Where are the black boots?

[SAREXinNY]

I've never had trouble finding black boots, at least for adults. I have some new cadets who just joined and their parents told me they were having trouble finding some. I did a quick search of all the places I used to find them, but nothing. Nobody seems to carry kid's sizes in black military style boots. Is anyone else running into this? Where are other people going for their boots?

[coudano]

i've seen boots that are passable at academy
they aren't strictly old school combats but they will do

[Turtle1]

Good Morning,
I am in PA. Our local Walmart carries a black TacLight boot. Sizes start at 6.

[farsightusf2017]

5.11 has some options that work. Belleville has black boots in lots of sizes and styles, though they are more expensive so it's a boot a recommend for those who are committed or move up into.

[SARDOC]

Rothco boots Walmart

Walmart will ship to wherever you want.   These are available in smaller sizes and the price isn't bad. 

[SAREXinNY]

Thank you, all. I used to send people to our local Walmart but they don't carry the same inventory as they used to as far as the black boots. I did a search of their website before posting but I must have missed the boots in the links provided. Thank you!

[Майор Хаткевич]

I've worn out 2 pairs of these over the last 10-15 years, and they are worth every penny: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G5V8W8

[Revolver]

Belleville has a nice selection of quality black boots!

[Shuman 14]

Hopefully when we switch over to OCP, the USAF will authorize both coyote and black boots, so cheap surplus boots will be available again.

[PHall]

Hopefully when we switch over to OCP, the USAF will authorize both coyote and black boots, so cheap surplus boots will be available again.

My money says we'll keep the black boots. It an easy way to comply with DAFI10-2701, 17 JUNE 2021, Para 1.2.3.2.4. regarding being distinctive from the USAF uniform.

[Shuman 14]

My money says we'll keep the black boots. It an easy way to comply with DAFI10-2701, 17 JUNE 2021, Para 1.2.3.2.4. regarding being distinctive from the USAF uniform.

Because the white on blue tapes, rank tabs and badges and all the full color patches isn't distinctive enough. 

[PHall]

My money says we'll keep the black boots. It an easy way to comply with DAFI10-2701, 17 JUNE 2021, Para 1.2.3.2.4. regarding being distinctive from the USAF uniform.

Because the white on blue tapes, rank tabs and badges and all the full color patches isn't distinctive enough. 

I'm just stating what has been said by the HQ CAP-USAF/CC in the past. Per the regs it's their decision.

[Shuman 14]

I'm just stating what has been said by the HQ CAP-USAF/CC in the past. Per the regs it's their decision.

Are those personnel still assigned at HQ CAP-USAF? Are they even still in the Air Force/Space Force?

What is CAP advocating for with HQ CAP-USAF? If we just keep nodding our heads up and down and say "Yes Sir, whatever you like, Sir" we are at the mercy of those personnel assigned there.

If you make a solid argument, point out that USAF/USSF JROTC does not wear black boots and how our white on blue tapes, rank tabs and badges and all the full color patches already make us distinctive from the USAF/USSF, how black boots are more expensive now then coyote boots, then it is not hard to advocate for both black (most CAP members already have them) and coyote (recent veterans already have them, surplus/excess can be donated to CAP).

That being said, black boots with OCPs don't look too bad and not as clownish as they do with ABUs.

[SARDOC]

My money says we'll keep the black boots. It an easy way to comply with DAFI10-2701, 17 JUNE 2021, Para 1.2.3.2.4. regarding being distinctive from the USAF uniform.

I think we'd keep the black boots as well, but not because of their "Distinctive" quality.  I think it's a pure pricing issue.  Black boots are cheaper.

There are people who don't want to wear hand-me down surplus footwear and the surplus footwear won't likely be available in the smaller sizes.

SHUMAN mentions the JROTC aspect, but they don't take middle schoolers (read:small sizes) and all of their uniforms are bought and paid for by the USAF.  We have to keep the pricing/availability aspect in mind while trying to keep a consistent uniform.

[Shuman 14]

SARDOC I hear you, I'm just pointing out that the USAF seems less concerned that AFJROTC cadets look exactly like AFROTC cadets who look almost the same as USAF members but wants CAP members to look different.

Also, I would submit to you that a quality pair of black boots will cost as much as a quality pair of coyote ones.

I also get that no one really wants to wear used boots, when I say "surplus" I didn't mean used. I'm already getting donated OCPs from NG units, which we are taking and putting in storage for future use by our cadets and we are also getting issued, but never worn boots too. I hope we'll be able to issue them to cadets in need in the near future.

[PHall]

SARDOC I hear you, I'm just pointing out that the USAF seems less concerned that AFJROTC cadets look exactly like AFROTC cadets who look almost the same as USAF members but wants CAP members to look different.

It's not the cadets, CAP or AFJROTC that the Air Force is concerned about, it's the senior members in CAP they're concerned about and they've been concerned since 1941.

[Fubar]

SARDOC I hear you, I'm just pointing out that the USAF seems less concerned that AFJROTC cadets look exactly like AFROTC cadets who look almost the same as USAF members but wants CAP members to look different.

That might be a byproduct of AFROTC actually being a part of the Air Force, where as CAP is an independent non-profit corporation that gets the honor of the using the title of "Air Force Auxiliary" under specific circumstances.

[SARDOC]

SARDOC I hear you, I'm just pointing out that the USAF seems less concerned that AFJROTC cadets look exactly like AFROTC cadets who look almost the same as USAF members but wants CAP members to look different.

Also, I would submit to you that a quality pair of black boots will cost as much as a quality pair of coyote ones.

I also get that no one really wants to wear used boots, when I say "surplus" I didn't mean used. I'm already getting donated OCPs from NG units, which we are taking and putting in storage for future use by our cadets and we are also getting issued, but never worn boots too. I hope we'll be able to issue them to cadets in need in the near future.

There are many policies applied to CAP that aren't applied to AFJROTC.  The AFJROTC also makes the requirement to return the uniform as it's US Government Property.  Families/Schools can be held financially responsible if they don't return the item. 

I don't disagree.  Most people will forgo "Quality" for price though.  Especially teenagers who may only wear them for 4-6 months.  Price is an important issue for many people though who just want to serve. 

I've made contact with my local airman's attic, they've already told me we can take as many OCP's as we want.  I just don't have anyplace to store them at the moment.  The day CAP/USAF authorizes them, I'll go there with a pickup truck.

[SAREXinNY]

Not to open up a new can of worms here, but has there been any discussion as to if/when OCPs will be authorized?

[PHall]

Not to open up a new can of worms here, but has there been any discussion as to if/when OCPs will be authorized?

Per the Pacific Region Commander, the request has been made and we're waiting on the response from the Air Force.

[Fubar]

Doesn't the request have to go all the way up to the SECAF? I would expect that will take awhile. Since the secretary spoke at the recent national conference, at least we know the secretary knows what CAP is.

[TheSkyHornet]

A senior official attending a CAP event often promotes this idea that big changes will come with rapid movement and support from on-high. Seldom does this seem to actually be the case.

A process is a process is a process.

[PHall]

Personally I'm just happy they actually made the request so that we can get an answer one way or the other.

[CAPJOE]

Not to open up a new can of worms here, but has there been any discussion as to if/when OCPs will be authorized?

Per the Pacific Region Commander, the request has been made and we're waiting on the response from the Air Force.

Gen Phelka was at our NDWG Conference in May. I was told by my Group Commander, at that time, that Gen Phelka was asked about the black boots. I was told that the General said that we will have black boots for the foreseeable future and OCP's are 3-5 years out.

[SierraOneThree]

Gen Phelka was at our NDWG Conference in May. I was told by my Group Commander, at that time, that Gen Phelka was asked about the black boots. I was told that the General said that we will have black boots for the foreseeable future and OCP's are 3-5 years out.

The OCP info is very much out of date by this point, and the boots.....well, there is a LOT of push by groups with a decent amount of weight at the National level to get rid of the black boots.

Not the NUC though. Fortunately the NUC is merely an advisory board.

[Paul Creed III]

For me, a single pair of well-maintained black boots serves me while in my flight suit, ABUs, or polo; and, if I were so inclined, technically blues as well. That's a nice bit of financial utility. If OCPs introduce a color other than black and the other uniform combos don't have that new color as an option, that may be a sticking point for folks.

I retire in 3 years, so I am not really going to worry about it. Even if OCPs were authorized today, the transition phase should get me to retirement with my current set of unforms.

[Shuman 14]

This is why I say authorize coyote and black boots with CAP's USAF-style uniforms. The USAF has already directed that coyote boots are the only boots to be worn with their FDU and coyote is what USAF, USSF and US Army are wearing with OCPs.

If you authorize both, those that have black are good for pretty much everything as Lt Col Creed already pointed out... but those who already possess, or would be so inclined to buy coyote, are good too.

You could also authorize coyote boots with corporate uniforms as well but where coyote with BBDUs and CFDU might not look too awful (yes, they would  ), they would look hideous with grey tac pants and a blue polo.

[CadetCarter]

Go to vanguardmil.gov

[Paul Creed III]

Go to vanguardmil.gov

FTFY: https://www.vanguardmil.com/

[SierraOneThree]

This is why I say authorize coyote and black boots with CAP's USAF-style uniforms. The USAF has already directed that coyote boots are the only boots to be worn with their FDU and coyote is what USAF, USSF and US Army are wearing with OCPs.

I was in a group setting in the past two months where someone asked the NUC chair why this wasn't a consideration, and his response was that "it wouldn't be uniform."

Now, this was also from the same gentlemen who later in the same conversation responded to the issue of black boot availability with the reasoning that the Navy still issues black boots, whilst completely glossing over the fact that the Navy authorizes both black and brown boots with NWUs. And, you know, every branch of the military issues brown boots in some capacity or other while only the Navy still issues black boots on a wide scale.

And I can't be the only person sick of the argument that "you can't shine brown boots the same as black!"

[Shuman 14]

And I can't be the only person sick of the argument that "you can't shine brown boots the same as black!"

Amen Brother, AMEN!