A move to First Air Force

[isuhawkeye]

We have had several discussions regarding CAP and its relationship with 1st Air Force.  I would like to pursue this discussion further but I have a few questions. 


     1. A few years ago there was discussion of moving CAP under Control of 1st Air force, but we are still under AETC.  Can anyone talk about that proposed move, and why it did not take place.

     2. Referencing the previous attempt to move CAP to first Air Force, if id did not work before, will it work in the future

     3. Can anyone speak to missions that have been tasked in the past calendar year under the auspices of first air force?

     4. If you have worked 1st air force missions in the past year what types of missions were they (If it doesn't violate OPSEC)
     
     5. Are your 1st air force experiences outside of the traditional AFRCC, and AFNSEP channels?

[DNall]

Do my best...

We have had several discussions regarding CAP and its relationship with 1st Air Force.  I would like to pursue this discussion further but I have a few questions. 


     1. A few years ago there was discussion of moving CAP under Control of 1st Air force, but we are still under AETC.  Can anyone talk about that proposed move, and why it did not take place.

Sure. Post 9/11 CAP looking to step into serious Homeland Defense role. Moves considered, see if this sounds familiar, were stay under AETC where CP, AE, & professional development are most at home; move to 1AF which is in charge of homeland defesne for the AF & directs those activities conducted by all DoD aviation assets including ANG & ARNG troops; or, move to NGB for better relationship & support of state needs for disaster & homeland defense, let 1AF focus on the HLD that involves F16s. NGB was in the discussion by the way because they ASKED for OPCON of CAP to be transfered.

Each option was considered in great detail by Air Staff - that's the staff of the Chief of Staff of the AF, meaning the people in charge of the whole entire AF.

NGB was rejected cause some sates can support & some cannot, some need CAP's help & some don't want it, just inconsistent for a national program. Also screwed up the CP & AE missions. John's proposal if you'll look at it is trying to mitigate these concerns & make that back into a viable option.

1AF was considered, but at that time they were undergoing quite  abit of change, taking on command of lots ANG units, etc. They weren't really settled yet & not all this made sense to everyone at the time. I would have agreed with them then, now post Katrina I have a slightly dif view. My proposal still just calls for OPCON. That means we a re primary MISSION asset of 1AF, and THEY help trailblaze missions for us in other parts of the AF (8AF for cyber for instance).

AETC/AU is where we started. They wanted to keep us cause they felt strongly about the CP/AE aspects & thought we had a lot to gain from AF professional development/PME resopurces at their disposal. Plus their view is CP is the most important thing anyway, remember they own AFROTC/JROTC, OTS, flight training among other things. Decision was to leave us there, but write a strong MOU w/ 1AF. As I said, my view is our day-to-day ADCON should stay w/ AETC & fully utilize those resources. BUT, our OPCON w/1AF should be strengthened even more with them as an operationally direct controlling unit (meaning they don't need permission to activate us & can loan us out to other parts of the AF or state/local on the federal dime again w/o permission from AETC (that's delegated to be done via CAP-USAF).

2. Referencing the previous attempt to move CAP to first Air Force, if id did not work before, will it work in the future

I can't answer that. If you look at what I'm saying, it's less about actually moving anywhere & more about streamlining the process to make use of us on big bad missions rather than piddly little grandma missions we have to beg out of them to get the flight time.

3. Can anyone speak to missions that have been tasked in the past calendar year under the auspices of first air force?

     4. If you have worked 1st air force missions in the past year what types of missions were they (If it doesn't violate OPSEC)

Yes & no, there's some OPSEC involved, but generalities that have been in the open source are fine. We've played target for air defense fighter intercept over cities & such. Done the national security event stuff flying around stadiums & major events that look like potential targets - same deal with the shuttle on a regular basis. I understand we fly that any time it's on the pad, the IC/FRO/Project Officers whatever his title for that mission is a member that posts here sometimes. We've done flights over vessels in US waters (SDIS/ARCHER pix back) I guess they want to make sure there's not missiles sticking out & they like us better than the coast guard or something (cause we can beam pix back instantly - don't tell CGAux Air) - this is part of why we're asking for a couple twins, I think most of that has been out of southern California, there's some guys on here know more about that. They pretty enamored w/ ARCHER actually. All CN flights, including those at Customs & DEA request run thru 1AF, they also task ANG/ARNG/res/active assets to do these missions w/o LE agency request & we'd like to get in on that pie. Lots of disaster flying, of course Katrina is outside your indow a bit, but we've flow a lot of smaller federal disaster areas. I'm not sure how those blizzards are classified right now, done some flood work & wildfires though. Then of course AFRCC is under 1AF. Probably 95% of our missions involve 1AF in one capacity or another. Even the stuff for state/local goes thru 1AF first to see if the feds'll pay for it.

5. Are your 1st air force experiences outside of the traditional AFRCC, and AFNSEP channels?

The missions not tasked by those sub agencies, are direct taskings via the CAP-USAF liaison officer (tho the MOU allows for a volunteer CAP member hold this post) standing watch in the Combined Air Operations Command Center at Tyndall. That's the place where all the regional Air Defense Sectors & AFRCC report into... Actually I don't know the details on this off hand, but I'd understood that part of AFRCC was deployed & thye were just running the day shift & that they were running ELT missions to CAP out of Tyndall as well. I know they did off & on for a while there, not sure what the status is now. Anyway, 1AF has an MOU, they coordinate w/ the CAP-USAF officer that's tehre to advise on the capabilites of CAP, and when CAP is the most appropriate resource for the job (financially or otherwise) then they call over to the NOC & they activate the resources driectly w/o bothing your Wg CC. That's still a shaky process on the CAP side, you saw a lot of those issues in Katrina, but it's getting much better form what I understand.

Hope that helps... Far as the missions, I think you've seen me talk about nuke/rad/chem/bio monitoring on the border/trans routes/ports/cities/etc, also the FLIR that's useful on CN, SaR, DR, HLD monitoring of critical infrastructure/events, etc - both those systems have some use on an environmental mission similiar to the CG. We've been working on the relationship. It's time to gear up our people & our equipment to step into a bigger role as unpaid professionals alongside our brother airmen all working together in the AF role to safeguard the country.

[bosshawk]

To further amplify the DNall answer on which missions are run through 1AF: all CD missions are requested through the NOC, who forwards them to 1AF for approval.  After flying them, the results are input into WMIRS, including the hours flown and the cost of the fuel.  That info is available online and I am led to understand that the two star commanding 1AF has that data on his desk whenever he decides to look at it: usually daily.  Not much question that those missions are very much right up front of those folks in 1AF who want to know.

Want to know more: call your Wing CDO.

I also think that, effective either in Nov or Dec, all training missions and their associated sorties are input into WMIRS for approval and for monitoring and the reporting of results.

That certainly speaks to the visibility of CAP with 1AF.

[JohnKachenmeister]

So... Under DNall's plan, CD missions would go direct to 1AF, which would then directly task the wing to provide the plane and qualified crew.  Sounds more efficient to me.  Send the bill through NOC if you want.

[bosshawk]

Kach: you are getting close to a subject near and dear to me: the NOC.  Right now, a LE agency requests a mission directly to the NOC, with copies to the Wing CDO and the DEA, Customs or Forest Service customer coordinator(most marijuana recon missions go through DEA).  Then, NOC goes through their monkey dance and gets AF approval(from 1AF), then comes back to the Wing CDO with either approval or disapproval.  The Wing CDO then puts the mission into WMIRS, with all sorties specified, then flies the mission and reports the results.  What used to take a day or two before the NOC got involved, now takes 4 or 5 days if everything goes swimmingly.

This painfully known to me: I am the poor slob who puts the stuff into WMIRS: although I am looking for someone to start doing that for me.

Going straight to 1AF would be a godsend: but talk about goring water buffaloes??

[JohnKachenmeister]

Maybe that's why I'm such a jerk on these boards.  I've considered water buffaloes targets since 1969.

Maybe I could put that on my business card:

"Major John Kachenmeister... Bringing ordnance and water buffaloes together since 1969."

[RiverAux]

I thought mission requests were being input into WMIRS first?  At least thats how they're doing it for SAR training. 

[shorning]

"Major John Kachenmeister... Bringing ordnance and water buffaloes together since 1969."

Them's good eatin' with a little BBQ sauce...

[isuhawkeye]

Thank you for the input, and the responses. 

I am however looking for something a little more specific. 

When I ask about first air force missions I am asking aboutassignments that come from first air force.  Most CD missions (I am CD cleared) come form local sherrif's the DEA, or a nother law enforcement agency. 

What missions has first air force generated for us.

[ZigZag911]

Maybe I could put that on my business card:

"Major John Kachenmeister... Bringing ordnance and water buffaloes together since 1969."

I like it, presuming you are actually referring to the mammalian creature, and not the useful (if somewhat antiquated) trailers in which we stored water at encampments back in the 80s.....plinging them would only spring a leak!

[JohnKachenmeister]

RULE #1:  Never shoot the water buffalo (Trailer-type) unless you are absolutely certain that you have enough beer.

RULE #2:  You never can have enough beer.

[ZigZag911]

RULE #1:  Never shoot the water buffalo (Trailer-type) unless you are absolutely certain that you have enough beer.

RULE #2:  You never can have enough beer.

RUKE #3: In case of doubt, see RULE #2!!!

[DNall]

Thank you for the input, and the responses. 

I am however looking for something a little more specific. 

When I ask about first air force missions I am asking aboutassignments that come from first air force.  Most CD missions (I am CD cleared) come form local sherrif's the DEA, or a nother law enforcement agency. 

What missions has first air force generated for us.

The HLD/S comes from them. We'd like to expand that to nuke/rad/chem/bio monitoring. Border patrol in the check if those guys are terrorists sense, if not then your on your own Mr Border Patrol Agent (can use the same thing w/ CD)

They ALSO do a LOT of CD missions that are NOT requested by LE, and we'd like to move from just the one to the big pie alongside CG & certain special AF assets. There's actually a great big territory of missions where some of our capabilites would be perfect - same ARCHER versus F15/recon argument for instance.

There's a lot of other stuff we can do for other parts of the AF, but you have to move from foot in door to opening the thing up a bit. That takes deserving it & proving ourselves big enough to overcome the reputation/difficulties of the past/present.