Grassroots PT for CAP Officers

[Major Carrales]

While we have a long CAP Officer PT thread, I would like to start this topic in direction that is more "applicable."

Here's the premise...

"All things we would like to see happen and become policy are likely to reach fruition if a "grassroots" movement can be generated."

Thus, can we start a PT for Seniors that is voluntary at the Squadron level?

If so, what should it be.  Can we design it here an dimplement it?

I am in need of guidance for exercise an would like to be as fit as possible.

Shall we design a CAP Officer PT program?

[DNall]

You a doctor Joe? I'm not. Plus why design a program when 3-4 nationally recognized ones exist, chiefly the Presidential fitness challenge, we already involve our cadets in, which reaches up to an age graduated system for adults as I understand it. Then there's the issue of voluntary. Meaning the people that are willing to do such a voluntary program already are, and people that need it won't do so voluntarily.

If you really need guidance though, & you're not jsut saying that, I'll post some resources you can look into.

[Major Carrales]

You a doctor Joe? I'm not. Plus why design a program when 3-4 nationally recognized ones exist, chiefly the Presidential fitness challenge, we already involve our cadets in, which reaches up to an age graduated system for adults as I understand it. Then there's the issue of voluntary. Meaning the people that are willing to do such a voluntary program already are, and people that need it won't do so voluntarily.

If you really need guidance though, & you're not jsut saying that, I'll post some resources you can look into.

My point is that the other thread was leading nowhere and, if PT means so much to us all, we should design a grassroots version of it we can opt into.  It can be an already designed program in existance, but we should resolve to follow one.

Then, once we have a significant number of CAP Officers already doing PT, it can be made into policy.

Of course, there are those that say there is no problem to solve.

[flyerthom]

I've heard it bounced around in HSO circles. One excellent suggestion is a program already in place:

http://www.presidentschallenge.org/

It has sections for all stages of our membership, youth, adult, senior adult.

Worth a look because it's not just traditional exercise, it's active life style.

[Major Carrales]

I've heard it bounced around in HSO circles. One excellent suggestion is a program already in place:

http://www.presidentschallenge.org/

It has sections for all stages of our membership, youth, adult, senior adult.

Worth a look because it's not just traditional exercise, it's active life style.

I like the idea of an Active Lifestyle, many of us work and volunteer in various ways that leave us little time for organized exercise.

[DNall]

That's all that was suggested in the other thread. The problem there was people not understanding what was being said & mixing up a seperate conversation about standards for ES. A lot of our members do try to stay active & in shape. I don't think it'd be bad to have them logging it in this program so we can see the truth & push back on some stereoypes while making some others feel guilty enough to get out & walk a few blocks every so often. That's part of the HSO program though, a big part actually. You have to wait for that to develop. The other thread was talking about how to get uniform standards slackened by requireing such a program, and the degree to which it'd be otherwise useful to CAP duties.

[flyerthom]

"I like the idea of an Active Lifestyle, many of us work and volunteer in various ways that leave us little time for organized exercise."

Wish I knew where CPR fits in there though. I did a 1/2 hour of it the other day at work and am still sore.

[shorning]

Shall we design a CAP Officer PT program?

How much personal liability insurance are you going to take out to run this program?

[Major Carrales]

Shall we design a CAP Officer PT program?

How much personal liability insurance are you going to take out to run this program?

None, physical fitness is our duty to ourselves.  Maybe if its just a more active lifestyle.  I try to work in some exercise to maintain a minimum level of fitness. 

If not, its no skin off my back.  I just thought one of the threads here might actually produce something usable and tangable.  And totlally voluntary.

[Dragoon]

Any existing program could be adopted by CAP on a voluntary basis.

We could give some kind of ribbon or badge for being fit.

Or....if you want to truly start something - make fitness a requirement for wearing USAF uniforms (optional for corporate).

Of course, if you did either of these, you'd need to manage the program, which involves more work for the squadrons.

But personally, I don't think we need to do much of anything for our general membership.   Any more than we need to start an anti-smoking program or a "get your degree" program.  CAP isn't the be-all and end all for self improvment - we should keep it simple, and only get into areas that directly affect mission accomplishment. 

And for the non-ES (and probably all the non-GT) seniors, fitness isn't a particularly big problem.

[Major Carrales]

Any existing program could be adopted by CAP on a voluntary basis.

We could give some kind of ribbon or badge for being fit.

Or....if you want to truly start something - make fitness a requirement for wearing USAF uniforms (optional for corporate).

Of course, if you did either of these, you'd need to manage the program, which involves more work for the squadrons.

But personally, I don't think we need to do much of anything for our general membership.   Any more than we need to start an anti-smoking program or a "get your degree" program.  CAP isn't the be-all and end all for self improvement - we should keep it simple, and only get into areas that directly affect mission accomplishment. 

And for the non-ES (and probably all the non-GT) seniors, fitness isn't a particularly big problem.

OK, what about officially publishing guidelines approved by CAP Health?  Or encouraging a healthy lifestyle of proper diet and exercise.

We need to think out of the box a bit here.  Everyone owns it to themselves to lead a healthy lifestyle...we should at least spread the word.  That  is grass roots. 

Grassroots PT drive by an individual's internal desire to be fit...it might help if they did it as a group.

I don't know...I did not expect such controversy from this topic 

[DNall]

Once again... You have to wait on HSO to come out with their track & get their crap together. This is alreayd on their list of things to do. I don't know what it's going to look like, so if you're an expert & want ti discuss fitness details as a suggestion to them, or if you want to discuss hwo the overall program should be structured & administered, or something along those lines then that's fine, but otherwise you should just sign up for the HSO yahoo group & keep your eyes open.

[Dragoon]

OK, what about officially publishing guidelines approved by CAP Health?  Or encouraging a healthy lifestyle of proper diet and exercise.

We need to think out of the box a bit here.  Everyone owns it to themselves to lead a healthy lifestyle...we should at least spread the word.  That  is grass roots. 

Grassroots PT drive by an individual's internal desire to be fit...it might help if they did it as a group.

I don't know...I did not expect such controversy from this topic 

We've had medical officers advocate good health for years.  And that's fine.

But I'm always worried about CAP trying to do too much, and ending up not doing things well. 

Sure, fitness is important.

But education is important too - should we be spending time on a program designed to convince seniors to get college degrees?

And financial independance is important- should we set up a program to educate our members on the evils of credit, and the importance of proper investments.

Should we set up a swimming program?  After all, you can die if you can't swim..

Marriage Counseling?

Meditation?

Where does it end?  Where does CAP draw the line and say

"Yup, it's all important, but it's also not our responsibility.  And frankly, we need to focus on our critical stuff.  So we'll leave it up to you, the individual member, to make good life decisions.  We'll worry about making sure you're trained and ready to do CAP stuff."

Tags - MIKE

[DNall]

Chaplains & Finance officers, you missed legal officers in there too. Yes, hell yes, we should be taking care of our members. Those issues may be less prominant than being physically able to do the job, but certainly if you're home & work life is screwed & you're broke you aren't going to be able to volunteer much of your time.

[Dragoon]

Chaplains & Finance officers, you missed legal officers in there too. Yes, hell yes, we should be taking care of our members. Those issues may be less prominant than being physically able to do the job, but certainly if you're home & work life is screwed & you're broke you aren't going to be able to volunteer much of your time.

But how much CAP time and resources should be devoted to these sort of periphery problems?  And what training will you eliminate to make room for these things?

Should we mandate that our Chaplains provide marital counseling?  Like they've got time for that.

Should we mandate that our legal officers provide free estate planning sessions to our members?  Like we've got enough legal officers for that!

It's a fixed-sum game. We have X volunteer hours to spend on our members - what are the priorities? 

We cannot do it all. 

[Major Carrales]

Fine then, your points are made. 

I hope none of you will advocate for a Senior PT program, because I am likely to fight you "on principle" because of this.

Sad that because I merely bring up a "grassroots" program that I would have loved to have lead and recommend to my unit, people find ways to make it bad!

[Dragoon]

Nope, I'm with you.  If we want to be good, we have to focus on the important stuff only, and stop doing things that don't add much value.

One of the hardest decisions a leader makes is what not to do.  Because almost EVERYTHING has some value, and no one has the resources to it all.  So ya gotta make the hard calls.

[Major Carrales]

Nope, I'm with you.  If we want to be good, we have to focus on the important stuff only, and stop doing things that don't add much value.

One of the hardest decisions a leader makes is what not to do.  Because almost EVERYTHING has some value, and no one has the resources to it all.  So ya gotta make the hard calls.

I'm big one people addressing their own needs and finding ways to mitiage problems.

A physically fit CAP Officer Corps is a boon to us all, and you are correct, we can ill afford to waste time and resources.  However, what I suggested woudl have wasted neither.

[DNall]

Chaplains & Finance officers, you missed legal officers in there too. Yes, hell yes, we should be taking care of our members. Those issues may be less prominant than being physically able to do the job, but certainly if you're home & work life is screwed & you're broke you aren't going to be able to volunteer much of your time.

But how much CAP time and resources should be devoted to these sort of periphery problems?  And what training will you eliminate to make room for these things?

Taking care of your people so they can do their job is not periphery, it's a primary leadership responsibility. The kinds of things that you pay attention to in CAP are slight different & perhaps more invasive & engaging than in the military, expressly because they volunteer their time & can leave at any point, so you have to be right on top of things & doing all you can for them. That's job number one above anything else required of a commander at any level.

Should we mandate that our Chaplains provide marital counseling?  Like they've got time for that.

Should we mandate that our legal officers provide free estate planning sessions to our members?  Like we've got enough legal officers for that!

Why exactly do we have chaplains? I do believe their number one duty is to minister to the needs of our members. Anything else we task them with (MLO or CISM for instance) is secondary. Free estate planning from legal officers? Probably they'd want to get paid for that, but free legal advice & referal, absolutely, and I would very much expect them to help members out on a pro bono basis from time to time.

It's a fixed-sum game. We have X volunteer hours to spend on our members - what are the priorities? 

Oh no it is not!!! See we got unlimited recruiting. If you need resources to take care of your members, your job as CC is to go get them. That takes priority over any report, program, activity, etc. A Sq CC is not the quarterback, he's the coach. You give your team the resources to be successful, and you manage & direct those resources so they can run the plays to your satisfaction. That's your number one responsibility.

[RogueLeader]

We are starting an optional PFT program for Seniors at my Squadron.  It looks like it should do well.

[DNall]

Fine then, your points are made. 

I hope none of you will advocate for a Senior PT program, because I am likely to fight you "on principle" because of this.

Sad that because I merely bring up a "grassroots" program that I would have loved to have lead and recommend to my unit, people find ways to make it bad!

Joe, you can do what you want locally. There are mass amounts of resources out there to work with. You need to use an existing program with its own administration that you can just quick ref. That was already stated.

Far as a broad national voluntary program, HSO is working on that, but they have to get theri own crap together first & there are legal issues they need hammered out with liability first, congress is working on that. I don't know what they plan to do in the meantime.

Any kind of mandatory program is worth discussing cause the people that won't participate in a voluntary program are the ones that need it most. How to do that is a whole big issue.

[Dragoon]

Chaplains & Finance officers, you missed legal officers in there too. Yes, hell yes, we should be taking care of our members. Those issues may be less prominant than being physically able to do the job, but certainly if you're home & work life is screwed & you're broke you aren't going to be able to volunteer much of your time.

But how much CAP time and resources should be devoted to these sort of periphery problems?  And what training will you eliminate to make room for these things?

Taking care of your people so they can do their job is not periphery, it's a primary leadership responsibility. The kinds of things that you pay attention to in CAP are slight different & perhaps more invasive & engaging than in the military, expressly because they volunteer their time & can leave at any point, so you have to be right on top of things & doing all you can for them. That's job number one above anything else required of a commander at any level.

Should we mandate that our Chaplains provide marital counseling?  Like they've got time for that.

Should we mandate that our legal officers provide free estate planning sessions to our members?  Like we've got enough legal officers for that!

Why exactly do we have chaplains? I do believe their number one duty is to minister to the needs of our members. Anything else we task them with (MLO or CISM for instance) is secondary. Free estate planning from legal officers? Probably they'd want to get paid for that, but free legal advice & referal, absolutely, and I would very much expect them to help members out on a pro bono basis from time to time.

It's a fixed-sum game. We have X volunteer hours to spend on our members - what are the priorities? 

Oh no it is not!!! See we got unlimited recruiting. If you need resources to take care of your members, your job as CC is to go get them. That takes priority over any report, program, activity, etc. A Sq CC is not the quarterback, he's the coach. You give your team the resources to be successful, and you manage & direct those resources so they can run the plays to your satisfaction. That's your number one responsibility.

Nice thoughts above, but completely unrealistic for the average unit.  Find me a unit that works this way.  Give me the names of the legal, finance and chaplains and I'll call 'em up to verify on how they are helping all the members of teh squadron with their personal, legal and financial matters.

This is pie in the sky stuff.  If our resources are unlimited, we'd have no problem being perfect in all that we do.  We ain't.  We ain't even close.

We only have so many resources.  Our members only have so many skills.

And "thinking big" without any realism leads to great disappointment.

As one commander of mine once said "A vision without resources is a hallucination."

Priorities must be set.

[DNall]

No I understand that. The priority is to go recruit the resources you need to take care of your people so they can be there & active in the capacity you need, otherwise the mission doesn't happen.

I caertainly can't do everything myself, but I'm working toward the goals stated witha staff that's reaching out for resources. I think what you'll find is most lawyers, accountants, chaplains, etc haven't ever been told that their first job is taking care of the people around them. I think if you told them that & helped them with some structure & limits that they'd be more than happy to help.

The priority for the people will be a combination of mission & personal. The priority of the commander will also, but his version has to skew slightly to the people so as to make mission accomplishment possible. If everyone takes a step back & tries to see the truth in that then you can reapproach & adjust the way we do things slightly to make a more successful organization & local unit. CAP organizationally just isn't & never will be about the people. CAP is about using people, using them to accomplish a mission, and from our retention rates over our entire history you can see that's never been about what you get in return, which is mostly somewhere between nothing & screwed. The only place that's going to take care of members is right there at Sq. Start delivering those resources & I'll bet you see a whoole new unit in just a few months.

I have some resources in my unit & we're recruiting now. I'm going to try to build to that. We'll see, but I don't think it's unrealistic, it's jsut a goal we haven't reached yet.

[RiverAux]

OK, what about officially publishing guidelines approved by CAP Health? 

Frankly, I don't have a whole lot of faith in CAP health services.  They never seem to get much accomplished and haven't been helpful to me in the past when I had questions regarding first aid requirements for ES.  That was a few years ago.  Maybe they've gotten better. 

[arajca]

OK, what about officially publishing guidelines approved by CAP Health? 

Frankly, I don't have a whole lot of faith in CAP health services.  They never seem to get much accomplished and haven't been helpful to me in the past when I had questions regarding first aid requirements for ES.  That was a few years ago.  Maybe they've gotten better. 

The first aid requirements for ES are properly addressed by the OPS folks, not HSO. The major problem occuring with the HSO program is the legal details. Bring common sense to the legal system, and we'd have a viable HSO program the next day. The basics and most of the details are already written. They're just being picked apart and rewritten by the lawyers. The HSO has tried to get the AF to provide protection for CAP medical personnel without success. Any actions I take place me at risk of lawsuit or loosing certifications. That is one reason I don't plan to be on a GT. Good Sam laws generally don't cover members (volunteer or paid) of a rescue organization functioning as such.