Main Menu

Recruiting a Chaplain

Started by Walkman, September 06, 2012, 02:01:28 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Walkman

We'd like to get a Chaplain in our unit. We're in a decent size metro area (250k within 15-20minutes), with the nearest military base 30 mikes away. I've check some people in my network that are connected to local ministers to see if their contacts have an interest, but no bites.

Any ideas other than sending letters to every church in the phone book?

Flying Pig

I would contact the base you mentioned. I eould also contact the surrounding LE amd Fire agencies. Most have chaplains on call that may be interested or know people who would be. Thats nice because you dont need to explain what the word "volunteer" means to them.

Critical AOA

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

Walkman

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 06, 2012, 01:44:47 PM
Why?

CC would like one. I'd also like one so I can have one less job. I like working with the cadets as CDI, but I've got lots on my plate.

No big, grand scheme to it.

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

Walkman

Technically, that's not correct. I know as I'm in the process of being fully certified as a CDI.

You need:
1. At least 60 accredited college credit hours
2. Letter of endorsement from their local religious leader (has to be from a faith recognized by the DoD Armed Forces Chaplains Board) that the applicant is "spiritually, morally and emotionally qualified" to teach CD
2. Held a leadership position in the "church/other religious equivalent setting" for two years
3. Interview with Wing Chaplain
4. Application approved by Region Chaplain

Yes, a CC can appoint someone to teach the discussions, but to be an official CDI, you need the above. Otherwise, look for a ding on your SUI.

Please, let's not let this thread devolve into an argument about Chaplains, religion blah, blah blah. I was just looking to see if anyone had any previous experience in this.


Eclipse

Quote from: Walkman on September 06, 2012, 04:12:47 PM
Technically, that's not correct. I know as I'm in the process of being fully certified as a CDI.

There's nothing technical about it.

Neither a Chaplain, nor a CDI is required to facilitate CD discussions.

If you want to be a CDI, great.  If your unit CC thinks he needs a Chaplain, great, but neither is a required staff position, nor
will not having one generate anything but a "not evaluated" on the SUI.

"That Others May Zoom"

Critical AOA

So to be a CDI, you have to belong to a religious organization and be evaluated by that organization's clergy and two levels of CAP clergy.  All of that to be certified in character development.  So a non-religious person / agnostic / atheist would not be qualified no matter how great his or her character and how moral they might be.  It seems as if they are saying that if you don't have a religious belief then you are not moral enough or of good character.  That is amazingly ridiculous.   I am surprised that this is allowed in an organization like CAP. 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

Flying Pig

I would say if your having the trouble, go the route I suggested.  Contact you local LE or FD.  Or if you have a local Guard or Reserve Unit as well.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 06, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
So to be a CDI, you have to belong to a religious organization and be evaluated by that organization's clergy and two levels of CAP clergy.  All of that to be certified in character development.  So a non-religious person / agnostic / atheist would not be qualified no matter how great his or her character and how moral they might be.  It seems as if they are saying that if you don't have a religious belief then you are not moral enough or of good character.  That is amazingly ridiculous.   I am surprised that this is allowed in an organization like CAP.

Chaplain Mafia at the National Level. :)

Guess I'm going to hell AND not able to corrupt any cadets as an atheist.

dogboy

Quote from: Walkman on September 06, 2012, 02:01:28 AM
We'd like to get a Chaplain in our unit. We're in a decent size metro area (250k within 15-20minutes), with the nearest military base 30 mikes away. I've check some people in my network that are connected to local ministers to see if their contacts have an interest, but no bites.

Any ideas other than sending letters to every church in the phone book?

Almost every area has a local "Council of Churches". Eg: "Happy Valley Council of Churches.

They might be able to help. One thing I would suggest is that you consider what kind of faith your membership would be comfortable with. My experience is that most chaplains are Evangelical Christians which is not to everyone's taste.

Walkman

Quote from: dogboy on September 07, 2012, 03:08:29 AM
...which is not to everyone's taste.

Right on. When I've been asking around my network, I've been stressing the point about Chaplains needing to be able to work with those of all faiths and those with none. It takes a special kind of person to be a Chaplain properly.

RRLE

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 06, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
So a non-religious person / agnostic / atheist would not be qualified no matter how great his or her character and how moral they might be.

Why do certain lines from Alice's Resturant keep going thru my head?  >:D

Walkman

Quote from: dogboy on September 07, 2012, 03:08:29 AM
Almost every area has a local "Council of Churches". Eg: "Happy Valley Council of Churches.

Thanks for that lead. I found a large interfaith group online in my area, made up of people from many faiths (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc). The organization is all about different religions working together, which gives me the thought it would be a good place to start looking for someone who can fulfill that kind of role as a Chaplain.

Critical AOA

Quote from: RRLE on September 07, 2012, 11:00:43 AM
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 06, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
So a non-religious person / agnostic / atheist would not be qualified no matter how great his or her character and how moral they might be.

Why do certain lines from Alice's Resturant keep going thru my head?  >:D

Such as? 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

Critical AOA

Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 07, 2012, 02:28:30 AM
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 06, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
So to be a CDI, you have to belong to a religious organization and be evaluated by that organization's clergy and two levels of CAP clergy.  All of that to be certified in character development.  So a non-religious person / agnostic / atheist would not be qualified no matter how great his or her character and how moral they might be.  It seems as if they are saying that if you don't have a religious belief then you are not moral enough or of good character.  That is amazingly ridiculous.   I am surprised that this is allowed in an organization like CAP.

Chaplain Mafia at the National Level. :)

Guess I'm going to hell AND not able to corrupt any cadets as an atheist.

As an athiest, I am not worried about hell as the place does not actually exist.  As for corrupting cadets or young folks in general, I'll leave that to the priests / preachers.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

Chappie

#16
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 06, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
So to be a CDI, you have to belong to a religious organization and be evaluated by that organization's clergy and two levels of CAP clergy.  All of that to be certified in character development.  So a non-religious person / agnostic / atheist would not be qualified no matter how great his or her character and how moral they might be.  It seems as if they are saying that if you don't have a religious belief then you are not moral enough or of good character.  That is amazingly ridiculous.   I am surprised that this is allowed in an organization like CAP.

That issue is being addressed.  The following was posted in July for "Publications Under Review":

CAPR 265-1, The Civil Air Patrol Chaplain Corps For Comment Only (Pending Formal Page-Insert Change)

Note: Shaded areas identify new or revised material.

4. Character Development Instructors. Character development instructors (CDIs) are required to be recommended by a reputable member of their community IAW paragraph 7a(2). CDIs are a part of the CAP Chaplain Corps and are appointed to provide character development instruction in the cadet program. They will not use the title "Chaplain" nor wear chaplain insignia. When duly appointed and upon completion of technician training, CDIs may wear the service badge. Only appointed and endorsed chaplains are authorized to provide ministry as clergy within CAP. Clergy ministry includes: religious ministrations (worship services, baptisms, communion, funerals); solemnizing of events; confidentiality and/or privileged communications. CAP members who are ordained ministers serving in the capacity of CDI are not granted confidentiality or privileged communication in CAP. When working under the guidance of a chaplain, CAP members may provide non-clergy support for chaplain professional ministry. CAP members may offer non-denominational prayers in the absence of a unit chaplain. Commanders will endeavor to make character development instruction available during cadet meetings for no less than 1 hour per month. Commanders may temporarily lead the character development session but should strive to recruit a chaplain or character development instructor as soon as possible. The CDI works under the direction of a chaplain designated by the wing chaplain. When no chaplain is assigned to a unit, the CDI works directly for the commander while maintaining liaison with the wing chaplain.

7. Character Development Instructor Appointment.

a. A CDI must first become a senior member. Once the individual has become a member and completed Level I, he/she may apply for the CDI position by completing a CAPF 35a, Character Development Instructor Application. CDI applications are processed through the wing chaplain who verifies that:

(1) The applicant has a minimum of 60 semester hours (90 quarter hours) of college study beyond the high school diploma. The minimum of 60 semester hours (90 quarter hours) must be attained from a college or university listed in the current edition of the American Council on Education (ACE), Accredited Institutions of Post-secondary Education and relevant ACE supplements to that publication.


(2) The applicant has a letter of recommendation from a reputable member of his or her local community attesting that the member is morally and emotionally qualified to serve as a character development instructor.

No further changes.


There has not been a final action taken as the comments are being considered....but as you can see there is a change in the wind.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

Chappie

Quote from: Eclipse on September 07, 2012, 07:50:27 PM
What need do CDI's fulfill?

Time and space does not permit the posting of the history behind the MLO/CDI which came into existence in 1996. Sadly, the specialty track has not be revised or updated since 1999.  This has been troublesome and cause for concern.  Steps are being taken to correct many of issues and concerns that have been voiced since the inception of this specialty.  A new specialty track is on the horizon which should be comparable to that of a AEO or Safety Officer.  The goal is to provide both training and tools to assist a CDI in presenting this required element of the cadet programs.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Walkman

Quote from: Eclipse on September 07, 2012, 07:50:27 PM
What need do CDI's fulfill?

I think the main advantage to having this as a Specialty Track is training. I've seen some pretty bad CD sessions. I think, done correctly, it's a valuable part of the cadet program. Having people dedicated to doing the job and giving them some good training goes a long way.

Eclipse

Yes, the element is required, however there is no requirement that it be presented by clergy, nor should there ever be.

"That Others May Zoom"

Chappie

Quote from: Walkman on September 07, 2012, 03:28:31 AM
Quote from: dogboy on September 07, 2012, 03:08:29 AM
...which is not to everyone's taste.

Right on. When I've been asking around my network, I've been stressing the point about Chaplains needing to be able to work with those of all faiths and those with none. It takes a special kind of person to be a Chaplain properly.

That it does.   Just because one serves or has served as a pastor/priest/rabbi/ or other title in a local congregation does not necessarily translate in being a chaplan.  One of the responsibilities of a chaplain is be a defender and protector of each person's First Amendment's rights. 
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chappie

Quote from: Walkman on September 07, 2012, 08:22:47 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 07, 2012, 07:50:27 PM
What need do CDI's fulfill?

I think the main advantage to having this as a Specialty Track is training. I've seen some pretty bad CD sessions. I think, done correctly, it's a valuable part of the cadet program. Having people dedicated to doing the job and giving them some good training goes a long way.

Amen to that!!!   In addition, providing approval curriculum protects all parties as well as providing standardized character development training.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Walkman

Quote from: Eclipse on September 07, 2012, 08:22:56 PM
Yes, the element is required, however there is no requirement that it be presented by clergy, nor should there ever be.

I agree with you there. I thought you were going in a different direction. I like the new proposal the Chappie outlined so we can open up the track to more people.

dogboy

Quote from: Chappie on September 07, 2012, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: Walkman on September 07, 2012, 03:28:31 AM
Quote from: dogboy on September 07, 2012, 03:08:29 AM
...which is not to everyone's taste.

Right on. When I've been asking around my network, I've been stressing the point about Chaplains needing to be able to work with those of all faiths and those with none. It takes a special kind of person to be a Chaplain properly.

That it does.   Just because one serves or has served as a pastor/priest/rabbi/ or other title in a local congregation does not necessarily translate in being a chaplan.  One of the responsibilities of a chaplain is be a defender and protector of each person's First Amendment's rights.

Exactly and far better phrased than my original post. Of course an Evangelical Christian could be excellent chaplain if he respects the faiths or lack of a faith of others.

a2capt


Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 07, 2012, 07:19:26 PMSuch as?
Repeat all between "I went over to the sergeant" and "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send you fingerprints off to Washington.".

Майор Хаткевич

I've always had my doubts about "Moral Leadership" and "Character Development". Best left up to the family where it belongs.

No CAP ML/CD sessions changed my thoughts/beliefs/opinions. By the time we get people into these discussions opinions are ingrained based on upbringing and experience.


Flying Pig

Yeah, if you have a family.

^Then you take my unit where we had kids who lived in pretty tough Hispanic gang neighborhoods who parents dropped them off and left.  No dads, coming to CAP bringing their "culture" to CAP where mad-dogging someone you didnt like is considered acceptable, even senior members.  Challenging someone to fight if they raised their voice at you.  We had 3 cadets that were there when I was the CC who were about one more step away from being booted.  With the help of the Chaplain, a Deputy Commander who was a former Oakland school teacher each one of those cadets are now getting ready to enlist, have graduated HS and one is applying to college ROTC.  Were we having church services during meeting nights?  No, but just because religion or the concept of a God has no place in someones life, doesnt mean that it cant have a profound impact on someone else.  Ive never, in my 20+ yrs in CAP ever seen the concept of a Chaplaincy ruin a program.  By the time you get cadets that are 13-14 yrs old, I would be pretty hard pressed to say that many of them have anything ingrained.  I can point to....now that I think about it, at least 4 cadets who are now out of HS and moving on with their lives that I can guarantee you would not have made it without CAP.  And I know the Chaplains played a role in each of them.  So character is a learned behavior.  Their "families" taught them how to front people off and challenge people to fight.  CAP taught them that it wasnt acceptable and that there was a different road.  Was the Chaplain 100% responsible?  No.  But he definitely played a role. 

We can argue all day whether or not religion has a place in CD (not counter drug >:D)  But I think anyone here would be hard pressed to find any real incidents of where is been a bad idea.

AngelWings

Chaplains are SO MUCH more than religous figures in the sense that CAP uses them. They're simply human beings you could trust and talk to mano-a-mano. It's pretty simple, really. I am a protestant, and proud of it. I've had serious talks WITHOUT religous being a factor with a catholic chaplain. They're there to support us much more than it seems. I have an added level of respect for chaplains because they are decent human beings above anything else.

SarDragon

While not a regular church attendee, I've been to a large variety of services here and there. One constant in most of the denominations I've encountered is a set of values. CAP has a set of core values that we try to adhere to, and the Character Development (CD) folks can add a real world relevance and expansion on them. Discussing ethical situations seems like a good way to do this.

As long as a Chaplain isn't imparting a specific religious flavour to the CD sessions, something I have encountered, I have no issues with the program.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 09, 2012, 05:42:29 PM
Yeah, if you have a family.

^Then you take my unit where we had kids who lived in pretty tough Hispanic gang neighborhoods who parents dropped them off and left.  No dads, coming to CAP bringing their "culture" to CAP where mad-dogging someone you didnt like is considered acceptable, even senior members.  Challenging someone to fight if they raised their voice at you.  We had 3 cadets that were there when I was the CC who were about one more step away from being booted.  With the help of the Chaplain, a Deputy Commander who was a former Oakland school teacher each one of those cadets are now getting ready to enlist, have graduated HS and one is applying to college ROTC.  Were we having church services during meeting nights?  No, but just because religion or the concept of a God has no place in someones life, doesnt mean that it cant have a profound impact on someone else.  Ive never, in my 20+ yrs in CAP ever seen the concept of a Chaplaincy ruin a program.  By the time you get cadets that are 13-14 yrs old, I would be pretty hard pressed to say that many of them have anything ingrained.  I can point to....now that I think about it, at least 4 cadets who are now out of HS and moving on with their lives that I can guarantee you would not have made it without CAP.  And I know the Chaplains played a role in each of them.  So character is a learned behavior.  Their "families" taught them how to front people off and challenge people to fight.  CAP taught them that it wasnt acceptable and that there was a different road.  Was the Chaplain 100% responsible?  No.  But he definitely played a role. 

We can argue all day whether or not religion has a place in CD (not counter drug >:D )  But I think anyone here would be hard pressed to find any real incidents of where is been a bad idea.

And for every extreme on your side, I can think of three on the other side. CAP is NOT tasked with morality education. 2 hours a week won't do it.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: AngelWings on September 10, 2012, 12:52:57 AM
Chaplains are SO MUCH more than religous figures in the sense that CAP uses them. They're simply human beings you could trust and talk to mano-a-mano. It's pretty simple, really. I am a protestant, and proud of it. I've had serious talks WITHOUT religous being a factor with a catholic chaplain. They're there to support us much more than it seems. I have an added level of respect for chaplains because they are decent human beings above anything else.

I can say that about pretty much most of the SMs I encountered as a cadet. In fact, just knowing the chaplains I did, and the fact that they did bring up god constantly meant that I avoided them like the plague and reached out to "plain" SMs who could actually help without putting everything into a sermon.

Walkman

Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 09, 2012, 07:00:10 AM
I've always had my doubts about "Moral Leadership" and "Character Development". Best left up to the family where it belongs.

No CAP ML/CD sessions changed my thoughts/beliefs/opinions. By the time we get people into these discussions opinions are ingrained based on upbringing and experience.

I agree that those are things that should be taught primarily at home. When I do a CD session, I try to take the scenarios and have the cadets think through their responses and ideas through the lens of their upbringing personal code of ethics. I stress that these discussions are to help them develop a more firm foundation of decision making within their personal beliefs by having them encounter situations and think through their reactions, so when issues like this come up later in life there's already something to go from.

The reason I take this approach is that this is what I'd want for my kids. We have certain beliefs as a family, and we work hard as parents to continually nurture and develop those in our children. But we're not together 24/7. So if I have a child that's a cadet, the CD program is a way to give them another opportunity to have the things I teach them at home reinforced in a way.

I really try hard to not inject any leading philosophy into the classes and guide the discussion in ways that that allow for more personal interpretations. I don't see how it's a bad thing when done properly.

Walkman

Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 10, 2012, 01:44:44 AM
I can say that about pretty much most of the SMs I encountered as a cadet. In fact, just knowing the chaplains I did, and the fact that they did bring up god constantly meant that I avoided them like the plague and reached out to "plain" SMs who could actually help without putting everything into a sermon.

I'm sorry you've had poor experiences as a cadet in this. This is precisely the reason I was seeking some guidance on recruiting. Our CC would like a Chaplain. I'm the Recruiting Officer, so I'm working on it. But I can truly relate to those that have felt religious persecution, so I don't want to just call down the list of churches in the phone book and end up grabbing the first one that happens to pick up. The right person doing the job as it is intended benefits the unit. The wrong person who tries to turn the position as their own personal ministry (whatever the faith) is a detriment.

Private Investigator

I would recruit my minister as a Chaplain first. If he was not interested I would ask the other members of the Squadron to speak to their clergy. You could also see if another CAP Squadron has a Chaplain and could provide support. I know one Chaplain that goes to four different Squadrons when needed.

Good luck 

Cool Mace

Have you checked to see if there's a Chaplain on a base near you?
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.