he dropped in to give current information on the mission he just flew doing flood assessment due to rising waters in the immediate area.  I don't believe that I saw even one of the double breasted blue jackets.  Everyone looked good and were standing tall.  I am proud to be a member of this great organization and most especially this Wing.  National Commander was there and she was great.  We had a town hall meeting and I believe we were all impressed with her knowledge and enthusiasm of and for the program.  We have a lot of great things coming down the pike in the near future.  More homeland security and CD missions.  To my observation, it looks like we have our uniforms in order. 

[Eclipse]

For twenty one years, I served this country as many on this forum

...snip...

I have seen just as MANY ragtag CAPers in BDU's and Class A's

Want my commentary on that???

You know what helio?  I really don't.  Your self-loathing is really getting old.

This, as I said, literally has nothing to do with CAP, simply an observation I was / am making about an event I am
participating in.  I didn't say it was negative or positive, I merely said it was, and was curious about it.

I made no comparisons to CAP's wear of the uniform, nor did anyone else, and I believe, without exception, those who commented were well within their rights and personal experience as current or ex-military.

For the record, everyone I saw looked sharp, it was simply the paradigm of the services I was interested in, and I appreciate those who answered and shared a valued non-confrontational opinion without dragging CAP into the conversation.

[NIN]

There is now aparently even a "Ceremonial ACU" where full color patches are worn unless they killed that off.

I saw something about that and I was just disgusted beyond belief...

What pogue in the bowels of the Pentagon came up with that brilliant idea?