Where to find white on blue patches?

[jimmydeanno]

No, I measured them. They are 1/2 inch white to white.

6-6. Description and Proper Placement on the BDU, Utility Uniform, Field Uniform and Flight
Suits. All white on blue insignia will have 1/8 inch of blue showing at the widest and tallest point of
the insignia, except the Civil Air Patrol tape and the nametape. These two will be the width of the BDU
or field uniform pocket. When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia to
insignia not blue to blue.

Note, it says MEASURE FROM WHITE TO WHITE NOT BLUE TO BLUE. It says nothing about 1/4 inch space from blue to blue.

Right, but the measurements listed would require a 1/4 inch space between them.

If it is supposed to be 1/8 inch from the white to the edge of the blue and they're stacked on top of each other, the measurement must be 1/4 inch, unless the white to blue edge isn't measured correctly.

Either way, something is wrong.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I get what your saying now. Thank you.

[SarDragon]

The cloth insignia are placed in exactly the same manner as metal insignia would be placed. The first one is measured from the top of the tape to the white part of the first insignia, and then white to white after that. See CAPM 39-1, Table 6-4 for further info.

Y'all are making this entirely too complicated, IMHO.

[Hawk200]

No, I measured them. They are 1/2 inch white to white.

6-6. Description and Proper Placement on the BDU, Utility Uniform, Field Uniform and Flight
Suits. All white on blue insignia will have 1/8 inch of blue showing at the widest and tallest point of
the insignia, except the Civil Air Patrol tape and the nametape. These two will be the width of the BDU
or field uniform pocket. When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia to
insignia not blue to blue.

Note, it says MEASURE FROM WHITE TO WHITE NOT BLUE TO BLUE. It says nothing about 1/4 inch space from blue to blue.

From the Air Assault to the CIB looks right, but the Air Assault from tape to badge looks too close. The white to white doesn't include the nametape lettering. I know some people think it does.

The way the pub is written is funky. The nametape is not a badge, and the way it writes it as "insignia" isn't consistent with the insignia that constitutes a badge.

No badges should be flush to the tape.

[Hawk200]

The cloth insignia are placed in exactly the same manner as metal insignia would be placed.

That's probably what I should have said.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The nametape is not a badge, and the way it writes it as "insignia" isn't consistent with the insignia that constitutes a badge.

No badges should be flush to the tape.


That is kind of odd, I know Army Air Force and their ROTC and JROTC counter parts make them all flush.

[SarDragon]

Why all the questions?

The reg, when fully read, is specific about proper placement. [Emphasis mine.]

Cloth Name Tape (ultramarine blue)

embroidered in white cotton thread

centered immediately above the right breast pocket of the BDU or field uniform shirt and BDU or dark blue field jacket.

CAP Aviation Badges (CAPR 35-6)

embroidered in white cotton thread

centered 1/2 inch above the cloth "Civil Air Patrol" tape worn over the left breast pocket of BDU, field uniform and BDU or dark blue field jacket.

6-6. Description and Proper Placement on the BDU, Utility Uniform, Field Uniform and Flight
Suits. All white on blue insignia will have 1/8 inch of blue showing at the widest and tallest point of the insignia, except the Civil Air Patrol tape and the nametape. These two will be the width of the BDU or field uniform pocket. When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia to insignia not blue to blue. For more instructions see Chapters 2 and 4. Figures 6-2, 6-3, 6-10, 6-11, and 6-12 illustrate the white on blue grade insignia. Figures 6-16 through 6-20 illustrate the various insignia that may be worn on these uniforms. Table 6-4 outlines the placement of these items.

[Hawk200]

The nametape is not a badge, and the way it writes it as "insignia" isn't consistent with the insignia that constitutes a badge.

No badges should be flush to the tape.


That is kind of odd, I know Army Air Force and their ROTC and JROTC counter parts make them all flush.

We didn't do that when I was in the Air Force. I've known a few people that got "spoken to" when badges were flush to tapes on BDUs. Not done on ABUs, either.

In line with what SarDragon said, an easy way to tell spacing is to pin the metal equivalent directly on top of the embroidered insignia. If the spacing isn't half inch between the tapes and then the badges, then it's off.

The Army wears it's first badge at a 1/4". That almost always ends up with the badge practically flush to the tape. That's not how the Air Force does it. The Air Force way can look wierd, but it's simply different. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Fixed it. Thank you on the clarification.

[Eclipse]

The cloth insignia are placed in exactly the same manner as metal insignia would be placed. The first one is measured from the top of the tape to the white part of the first insignia, and then white to white after that. See CAPM 39-1, Table 6-4 for further info.

Y'all are making this entirely too complicated, IMHO.

Seriously - 10 years and I just got that as well.

Great explanation!

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Some better terminology in the 39-1 along with better illustration would be absolutely great! I think that NHQ should task someone with real knowledge of how the uniform should look and what would fit better would be really helpful. New updated pictures would be great also.

I am going to start a thread for any and all questions about the uniform. I have a few other questions, and I'm sure that others do too.

[Hawk200]

Some better terminology in the 39-1 along with better illustration would be absolutely great! I think that NHQ should task someone with real knowledge of how the uniform should look and what would fit better would be really helpful. New updated pictures would be great also.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[HGjunkie]

Hmmm. Just got done looking through the manuals for CAP and USAF, and not even the USAF manual specifies how the badges are measured, just says to center 1/2 inch from nametape.

The cloth insignia are placed in exactly the same manner as metal insignia would be placed. The first one is measured from the top of the tape to the white part of the first insignia, and then white to white after that. See CAPM 39-1, Table 6-4 for further info.

Y'all are making this entirely too complicated, IMHO.

I guess that makes sense. When I finally am able to get my GTM3 signed off, i'll worry about it then.

[NIN]

IIRC, the bottom badge was "cheated" ever so slightly downward to make it look more correct, as going 1/2" "top of tape to bottom of white" and then 1/2" "top of white to bottom of white" made the spacing between the bottom badge and the nametape look wrong.

And my rule is "if it looks wrong, it probably is wrong."

Wore it like that for years, nobody threw a stitch gauge on it to check, because it "looked right."

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Wow, those are nicely done, the edges of your badges are really nice and straight. did you do them yourself? I do my own now, because I can't find any where that sews patches straight, I can't either, but I think I get just as close as they do, and it's free.

[NIN]

I've sewn my own insignia on my uniforms since I was 14 years old and my mom taught me how to use the sewing machine.

I learned a secret a number of years ago to correctly folding insignia.   A little elmers water soluble spray adhesive helps with the folding.  Trim the insignia so you don't have a ton of overlap in the back between the folds, give it a quick spray, fold two parallel sides accurately (and quickly.. you can reposition it if you're moving fast and you need to make a slight adjustment) and let it dry under a weight of some sort (to keep it flat).  Spritz it again and fold the other two parallel sides, and again, let it dry under something to keep it flat.

Now, if you want, spray the back again, and position it on the uniform for sewing.  The water soluble adhesive washes out eventually.

I find that I get much more square insignia this way, and much more accurately placed than with pinning.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Very nice, thank you. I have tried it with  thin cardboard inside but that didn't work out well.

[BGNightfall]

Brief necropost, rather than hijack another guy's thread.

So the discussion about having custom white-on-blue military insignia made IAW 39-1 sparked a question that I would pose to the esteemed body of CAPTalk.

Would the aeronautical insignia (Pilot, Flight Officer, Aircrewman, Flight Surgeon, etc. but not the Air Warfare) of the US Naval services (Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard) be properly rendered in white thread on blue field, or would yellow/gold thread be more appropriate given the gold color of the insignia?

[DC]

Brief necropost, rather than hijack another guy's thread.

So the discussion about having custom white-on-blue military insignia made IAW 39-1 sparked a question that I would pose to the esteemed body of CAPTalk.

Would the aeronautical insignia (Pilot, Flight Officer, Aircrewman, Flight Surgeon, etc. but not the Air Warfare) of the US Naval services (Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard) be properly rendered in white thread on blue field, or would yellow/gold thread be more appropriate given the gold color of the insignia?

I would think yellow would be appropriate; look at the grade insignia for Majors.

[MIKE]

I could go either way.  On utilities devices are subdued black on OD, but if you were to use coverall or ODU insignia they would be "gold" on blue.