NY "Civil Air Patrol Board" created

[isuhawkeye]

Aircraft have been used affectively, safely, and as a cost saving measure across the country for decades. 

Organised patrol patterns, at relatively high altitudes look for smoke plumes.  these plumes are then reported to a base.  CAP leaves, and then hot shots, smoke jumpers, or tankers are brought in to control the fire. 

CAP isn't fighting fire, nore are we flying low to see the flames.

[NYWG Historian]

George--shame on you, forgetting your unit history!   

NYWG Memorandum 47-2 summarizes the Wing's activities during World War II and includes a description of the Forest Patrol duties:

"The first official forest patrol by CAP in New York State was flown on 3 October 1943, when pilot Johnson Stewart and observer Phyllis K. Ingram inaugurated this vital State service.  Arrangements for the patrol with the Conservation Commission had been made by Major Leslie A. Bryan of Syracuse, based on an exhaustive study and report made by Captains E. R. Vadeboncoeur and R.V. Green of the same city.

The test plane was in continuous radio-phone communication with the fire tower observers along the routes, and as a result of this test, an enlarged patrol was formed, which cooperated effectively with the Conservation Commission and the Department of Forest Fire Control during the balance of the season."

Don't forget, during WWII, wood was a very precious commodity and I believe there were instances of saboteurs starting forest fires.  Even today, catching a fire early can save lives and property, nevermind the millions of dollars in firefighting costs. 

This goes back to the various threads on appropriate missions.  In the greater scheme of things, would I prefer to be doing really meaningful, adrenaline-pumping work? Absolutely.  But I was [darn] proud to be hauling water/collecting garbage and whatever else I could do for TWA 800; making sandbags for flooding in Queens; door to door assessments for the '98 Ice Storms; sorting donations at a warehouse after 9/11, etc. 

As a newly minted pilot and hopefully soon Mission Transport Pilot, I would kill for sorties like Forest Patrol that let me do really boring recon at altitude, building hours towards full fledged mission pilot.  Nothing glorious (unless we spot a fire!) but it helps people. 

After you cut through all the politics, BS, leadership challenges/vacuums, isn't that what it's all about?!

[RiverAux]

Aerial fire patrols certainly aren't required in more built up areas, but in very rural areas they can be needed.  Does NY still need them?  I don't know.  Heck, for all you or I know NY has a fleet of airplanes in the state forest service right now dedicated to this task.  It isn't uncommon for states to do that. 

[Pumbaa]

Why the debate?  Anything is good...  The more CAP can prove itself the more it can get.

ALway rememebr we can do it cheaper!  If NY has it's own fleet can you imagine how much per hour it costs to fly?  CAP can do it much cheaper.

NY CAP needs to get what it can...

Then they will come!

[BillB]

I've flown as a fire spotter and most of the arguements against it, don't (pardon the pun) hold water. Several years ago a wild fire started just south of the Gainesville Regional Airport. The city Fire Department asked CAP to assist spotting the fire hot spots. Actually it was done as a non-CAP flight. The FD gave me a radio on their frequency and I flew at 1000 ft AGL and reported the fires direction and where the hot spots were. At one popint I even warned one of the fire trucks that the fire was building behind them and they needed to move. The Control tower at the airport had a visual on me the entire time and warned incoming and outgoing aircraft to maintain runway heading to bypass the fire area.
Smoke from the fire blew to the east and never was above 500 feet. so there was no lack of visability, and was not think enough to hide the fire details on the ground. Since that time, the Florida Forest Service has based an aircraft at the airport, partly after being pushed into it by the city fire department.
Water bombers were not used, but they fly a specific direction in approaching and departing a woods fire, so off setting the spotter aircraft, causes no problems.

[IceNine]

I am of the school that we belong in any capacity that we can safely and effectively function under.  We have this great new home under the DHS why shouldn't we use it.  If we have to locate fires to keep the homeland safe thats our mission.  If we are tasked with looking for fuzzy pink unicorns to keep the homeland safe that too is our mission.  If we can do something we should.  Iowa put it best we are the low slow flying air force so lets use it.  We have to put a certain amount of hours on these planes anyway why not make it fun, instead of the 100 dollar hamburger

[Al Sayre]

Looking for wildfires in NY is not a waste of time.  When I was a Cadet. I lived in upstate New York, I still have relatives up there and I can assure you there are some mighty sparsly populated/densly forested areas once you get away from the larger cities. 

Just after my first solo, I was out in the practice area, which happened to be in the same area I was also a Volunteer Fireman, I spotted a small wildfire about 2 miles from the nearest  paved road.  I called back to the airport on unicom had them call the VFD and then relayed how to get the trucks in to the fire down some old logging roads.  Turned out to be some kids playing with matches had started it, and it probably would have burned a couple thousand acres if I hadn't been in the right place at the right time. 

California is densly populated too, but few would call patrolling for wildfires there a waste of time either.  YMMV...

[RiverAux]

We have this great new home under the DHS why shouldn't we use it. 

I must have missed our transfer from the Air Force.... 

[afgeo4]

We have this great new home under the DHS why shouldn't we use it. 

I must have missed our transfer from the Air Force.... 

We all miss it

[RiverAux]

Well, it appears the title of this thread was a little premature --- NY's Gov gave CAP a little slap in the face:

Civil Air Patrol Downed By Veto
Duplication and being counterproductive cited
Posted on July 10, 2007 at 2:09 am by Marc Gronich
The Civil Air Patrol (CAP) will not become a division of the state militia because it is unnecessary and duplicates the efforts of the State Emergency management Office (SEMO) through the State Disaster Preparedness Commission, according to the veto message issued by Governor Eliot Spitzer.

The measure, sponsored by Senator James Seward (R-C Milford, Otsego County) would have created the Civil Air Patrol Board, within the Division of Military and Naval Affairs, to provide state agencies with communications, rescue work, and aerial observations in the interest of national defense and public welfare.

The governor wrote in his veto message the only need for such a board "would be to coordinate the provision of CAP services during the time of an emergency." That is already accomplished by SEMO.

"Effective coordination of emergency response, by its nature, needs to be centralized. If the CAP Board were set up to duplicate the coordinating function now being performed through SEMO, the effect would be to impede coordination, not enhance it," Spitzer wrote in his veto message.

The CAP is a national, federally-chartered organization that serves as an official civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force. It is supported not only by federal appropriations but also by other sources such as membership dues and corporate and private donations

From here: http://swnsonline.com/?p=277

[SARMedTech]

If the NY Wing of CAP can be used for other such missions as the Assembly shall see fit, does that mean that NY politicos can now use it as their private charter air service?  Somebody get me CAP on the phone, I want to fly to Albany...for FREE!