CAP and the military

[flyguy06]

Everyone is talking about changing Civil Air Patrol. I have even heard some comments about demilitarizing CAP and doing away with uniforms altogether.

I am not ashamed to tell you that one of the reasons I joined was CAP was becaue it is military like. My goal as a child was to be a military pilot. Its not that I am now a wannabee. I couldnt be a pilot in the military due to my vision. So, yes, I admit it, CAP is the closest I will ever come to being an Air Force pilot. and thats fine withme. And actualy, thats the way it was bak in WWII. People that wanted to serve but couldnt due to physical limitations joined CAP.

SO, yes, I want it to stay military and yes, I treat it as so.

[JAFO78]

I too first joined CAP as I was unable to join the Air Force. I like the idea of helping others while working with others. I was in Navy JROTC in high school, and I had a blast, and I was looking for something to fill the void.

Now post 9-11 I feel it is the best way to serve my country as I am too old for the military.

[DNall]

A lot of people feel that way. Some were cadets that are paying back, others are in the military & want to make a bigger contribution than they feel they do at work (and like to see the impact rather than just being cog in the giant machine), others have served in the military & want to keep serving but not so much overseas & like to having the option to say no if they don't want to. Some weren't able to serve in the military, maybe it was medical, or maybe it was life getting in the way. There's some mid-life crisis involved for some people. Still others come with kids. Some are there to support them, others get caught up in it themselves. Probably a few other things, lot of combination of a few factors. That's all great. It's good things to think about when you're recruiting.

People stay for other reasons. Some good & some bad. It's important to know about those factors so you can encourage the good ones & discourage the bad ones.

Perspective is important thouh... CAP desn't exist FOR our members. If it did they might care a bit more about our retention rates among other things. No, the post-war CAP was founded & exists FOR the AF - to help them do THEIR job better, cheaper, faster, & that's why we get dollar one, and the only criteria by which we can ask for dollar two. That 100 million dollar fleet of planes, tens of millions in radios, & lots in vehicles too is no laughing matter. They've invest a train load of cash in us, and what about 25 mil give or take every single year, sometimes a lot more. They need to see their money's worth & more. That's been so-so in the past w/ SaR, anf that wasn't really ever enough w/o Cadet Programs & AE to back it up. I don't think you can go so far as to say they've ever truly NEEDED us. Now that SaR mission is drying up, at least the non-distress portions of it, probably a good percentage of the distress stuff too. So we need to evolve, and a lot of people believe that means proving to the AF we're as capable as their people to take on the big time missions we're equipped for & the nation desperately needs doing. The fact that those changes allow us to speak to the same things that new memebrs are looking for, well that's just bonus & enjoy the recruiting explosion that comes with it.

That's my take anyway, and I think you'll find the large majority of CAP members agree with it.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Add me to the list of ustabees.

I loved the military.  I loved the life of reporting to new places, meeting new people, making new friends.  I liked associating with the top 50 percent of the population of our country, and with people who while friendly, jovial and collegial, always were ready to deploy to some foreign land to kill people and break things in the name of the United States.

I started out an an E-1, and ended up an O-4. 

I now have medical problems that render me inelegible for active duty.  These medical conditions, however, do not render me stupid, nor do they cause me to forget the lessons I have learned over the years, and through the various wars and deployments that I have participated in.

I can use that knowledge to make CAP a valid force multiplier for the Air Force, and continue to serve my country here at home, in Air Force blue.

And, as for Vietnam being a run by the Communists now... that wasn't my fault.  We were winning when I left.

[DNall]

And, as for Vietnam being a run by the Communists now... that wasn't my fault.  We were winning when I left.

[Major_Chuck]

My ustabees....

I too joined to maintain a connection to the military and the Air Force specifically.  If we 'demilitarize' and become some corporate 'thing' then I'm gone.  I can join local SAR agencies and achieve the same results without having to deal with the inefficiency; scandal; and overall disconnect that has become our National Headquarters (and not have to pay $55 a year to boot).

For the record, I'm not a wannabee CAP'r who couldn't make it in the military.  I am a USAF Vet and a current Army National Guard Soldier.

[DogCollar]

I honor all of you that have served our nation in the armed forces.  I personally don't have that distinction.  (Although, I was the pastor of a congregation where 75% of the families were active duty or retired!  I feel like I have somewhat of an understanding of the culture.)

I am in CAP in order to serve, volunteer my skill set, and help my community and nation.  I feel a little awkward wearing the uniform.  I wear it because it is expected of me and I hope and pray that I don't dishonor it. 

Again, I'm NOT here because of military connection, but rather I appreciate the ideals of CAP and wish to serve.  The military aspect is more or less "icing on the cake" for me.

[Al Sayre]

Well, I ustabee a Cadet, (back when the world was flat) and I tried to go in the USAF.  They decided I had too many speeding tickets, so I ended up in the Navy where I became an Avionics Technician (AT1-E6).  I re-joined CAP for two reasons; my daughter was getting to that age and stage where I thought it would be a good thing to introduce her to CAP, and because I felt I owed something that gave me so much as a Cadet.  So now I'm doing what I can to give back and to help my community.

[flyguy06]

For the record, I'm not a wannabee CAP'r who couldn't make it in the military.  I am a USAF Vet and a current Army National Guard Soldier.

SO am I. I am an Infantry 1LT.

[davedove]

I will say that I joined CAP for its military trappings.  I was in the Army and Reserves, plus I've served the Army as a civilian for a total of over 21 years now, so I was comfortable with the military culture.

I could have joined any number of volunteer organizations, but that is what made me choose CAP.

If CAP were to go completely corporate, I'm not sure what I would do.  But I won't worry about that unless it happens.

[Major_Chuck]

My ustabees....

I too joined to maintain a connection to the military and the Air Force specifically.  If we 'demilitarize' and become some corporate 'thing' then I'm gone.  I can join local SAR agencies and achieve the same results without having to deal with the inefficiency; scandal; and overall disconnect that has become our National Headquarters (and not have to pay $55 a year to boot).

For the record, I'm not a wannabee CAP'r who couldn't make it in the military.  I am a USAF Vet and a current Army National Guard Soldier.

All:  Part of what I wrote didn't come across as I intended and before I am nailed to the wall I want to apologize for the last part.  Not everyone in CAP is a military wannabee and couldn't make it in the military.  I have met a fair number of CAP Officers who are really hung up on the rank and uniform issue.  Those are the ones who damage our relationships by pretending to be something they are not, a commissioned officer of the Armed Forces.

My reasons for joining CAP was that it maintained a connection and affiliation with the Air Force, a service I grew up in as a dependent and proudly served in.

[Rangersigo]

Looks like I am in the same boat as many hear.  Served 15 years, but had to leave because of a combat related injury.  Been out for about 4 years now and felt very luck to have found CAP.  I never thought that I would do anything else besides be in the Service.  Having found CAP, I thought this is a perfect way to continue to serve in some way, have that same sense of commaraderie as I felt in the service.  

I see a lot of posts of how CAP is not like the military - how it should not be etc.  One of the comments that I have not seen yet is for young people, those interested in the Military, this may be there first experience and if it is positive, serves as an avenue for their entry into the Uniformed Services, or vice versa.

I know the mission is ES, but the biggest mission is development of our cadets and their introduction to the honorable service in our nation's military.  There are no better people than those who have served - to do this.

Kurt

[Hawk200]

All:  Part of what I wrote didn't come across as I intended and before I am nailed to the wall I want to apologize for the last part.  Not everyone in CAP is a military wannabee and couldn't make it in the military.  I have met a fair number of CAP Officers who are really hung up on the rank and uniform issue.  Those are the ones who damage our relationships by pretending to be something they are not, a commissioned officer of the Armed Forces.

I've got over 18 years service in the military so far, but the biggest reason I joined was to give something to the communities in which I serve. That includes passing on the military experience that cadets (mostly) and seniors (some) want to learn.

I'm not sure how you define "hung up" as far as uniforms go, but I personally tend to try to maintain high uniform standards in my unit for two reasons. One, I want the members to present the same image in those uniforms to everyone that the military does. Two, I want to keep them from getting grief from anyone over improper uniforms. Many people want uniform "equality"with the Air Force, but they aren't willing to take the time to present the same attention to detail image that the military presents. Besides, if we as CAP overall present that image, the AF may bring our uniforms more into alignment with theirs.

My reasons for joining CAP was that it maintained a connection and affiliation with the Air Force, a service I grew up in as a dependent and proudly served in.

Same here. Spent ten of those years active with our mother branch. I still follow things happening in the Air Force, even though I'm in the Army Guard. Hopefully going back the the AF in a few years.

[Dragoon]

As a cadet, I joined for two reasons

1)  The military trappings (to prepare me for my chosen career)
2) The ES mission (where else can a 14 year old do real work and maybe save a life)

To me this is a winning combination and worthly of keeping.

On the senior side, I'm in it

1) To serve my community, state and nation (with apologies to the Cadet Oath)
2) Because I've been in it so long that it's a habit  

The military trappings means less and less the older I get, as it doesn't really seem to make a difference in mission accomplishment (and occasionally gets in the way).  With the one exception of training the cadets -they need the mentorship and role models.

[sandman]

 With the one exception of training the cadets -they need the mentorship and role models.

Here, here!! and Amen!!

[Smokey]

I was never military. I was in college when Kack was killing commies in 'Nam.  I pulled a high number in the draft lottery (body bingo) and continued on in school. And no, I didn't run off to Canada and other stuff.

I went into law enforcement but always considered joining the military, at least on a reserve or NG basis. But, marriage, family and 3 kids kept me occupied.

As a side note.....Dad was a tank commander in WWII and my grandfather's cousin was one of the few 5 Stars running the show in WWII.

After finally learning to fly 12 years ago (a life long dream) I heard about CAP- you know the best kept secret.  This was my opportunity to serve in a quasi military way. I was too old for the reserves/NG so CAP it is.

I take pride in wearing the uniform and do so properly (after all I've worn a police uniform for 35 years) My blues are cleaned and pressed. I am within the AF ht/wt limits so I wear the AF uniform.

I don't think of my self as a wannabe but as a member of the AF Aux who is there to serve the AF and my country. I don't troll for salutes (and am almost embarrassed when I am given one) and would never think of trying to give an order to any regular service member. That's not my bag.

Take away the military part of CAP and I'm outta here.  In my area there are several SAR units that are part of the Sheriff's Dept I could join.

Besides I'm so politically incorrect (but morally right) that CAP is the only place I can get rank!!!!   (For those of you in Rio Linda, that's a joke)

[ELTHunter]

I'm probably one of those where life got in the way, AND it was probably a bit of a mid-life crisis thing.

I always had aspirations of going into the Air Force.  Dad was a crew chief on RB-26's and RB-66's with the 363rd TRW of the 9th AF from 1953 - 1957, and that seemed pretty cool.  I knew about CAP when I was too young to join, but by the time I got old enough, I was really into football and that was my life in high school.

After school, not going to college wasn't an option.  There wasn't an AFROTC detachment at TTU, and I kinda got away from thinking about the military.  After college, I married the girl I had dated since junior year of high school, so the thought of going to God-knows-where for God-knows-how-long, wasn't particularly appealing either.  So it was on to a career, kids, a mortgage, and you know the story.

Then came my late 30's, and after going to a few air shows, I got interested in air planes again.  By that time, it was too late to enlist and I couldn't take the hit on my salary and still support a family any way.

I remembered CAP from way back, and thought I'd see if they had anything for adults to do.  I was really excited when I found out that I could serve in some way, and be around planes and other people who enjoyed aviation.

I visited the local squadron figuring that everyone wanted to fly, so they would probably put me on the Ground Team, but figured that was OK any way.  I joined and was surprised and pleased to find out that they really needed Observers.

A few months after I joined, the Deputy Commander For Cadets asked me if I would "help out" with the cadet program.  I told him that I didn't know how much time I would have, but that I'd help out when I could.  I also had never worked with teenagers before.  I guess I was one of the few Senior Members in the Squadron that could wear a uniform correctly and showed up every week.  A couple of weeks later,  I found out the Deputy Commander For Cadets, who was a boom operator on KC-135's, was going to ANG OTS and on to pilot training, and I took over for him a few months later.

I started working with the cadets about the time the ES curriculum first came out, so that led to me getting qualified as a GTM, GTL, and later GBD, but I continued as an MO.

Working with cadets has been a trip, and has definitely enriched my CAP experience.  It's probably kept me on my toes, both mentally (I had to learn the ES curriculum as well as all the stuff the cadets have to study, in order to teach them), and physically ( I lost 50 pounds when I first started with them because I wanted to be able to run and hike with them, as well as wear the AF style uniforms) then I otherwise would have been.

My Son is 10 and can't wait to be a CAP cadet.  If he continues to be interested in the program, I'll probably keep working with cadets as long as he is.

Bottom line is, I do like being in the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary.  I'm proud of the Air Force uniform, and that I've earned every grade I have, even if it's not that hard to do.  I'd probably stay in CAP even if it weren't tied to the USAF, as long as it was a quality organization, I thought it was worth while, and we were serving the community, state and nation.  Having said that, I could have joined the Red Cross and I am a Scout leader, but I prefer the CAP because it does allow me to contribute to the USAF in a small way, and do things that not everybody gets to do.  I have also found that there are a lot of like minded people in the organization that hold the same values that I do, and by and large, they are a great group of folks to work with.

[flyguy06]

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I know the mission is ES, but the biggest mission is development of our cadets and their introduction to the honorable service in our nation's military.  There are no better people than those who have served - to do this.

Kurt

Ahhhh, and therein lis the problem. Too manypeople think  "the mission" of CAP is ES. I say it is not. CAP has three equally important missions.

[lordmonar]

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I know the mission is ES, but the biggest mission is development of our cadets and their introduction to the honorable service in our nation's military.  There are no better people than those who have served - to do this.

Kurt

Ahhhh, and therein lis the problem. Too manypeople think  "the mission" of CAP is ES. I say it is not. CAP has three equally important missions.

Yes but individual CAP members only have some much time and ability.  We focus on what we want to do and of course we think that one mission is the most import!  (or else why would we do it).

When I was a Cadet Squadron Commander...Cadets were the most important mission.  I could care less about ES and AE except as it pertained to my CS program.

Those that fly and don't want to have anything to do with cadets only care about the ES mission...just as the GT'ers think that the Flyers underrate their contribution to the mission(s).

And I don't think this is a problem.  I want who ever is doing the job to think that job is the most important thing in the world.  They should have pride in what they do and they should stand up for their parts of the mission.

It is the commander's job to balance their squadrons.  The should be working with wing and group to ensure that all the missions are being take care of and wing and group should be helping out those squadrons that are lacking in one area or another.

But externally.....and this is where we interface with the military.  ES and CP are the main missions.  They often are unaware of our CP mission...and therefore from the military's point of view...the main thing they care about is ES.

So in the context of our relationship with the military our ES is the area we should focus on followed by our CP.

[Dragoon]

Ahhhh, and therein lis the problem. Too manypeople think  "the mission" of CAP is ES. I say it is not. CAP has three equally important missions.

More heresy here - are they truly equal?

In other words if a Wing saves a bunch of lives and puts 100 cadets into the Air Force Academy, have they failed in USAF's eyes because they couldn't get a single teacher to go to NCASE?

We say these missions are equal.  But then we go do things like CD and HLS, which aren't exactly "Emergency Services."  Where do they fit into the priorities.

If you have a plane ready to go look for an ELT, and the cadet squadron wants to use it for O flights, how do you decide which to do?  Are they truly equal?

I don't think USAF has done a good job of prioritizing what's important.  And once we fall into the trap of "everything's important" we avoid the hard choices that could help us excel. 

I think (and I could be wrong) that in USAF's eyes, the priority goes ES, Cadet Programs, Other Ops Missions, and Aerospace Education.  But I'd sure like to hear it from them.  Or even from OUR leadership.