Do Senior Members without Grade wear epaulets on the corporate aviator shirt?

[Eclipse]

Specifically says polo can be worn during flight ops. 

Yes, it does, however that does negate the other MBU requirement.

[Luis R. Ramos]

The quotes you made do not state the polo is a minimum required uniform. Just that it can be worn during flight ops. This skirts the issue!

Some seniors look to regulations and manuals and choose which parts they want to abide with as if they are a supermarket on which they can choose different brands as they wish. Sorry, they are not like that.

You read "minimum," that is what you should get. If you want to buy and use the polo instead of the BDU or BBDU, that is fine but the polo is additional to the Blues or Aviator / Greys.

[etodd]

The quotes you made do not state the polo is a minimum required uniform. Just that it can be worn during flight ops. This skirts the issue!

I could say I bought it and then never wear it. What good is that? Polo is all I need.

Wing Conference  .... big event this weekend.

A) Senior members who do not own blues are given the option to wear the polo shirt and gray pants uniform for all activities during the day.

B) At the formal dinner, presentations and dance that evening, senior members who do not have dress blues may wear their Sunday best coat and tie.


^^^ And that my friends .... will increase attendance and will help with retention.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Sorry no dog-pilling intended but we answer as we read the messages. Most of the time it is two or three people answering at the same time. I am not going to erase something I spent 4 or 5 minutes typing!

[Holding Pattern]

http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/how_to_join/adults_faq/

Do I have to wear a uniform?
Senior members may be required to wear a uniform during some activities - such as when flying in CAP aircraft. Senior members may wear the USAF style blue uniform or one of the distinctive CAP uniforms.  However, some members choose to serve quietly without wearing a uniform.  You can purchase uniform items from Vanguard.  www.civilairpatrolstore.com.

Now, perhaps this is simply a distinction without a difference, but it sure lends the impression that one can join CAP as a SM and not wear a uniform, which would then make it follow that one wouldn't need to keep a uniform one would never wear in inventory.

Perhaps the FAQ should be updated?

[etodd]

Someone should update the FAQ here:

http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/how_to_join/adults_faq/

Do I have to wear a uniform?
Senior members may be required to wear a uniform during some activities - such as when flying in CAP aircraft. Senior members may wear the USAF style blue uniform or one of the distinctive CAP uniforms.  However, some members choose to serve quietly without wearing a uniform.  You can purchase uniform items from Vanguard.  www.civilairpatrolstore.com.

Now, perhaps this is simply a distinction without a difference, but it sure lends the impression that one can join CAP as a SM and not wear a uniform, which would then make it follow that one wouldn't need to keep a uniform one would never wear in inventory.

Perhaps the FAQ should be updated?

I was told I could be a member without a uniform, but if I wanted to get in the plane or work with Cadets, I needed to at least get the polo uniform. So I did.  Done deal.

[Eclipse]

99% of flying, working with cadets, and Es all require a uniform, the occasional PT night, staff meeting in civvies,
or someone working remotely don't really count as the "norm".

Right wrong, or otherwise, you'll find verbiage indicating that compliance is mandatory in on that same first page (actually now page 5).

It's been assumed a number of times that the MBU requirement would be removed or changed in the recent revs of 39-1,
yet it wasn't, even with the end-to-end re-write, so clearly NHQ intends it to be there for a reason.

Saying "you can't make me"or "we don't have to" isn't the most productive response in a case like this.

All it takes is the end of a term to cause an issue. Commander 1 is lax in enforcement, his term ends, the new guy runs things by the book and is now the "bad guy",
yet neither CC1 nor the member could be bothered to actually read and comply with simple rules.

[Holding Pattern]

99% of flying, working with cadets, and Es all require a uniform, the occasional PT night, staff meeting in civvies,
or someone working remotely don't really count as the "norm".

Right wrong, or otherwise, you'll find verbiage indicating that compliance is mandatory in on that same first page (actually now page 5).

It's been assumed a number of times that the MBU requirement would be removed or changed in the recent revs of 39-1,
yet it wasn't, even with the end-to-end re-write, so clearly NHQ intends it to be there for a reason.

Saying "you can't make me"or "we don't have to" isn't the most productive response in a case like this.

All it takes is the end of a term to cause an issue. Commander 1 is lax in enforcement, his term ends, the new guy runs things by the book and is now the "bad guy",
yet neither CC1 nor the member could be bothered to actually read and comply with simple rules.

Well, like I said, CAP isn't doing itself favors by stating on the recruiting site that SMs don't need to wear a uniform.

[etodd]

All it takes is the end of a term to cause an issue. Commander 1 is lax in enforcement, his term ends, the new guy runs things by the book and is now the "bad guy",
yet neither CC1 nor the member could be bothered to actually read and comply with simple rules.

OK. I'll order the blues so I can honestly say I have the minimum uniform in my closet collecting dust. Does that make everyone happy? Is someone here getting a commission from Vanguard? Just kidding! LOL

Also, you must have missed my post above in regards to the Wing Conference. Have Conferences always been this relaxed or is this something new at Wing level?

[Eclipse]

Well, like I said, CAP isn't doing itself favors by stating on the recruiting site that SMs don't need to wear a uniform.

Agreed.  While it's the CC's job to make the clarification and distinction, these kinds of statements, which are clearly intended to
try and "soften" initial expectations, don't actually accomplish the goal, and probably actually work against it.

The inconsistency of member experience and expectation is a huge problem in regards to retention.  Similar organizations tell
the membership what they will wear, and let the chips fall.  With that said in the same way that there isn't really any other organization like
CAP, there isn't really another that is a schizophrenic about it's appearance and expectations.

[Storm Chaser]

OK. I'll order the blues so I can honestly say I have the minimum uniform in my closet collecting dust.

Or, you could buy the aviator shirt, which is much cheaper, and actually wear it. 

Also, you must have missed my post above in regards to the Wing Conference. Have Conferences always been this relaxed or is this something new at Wing level?

Most wings actually required attendees to wear either the AF-style service uniform or the corporate aviator shirt uniform.

[etodd]

Also, you must have missed my post above in regards to the Wing Conference. Have Conferences always been this relaxed or is this something new at Wing level?

Most wings actually required attendees to wear either the AF-style service uniform or the corporate aviator shirt uniform.

So .... maybe the wind is shifting?  As I said, it'll help attendance and retention.  All is good.

[Eclipse]

OK. I'll order the blues so I can honestly say I have the minimum uniform in my closet collecting dust.

Or, as an option, you could wear it properly.

Also, you must have missed my post above in regards to the Wing Conference. Have Conferences always been this relaxed or is this something new at Wing level?

It wasn't relevent - the UOD for a single activity doesn't dictate the national policies, or even indicate a trend.  That was just as likely the realization by the POC that
if they pressed the uniform issue, attendance would be lower, or that person(s) may have a preference themselves.

There's a difference between allowing an authorized uniform in a given circumstance, and that uniform being the minimum required.

[etodd]

Or, you could buy the aviator shirt, which is much cheaper, and actually wear it. 

Polo is more comfortable and I don't have to worry about starching and ironing and having folks criticize if I'm wrinkled.

I haven't flown an actual SAR Mission yet, but if I ever do, one thing I'm sure of. The folks on the ground hoping to be found don't give a flying flip what the folks in the airplane are wearing.

(With that I'll quickly sign off and go hide under a rock.)

[Storm Chaser]

Or, you could buy the aviator shirt, which is much cheaper, and actually wear it. 

Polo is more comfortable and I don't have to worry about starching and ironing and having folks criticize if I'm wrinkled.

I haven't flown an actual SAR Mission yet, but if I ever do, one thing I'm sure of. The folks on the ground hoping to be found don't give a flying flip what the folks in the airplane are wearing.

(With that I'll quickly sign off and go hide under a rock.)

No one said you had to wear the Aviator shirt when flying, but that's not all CAP does. There are times when a more formal uniform is appropriate.

[etodd]

There are times when a more formal uniform is appropriate.

Yes, and thats the bottom line I suppose. I have the uniforms I need to participate in the areas of CAP I'm involved in. Other folks are interested in other areas and may want to advance in grade and work at Wing level, etc., so certainly they will have different uniform needs. To each his own and may all be happy in their endeavors.

[Майор Хаткевич]

There are times when a more formal uniform is appropriate.

Yes, and thats the bottom line I suppose. I have the uniforms I need to participate in the areas of CAP I'm involved in. Other folks are interested in other areas and may want to advance in grade and work at Wing level, etc., so certainly they will have different uniform needs. To each his own and may all be happy in their endeavors.

Point --->>> whoooosh.

You.

[Fubar]

Also, you must have missed my post above in regards to the Wing Conference. Have Conferences always been this relaxed or is this something new at Wing level?

Every wing conference I've been to in my wing has allowed the polo uniform and typically it's the most popular. In fact, every CAP activity I attend, nearly everyone is in the polo uniform. A couple of times during joint training with state officials it was actually the required uniform. There is usually a small smattering of aviator shirts/BBDU, usually folks who really care about rank. Only a small few wear blues/BDUs, they tend to be folks with serious interest in the military but didn't serve (and usually have the same fondness for rank).

The wing commander and a few on staff usually wear blues. One told me that they bought the getup for national meetings and figured they'd get their money's worth out of 'em. Made sense to me.

I've never seen anyone be treated differently for the uniform they wear. It's a pretty good arrangement, everyone gets to wear what they prefer and get the job done.

I'm not sure why our regulations require a uniform to be bought that is never needed to be worn. You should never waste a volunteer's time or money.

[MHC5096]

The blank grey shoulder marks aren't nearly as bad as the blank dark blue ones that GS-05/07 Customs and Border Protection Officers are required to wear on a dark blue uniform.

[kwe1009]

To further clarify my earlier statement (sorry but that is what happens when you make a post after a VERY long day).  I am NOT telling my new Senior Members to violate any CAP regulation.  CAPM 39-1 does not set a timeline for purchasing uniforms.  I tell my new members to get the polo simply because it is cheap and easy.  I want to get them in the door and active and then they can choose what uniform they wish to purchase by the time their first promotion comes up.  We do promotion ceremonies for everyone (cadets and Senior Members) and everyone is either in blues or aviator shirt.  We don't promote people wearing BDUs (except for the Curry).  We don't promote people wearing just the polo either. 

My reason for this approach?  It was a group decision among the Senior Members.  It was decided that the polo (we also encourage that the person get their name embroidered on it too) is that it is easy to maintain and you don't have to try and figure out where to put the name tag.  It was also done so people wouldn't have to purchase the blank shoulder boards and only use them for a few months.  As many others have stated here, the polo shirt is an acceptable uniform for nearly all CAP activities (meetings, flying, training events, conferences, etc.) so we start them off slow and work up to the more formal uniforms.