Being One with the USAF!

[DNall]

There's other stuff that covers all of what CAP-USAF does, which function well outside the bounds of that reg. I'm sorry it doesn't clarify the point for you, but that's just not the case. Feel free to ask any CAP-USAF officer/NCO/civilian for clarification.

[RiverAux]

The point doesn't need clarification as it is very clearly spelled out in the regulation I cited as to who has authority to approve the use of CAP to assist the AF in any way. 

[LtCol White]

The reg applies to USAF Requests and using CAP. When USAF comes and makes a formal request.

It does not apply to CAP volunteering to help with minor social events or holding something that fits the category of what I have described. If you want to be so literal, then read where it talks about USAF Requesting CAP.

[RiverAux]

AF use of CAP is the same whether the AF requests CAP help or CAP requests to help the AF.  No such distinction in the regulation. 

[aveighter]

This is amazing!   :clap:

A reason not to do anything backed up by regulation, fiat and (I'll bet) words etched in stone because it couldn't possible work in the first place even if it was allowed which it isn't.

Life just became a lot more simple.  We don't have to do a thing and have a good reason to boot!

[RiverAux]

I'm a major proponent of augmentation missions for CAP members but the current regulation just makes it very difficult, unfortunately.  Until the AF changes the regulation and gives local unit commanders a lot more obvious flexibility and until CAP changes some of its rules to make it easier for CAP members to do this sort of work, it will be a problem. 

Acknowledging a problem doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to get it fixed. 

[Major_Chuck]

Lt Col White has some very valid and strong points here that I agree with.  We as an organization are always asking for something from the Air Force, almost begging at times.  How often have we actually used those words "What can we do for you?"

I hate to offer us up as free labor but think about how many familes of deployed Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, Marines, and Coasties (not sure what they are called) could use a little help.  MWR activities are probably looking for help in some way. 

We can do more to secure standing and earning greater respect from the Air Force and the other services by being less of a child always asking for a handout and more of a willing and able partner who wants to do more than just search for the ELT's and the rare and occassional HLS mission or air show parking detail.

Just food for thought.

[lordmonar]

Dude, you really need to slow down on the regs. It doesn't work that way. You can & should do any amount of stuff for the AF w/o following that proceedure. The AFB/recruiter/whatever can even pay for you to park cars or watever from basically petty cash.

You obviously have never been through the Government Purchase Card/Contracting class!

The AFB/recruiter/whatever.....does not even have petty cash and certainly cannot just contract (that is what we are talking about here) out work with out jumping through many, many, many, many, many hoops!

If you doubt me...I am currently a contract QA monitor and have been a GPC card holder and AO!

[DNall]

I do believe you, but they sure as hell do have petty cash, just not necessarily on the books. Ask Kach about his stories on that. Anyway, they'd budget an event, and that'd include money for help on parking.

They also provide endless amounts of other support that doesn't require that whole process, and CAP provides support to them that doesn't require it either. That reg is, as stated, the proceedure for AF to call in a request thru CAP-USAF & CAP national to get mission support that will be reimbursed out of AF O&M money.

The confusion river is having is he's thinking of formal augmentation where AF would call CAP looking for someone to come fill a job on weekends. There's currently no provision for that. They don't write regs to cover any possible eventuality. Create a program in conjunction with them & they'll write a reg to spell out the proceedure. That's what he's thinking of, not what Col White described, which is no brainer take advantage of your situation stuff & good of him to remind us of cause I'm sure a lot of base area units aren't working it as hard as they could.

If you're not around a base, there's quite a bit you can do for recruiters & academy liaisons as well. They don't necessarily have a lot of resources they can send back in your favor, but they can help your kids out a lot when they make the decision to cross over, and they will put in a good word for you with others. If you can't do much for them, check with the national guard armory or area reserve unit.

[RiverAux]

Again, CAP support to the AF is the same no matter what you call it or what you're doing... the rules are the same whether you're stuffing envelopes for a recruiter or the AF asking you to take pretty aerial photos of their golf course.  I fully agree the rules are not set up to make the non-flying requests, but nevertheless that is what the AF is supposed to do.

Does it make a difference from the perspective of a CAP member if an AF member doesn't follow the right procedure when requesting CAP help?  Depends on whether or not you care about the difference in insurance coverage, etc. on AF vs CAP corporate missions. 

Depending on the mood of the CAP lawyers though, I could even forsee problems if you're hurt doing some sort of unofficial task for the AF.   There isn't really any clear direction on this issue in CAP regulations and it would dependon whether it was considered part of your CAP duties. 

[DNall]

No it's not. There are several regs that coiver different methodology for CAP to support AF. Not to mention you don't need permission. You're taking a reg intended for one set of circumstances & applying it to everything even though there is other stuff out there. That reg ONLY gets used when operational funds are to be reimbursed & AFAM coverage is to be extended. Supporting the AF is not a mission, does not require a mission number, and does not involve reimbursement or insurance. You CAN use that reg if it's necessary, but mostly it is not. Feel free to ask for clarification, you'll find it isn't at all restrictive.

I deal with recruiters & academy liaisons here very regularly (if you don't do that as a CP officer you're dropping the ball). I'd love to look for more to do for the military and there's a lot around here, but I just don't have the time honestly.

[RiverAux]

Okay, you have your interpretation and I have mine...lets leave it at that.

[DNall]

Having been the liaison at an on-base Sq & worked extensively w/ the WgLO (at that time) to deliver services back to the Wg, you should take my word on this. Or take LtCol White's as he's done much the same thing on a more extensive scale on an AFB, or some other people around here that have done similiar. Or don't & ask your state director instead.

[RiverAux]

Okay, you have your interpretation and I have mine...lets leave it at that.

[baronet68]

Another way of improving this is getting more involved in activities around the base for those who are fortunate enough to be near one... Put together FOD teams that can help check the flightline and pick up debris.

Ah, if only it were that easy.... take a look at the AF regulation governing how they can use CAP and how many hoops anybody in the AF has to jump through to "officially" use CAP for anything.  It is not a system designed to be used as you have suggested (though it should be). 

Anyone who's known me for long realizes that I don't hide my willingness to "steal" good ideas when it comes to CAP.

Col White, we've stolen this little nugget of yours and are now in the process of getting our cadets included in some FOD details on McChord.  It was really easy.  We let the chain know what we're up to (Wing CC, State Director, etc.)  Made contact with PAO and the Maintenance Squadron with the help of one of our cadets' military parents.  Now, we're working out the schedule so that our cadets can join up with the Maintenance Squadron during some of their weekly FOD walks. 

Everyone's excited... Cadets because they get to do something "real" with the USAF.  Maintenance Squadron because they get an occasional boost in manpower.  ES-types because it emphasizes basic line-search techniques.  Overall it's a win-win-win.


Excellent idea and not nearly as difficult as some might think.

[Jolt]

How would a cadet that's part of a squadron that doesn't meet on or near an AFB get something like this rolling (we need some good squadron activities)?  Would recommending the idea to a senior member officer usually do the trick?

[DNall]

This thread not about what the AF can do for you, but what you can do for the AF. And generally that's not going to involve having lots of fun. Generally it's going to involve ardgous grunt work that just flat out sucks. You're looking in the wrong thread for fun activities.

[Jolt]

This thread not about what the AF can do for you, but what you can do for the AF. And generally that's not going to involve having lots of fun. Generally it's going to involve ardgous grunt work that just flat out sucks. You're looking in the wrong thread for fun activities.

No I'm not.  We don't do a lot of activities as a squadron.  We need something like this.  After all, cadets are happier when they're doing something and not sitting around.  We've done car washes before and we've done search lines in ES activities, so a FOD walk wouldn't be hard.

[DNall]

Your airport might accomodate you for that. Otherwise call your local recruiter, tell them you'd liek to help out & have 15 cadets to stuff envelopes on a saturday if he'll bring a couple pizzas.

[Jolt]

But sir, the local airport doesn't have any military operations and I thought the point of this thread was to do something just because it helped out the USAF.