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NEC

Started by mikeylikey, May 11, 2006, 08:59:57 PM

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mikeylikey

Lets all make some popcorn and watch the NEC this weekend!  WOOHOO

http://civilairpatrolnhq.sitestream.com/Live.vsml

I did hear a rumor they will be looking into voting on a few uniform changes, any predictions?
What's up monkeys?

Al Sayre

Blue Double Breasted Navy Uniform Style coat without sleeve braid for wear with the new White/Blue CAP Distinctive uniform.
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

whatevah

[tongue firmly in cheek]
you have nothing better to do on Mothers Day weekend?
[/tongue]

anybody else get that weird email from magnetmail.net?   what's up with NHQ using all these different outside web companies?
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

Matt

Too much money in the budget?

Or perhaps they're using reverse psychology... Use more than is allotted for budget thus the need for more is greater?
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>

Al Sayre

Just picked this up over on Cadet Stuff:

The NEC Just voted on a new service dress for SM's.

This new corporate service uniform consists of:

Service Cap or Flight Cap
White Shirt
USAF Blue Tie
Blue Double Breasted Coat w/sliver or white braid on cuff
USAF Blue trousers
Plain Black Shoes and socks.

1. Members must meet grooming standards to wear this uniform. Weight standard does not apply.

2. Headgear is now required for this uniform. members have 2 choices. Service Cap is USAF with addition of silver braid instead of black chinstrap. Flight Cap is worn with Rank on the right and no CAP device. Flight cap is worn as per USAF Uniform. (NCO's blue braid, oficers blue/sliver and generals silver.) Service cap is worn as USAF.

3. Metal name tag is worn with CAP badges, ribbons and US cut outs. No military devices. Hard metal rank is worn.

4. Cadets over 18 who do not meet weight standards can wear this uniform with the cadet nametag.


Thanks to
Al Pabon, Captain, CAP
MN Wing PAO and Recruiting Officer

Well, I got the double breasted coat right anyway...
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

mikeylikey

yikes? Silver or white braid on the sleeves and on the service cap.  Can't wait to see pictures!!!
What's up monkeys?

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

fyrfitrmedic

 That looks like my fire-department dress uniform.
MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

Pace

I think it looks kinda sharp.  My problem with it is that this new corporate service dress (that overweight members are allowed to wear) looks way too much like the active duty service dress.  Plus, under that coat you won't be able to tell that the shirt underneath is white and not light blue.
Lt Col, CAP

Chris Jacobs

I just want to know what we are trying to acomplish with it.  Is it just trying to make a middle ground between what we have now.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

SarDragon

This is interesting. They're gonna let the overweight folks wear a uniform that is totally uncomplimentary, but someone who still meets USAF weight standards 42 years after joining CAP can't wear it because they choose not to shave.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

Nothing wrong with that - the bearded ones can't wear Air Force Blue today.

"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

Yeah, but I look a helluva a lot better in whatever I wear than most heavy guys of any hair length do in a double-breasted coat. If they want image, they sure aren't going about it the right way.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

shorning

Quote from: SarDragon on May 14, 2006, 05:57:15 AM
This is interesting. They're gonna let the overweight folks wear a uniform that is totally uncomplimentary, but someone who still meets USAF weight standards 42 years after joining CAP can't wear it because they choose not to shave.

Seems odd that they can't.  Do we really need three dress uniforms?  One for those who meet AF standards, one that are a little heavy, and ones that have facial hair.  I don't get it...

Pylon

Quote from: shorning on May 14, 2006, 06:23:59 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on May 14, 2006, 05:57:15 AM
This is interesting. They're gonna let the overweight folks wear a uniform that is totally uncomplimentary, but someone who still meets USAF weight standards 42 years after joining CAP can't wear it because they choose not to shave.

Seems odd that they can't.  Do we really need three dress uniforms?  One for those who meet AF standards, one that are a little heavy, and ones that have facial hair.  I don't get it...

We've already got three dress uniforms going.  They don't exactly break down in that manner, but we're expanding our closets faster than they can manufacture new doohickeys, new clothing, and new vendors.  Great job NHQ.   :clap:
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

mikeylikey

So there is pin on rank on the coat, and on the flight cap.  Won't this cause the same problem that happened before?  There will be many confused service men and women not sure what branch of service the individual they are saluting is from.  Or they will wonder what new Air Force uniform this is, and why they had not heard about it.  Could this be confused for a new Active Duty service dress?  My answer is yes, and in the months to come, I am sure we will hear stories of such happenings.  Other than that, from the pic, it may not be a bad looking uniform.
What's up monkeys?

ncc1912

As far as the new uniform is concerned, I say, 'to each, their own.'  I don't think it looks bad, but I don't think I would wear it either.

As for the details, but my only question would be, 'Why double-breasted?'  I would think that if you are going to design a uniform for a 'modern' organization you would use a modern style commonly excepted by most business wear makers.

I can think of only one person, besides those in the Navy, who wears a double-breasted suit: David Letterman.  David Letterman's build; however, does not represent a lot of those in CAP who must or would choose to wear a CAP distinctive uniform.  They are not very flattering to heavier people.  If you're tall and slender, you can usually pull off a DB suit with little tailoring, but otherwise they aren't very forgiving.  :-[

I think I would have chosen something a little more modern like James Bond's (Pierce Brosnan) everyday casual suit; Three-button, single-breasted with a wider-spread collar on the shirt.  8)

I think it is the decision was a little impulsive and should have gone through some sort of wear-test and feedback process, but the deed is done.  We'll live.  :-\
//SIGNED//
JUSTIN B. BAIER, Major, CAP
"Dislocated Member"
Civil Air Patrol - United States Air Force Auxiliary
Active-duty USAF
Seoul, Republic of Korea

Earhart1971

Quote from: SarDragon on May 14, 2006, 05:57:15 AM
This is interesting. They're gonna let the overweight folks wear a uniform that is totally uncomplimentary, but someone who still meets USAF weight standards 42 years after joining CAP can't wear it because they choose not to shave.

I think beards should be allowed, its a little Nautical, just like the Double Breasted Uniform.  Anybody remember Elmo Zumwalt?

I think British Airways allows Pilots to have beards.

My suggestions on BDUs, dump Camo, and I don't particularly care for Blue BDUs, in Florida solid Tan reflects the heat better, and is probably more highly visible from the Aircraft looking down on the ground team.

SarDragon

Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 16, 2006, 04:56:04 AM

I think beards should be allowed, its a little Nautical, just like the Double Breasted Uniform.  Anybody remember Elmo Zumwalt?

I think British Airways allows Pilots to have beards.

My suggestions on BDUs, dump Camo, and I don't particularly care for Blue BDUs, in Florida solid Tan reflects the heat better, and is probably more highly visible from the Aircraft looking down on the ground team.

Nautical? In today's Navy? Not even close! Beards went away forever on 1 Jan 1985. Before Zumwalt, to the best of my knowledge, they were not forbidden, just strongly discouraged.

Yes, I remember Zumwalt. I was on active duty before, during and after his time.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

ZigZag911

Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 16, 2006, 04:56:04 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on May 14, 2006, 05:57:15 AM
This is interesting. They're gonna let the overweight folks wear a uniform that is totally uncomplimentary, but someone who still meets USAF weight standards 42 years after joining CAP can't wear it because they choose not to shave.

I think beards should be allowed, its a little Nautical, just like the Double Breasted Uniform.  Anybody remember Elmo Zumwalt?

I think British Airways allows Pilots to have beards.

My suggestions on BDUs, dump Camo, and I don't particularly care for Blue BDUs, in Florida solid Tan reflects the heat better, and is probably more highly visible from the Aircraft looking down on the ground team.

I was going to suggest, to avoid needless conflict with USAF * USCG, that we consider the 'new corporate dress uniform' (or whatever it's called!) be khaki.....some of us remember the old summer 'suntan' uniform.....I believe at one time the Army or Air Force had a 'class A summer' version with a jacket.....since the current trend seems to be having blue BDUs match blue CAP distinctive, this might be another avenue to accomplish the same thing.

Or else some other color, even another shade of blue....I have no particular feeling, for or against the new uniform (although I wish they'd lose or else alter the sleeve braid...too flashy!!)

thefischNX01

I was going to propose a Khaki service uniform way back in September.  I had actually found a shirt that was cheaper than the AF style, but i wasn't sure how professional it looked
Capt. Colin Fischer, CAP
Deputy Commander for Cadets
Easton Composite Sqdn
Maryland Wing
http://whats-a-flight-officer.blogspot.com/

Earhart1971

Quote from: mikeylikey on May 15, 2006, 01:59:54 PM
So there is pin on rank on the coat, and on the flight cap.  Won't this cause the same problem that happened before?  There will be many confused service men and women not sure what branch of service the individual they are saluting is from.  Or they will wonder what new Air Force uniform this is, and why they had not heard about it.  Could this be confused for a new Active Duty service dress?  My answer is yes, and in the months to come, I am sure we will hear stories of such happenings.  Other than that, from the pic, it may not be a bad looking uniform.

Confused?  No, I think the National Commander is trying to get our own uniform so the Air Force can no longer dictate, the color of the day epaulet rank.

When I was in Air Force Basic the DI said if you are unsure Salute.

No Confusion, a lot of it is, some ( a minority of Air Force types) think CAP is nothing but a few wanna be types that could not get in the Air Force, so they are living their military dreams in the CAP.

Having been in both, I think CAP is a lot more fun, if only they would correct the pay problem, LOL!

If someone is walking by and he has more rank than you, you salute,

At Maxwell AFB they have foreign officers, attending some of the schools, and they get salutes all the time, and occasionally nobody know who outranks who, its OK, just salute.

Earhart1971

Quote from: thefischNX01 on May 16, 2006, 10:59:50 PM
I was going to propose a Khaki service uniform way back in September.  I had actually found a shirt that was cheaper than the AF style, but i wasn't sure how professional it looked

There are some great looking BDUs that come in solid TAN, and I just prefer a lighter color in the heat, if you are out slugging through the woods in the Florida Sun, tan is cooler, than dark blue.


The Green Camo - looks terrible, mixed with blue name tags, and such.

And the Camo has no function in CAP, we need to be visible from the air.


mikeylikey

They really should change the color of the nametapes and rank to match the Air Force.  Heck they changed to the blue and white tapes and rank when the Air Force adopted them in 1956?? (not sure, one book says 56, another says 65).  It sure would be easier to buy the Air Force subdued rank patch at the AAFES MCSS, then paying a crap load of shipping to vanguard.  I would like to see how much corporate CAP is making off the whole close capmart......outsource to vanguard thing.  CAPMART had a $34,000 gain in '04, and a $37,000 gain in '05.
What's up monkeys?

Matt

Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 17, 2006, 08:29:16 AM
[...] And the Camo has no function in CAP, we need to be visible from the air.

Orange Vest, Orange Helmet?

The real reason we wear the camo, as I'm to understand it is simplicity to the AF.  We get stuff free, can't beat free from the Gov't, we pay for it in taxes!
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>

thefischNX01

Personally, I don't have a problem with the blue on the Cammo...it makes us distinctive and separates us from the armed forces.  For me, it separates me from the actual military guys on campus, but still appear to be a "Defender of the Homeland" if you will.

I'll even admit to calling the air force style short sleeve and long sleeve uniform a "CAP distinctive" uniform.  Before you all start yelling at me, Here's my logic:

If you place officer in the USAF and USCG together in a line wearing the short sleeve shirt combo, they would look similar.  The only real difference is the Cover, Belt, Nametag and Epaulets.  (granted, the pants are slightly different, but to the casual observer, they're not).  If you add a CAP officer to the mix, the difference is pretty much the same.  The Cover has different insignia, and the nametag is grey, as are the epaulets.  The belt is where things get tricky, and personally, i wish we could wear a black belt with silver buckle to distinguish us a little more.  Additionally, I was a big advocate of the Wing Patch on the Blues because that further separated us from the USAF and USCG while in uniform (although I understand the logic behind it's removal). In my opinion, the blues are still distinctive, just not to the casual observer.  But then again, all military-esque uniforms look similar to the casual observer.   

Now, of course, i would never be so bold as to call the Service Dress a "CAP Distinctive" uniform...
Capt. Colin Fischer, CAP
Deputy Commander for Cadets
Easton Composite Sqdn
Maryland Wing
http://whats-a-flight-officer.blogspot.com/

Monty

Quote from: thefischNX01 on May 17, 2006, 07:24:22 PM
The only real difference is the Cover, Belt, Nametag and Epaulets.  (granted, the pants are slightly different, but to the casual observer, they're not).  If you add a CAP officer to the mix, the difference is pretty much the same.  The Cover has different insignia, and the nametag is grey, as are the epaulets. 

I don't want to jump to conclusions so, just to make sure we are on the same sheet of music.....what's a cover (in this context?)

CAPM 39-1 wasn't very forthcoming on "covers".... ;D  (Hopefully you get my hint.)

Mispelling names is one thing (all that abbreviation jazz.)  Calling someone/something the wrong name is way off course....

That'd be like Squadron A saying, "our cadets dogface to the banana patch often" while Squadron B says, "our cadets race to the nearest restaurant often."

ZigZag911

"Cover" = Hat! (flight cap, service cap, BDU cap....any headgear)

shorning

Quote from: ZigZag911 on May 17, 2006, 11:10:33 PM
"Cover" = Hat! (flight cap, service cap, BDU cap....any headgear)

I always thought "cover" was something you hide under when you did E&E.  Uh, I guess that's another reason always to use the correct terms for things...

ZigZag911

It's all a question of context, isn't it?!?

In an E & E situation, I'd sure like to have a lot better 'cover' than a hat!

shorning

Quote from: ZigZag911 on May 18, 2006, 05:14:45 PM
In an E & E situation, I'd sure like to have a lot better 'cover' than a hat!

Yeah...like Spectre...