Boot regs?

[LadyROBOcop]

I wanna get new boots because the ones I have were given to me from my unit supply and they are too big. I have small feet and seems I would need a size 6 or 7 regular, the ones I have now are 8. Just want to know if there is any specific "type" other than the 2 listed on vanguard (jungle and leather combat) or if the boots just have to be black. Not looking to spend too much maybe around the $50 range.

[Extremepredjudice]

39-1 has the regs.

If you go to an army/navy store they should have boots.

Make sure you can polish the boots.

Other than that it is really personal preference.

[Al Sayre]

Check out Wardens:  http://wardenssupplyco.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6&sort=20a&page=1

Here is a size chart, so if you can't find someting in women's try a comparable/equivalent one in men's:    http://wardenssupplyco.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=739

Also
Bargain Outfitters (Men's are much cheaper):  http://www.bargainoutfitters.com/net/Main.aspx
Sportsman's Guide: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/Main.aspx?

[Eclipse]

Make sure you can polish the boots.

Why?

[Extremepredjudice]

Make sure you can polish the boots.

Why?

So he should buy boots that don't polish?
Because boots that polish are better because you want to look professional.
And pass inspections.

[Eclipse]

There is no regulatory requirement that boots be polish-able, unless they are worn with a dress uniform.
Tactical-style boots are perfectly acceptable, more readily available, and are arguably more appropriate for members who don't wear combat boots on a regular basis.  They are literally available at Walmart under $50.

As long as they are kept neat and clean, there is no reason tac boots would not pass a properly performed inspection. 

Last I checked, the majority of the military services have moved, or are moving, away from polish-able boots for the majority of their personnel.

[lordmonar]

I don't think I have ever seen split sued boots in black......but I agree...if someone were to find them then they can wear them.

[jks19714]

The Army ditched their shiny boots when they went to the ACU (2006?).

http://www.tacticalgearcommand.com/acu/regulations.html

When you're in the field, shiny boots are a PITA.  FINALLY some of the Uniform Nazis (cousins of the Soup Nazis) made a good decision.  How it got past some of the SGMs is a mystery to me though. 

Why we need to have members spending time shining their boots back up after tromping through the fields and woods looking for crash sites and ELTs is a mystery to me too.

[Eclipse]

I don't think I have ever seen split sued boots in black......but I agree...if someone were to find them then they can wear them.

My wing's DC wears them with the Blue field uniform, not my cup of tea, but they look very nice.

[Extremepredjudice]

CAPM 39-1
Table 2.1
7, footwear.

highly polished=polishable boots.

[PA Guy]

CAPM 39-1
Table 2.1
7, footwear.

highly polished=polishable boots.

I believe your cite refers to footwear worn with the Men's Service, Mess Dress and Semi Formal uniforms not BDUs.

When you come in from the field knock the crud off of them slap some polish on buff them and you should be good to go.

[SarDragon]

OK, now let's look at the whole citation, and not just the little piece that supports you.

This one's from the dress uniform section:

Black, with or without safety toe; must have a
plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with
or without perforated seam; zipper or elastic
inserts are optional; no designs. Highly
polished, high gloss, or patent leather.

This one's from the BDU section:

Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped
toe with or without perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional,
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a
high gloss or patent finish.

The rest of the footwear entries are non-specific about shininess.

Since the OP is likely going to be wearing these boots with a utility type uniform, shininess isn't important, or a requirement.

[Extremepredjudice]

CAPM 39-1
Table 2.1
7, footwear.

highly polished=polishable boots.

I believe your cite refers to footwear worn with the Men's Service, Mess Dress and Semi Formal uniforms not BDUs.

When you come in from the field knock the crud off of them slap some polish on buff them and you should be good to go.

While I do agree don't go uniform natzi on GT's boots, they should polish them. It keeps the boots in better condition, and waterproofs them better. Just saying.

Lots of bad things happen to wet feet in enclosed spaces, especially if they are in there for a long time.

But still, unless you are going to buy 2 pairs of boots, you need some that came be polished.

Sardragon, oops, I didn't realise I was in the wrong section. You are correct.

[Eclipse]

But still, unless you are going to buy 2 pairs of boots, you need some that came be polished.

Again, please cite a single situation in CAP which mandates that you purchase boots that requiring polishing.

Dress uniforms allow for their wear, that doesn't make them required.

[ol'fido]

I keep hearing people say you need to keep your boots polished to help waterproof them. If they are not Goretex or an equivalent, polish may help but the judicious application of Mink Oil will go a lot farther than the Kiwi.

[titanII]

I keep hearing people say you need to keep your boots polished to help waterproof them. If they are not Goretex or an equivalent, polish may help but the judicious application of Mink Oil will go a lot farther than the Kiwi.

+1,000,000
Hmmm, which is better for waterproofing, wax or the oils of an animal that spends most of it's time in the water?
If you really care about the functionality of your boots,  then you WILL get ones with Gore-Texx and Vibram-type soles. Nothing else is as good.

[Eclipse]

Sympatex seems to be more prevalent in boots then Gore-Tex, but it's the same idea.

[dogboy]

I wanna get new boots . Not looking to spend too much maybe around the $50 range.

For a Cadet (with feet that will outgrow boots in a year) and non-Ground Team Senior members, I recommend boot 5094 at

http://www.galaxyarmynavy.com/products.asp?cat=101

decent boots for $50.

The typical non-Ground Team Senior will never wear them out and a cadet will outgrow them.

Note: my Wing requires all-leather boots for aircrew.

[PHall]

I wanna get new boots . Not looking to spend too much maybe around the $50 range.

For a Cadet (with feet that will outgrow boots in a year) and non-Ground Team Senior members, I recommend boot 5094 at

http://www.galaxyarmynavy.com/products.asp?cat=101

decent boots for $50.

The typical non-Ground Team Senior will never wear them out and a cadet will outgrow them.

Note: my Wing requires all-leather boots for aircrew.

Yeah, California Wing tried to tell me that the fabric sided Bellevue flight boots I was issued in the Air Force weren't "good enough".
I ignored them. The bloody things are certified flight boots and are also good to go for chemical environments too.

[SARDOC]

Note: my Wing requires all-leather boots for aircrew.

Um...Why is that?   Is this the same state that requires all aircrew wear nomex too?

[Eclipse]

I don't think I have ever seen split sued boots in black......but I agree...if someone were to find them then they can wear them.

My wing's DC wears them with the Blue field uniform, not my cup of tea, but they look very nice.

Turns out they are US Navy issue for wear with the NWU (authorized only for wear ashore):
http://www1.netc.navy.mil/swos/SWOS_Files/docs/NWUFAQ.doc


http://www.batesfootwear.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/19848M/0/Mens/9-inch-US-Navy-Suede-DuraShocks-Steel-Toe-Boot?dimensions=0
(They sure ain't cheap, ranging online from $2-300 dollars)
They have a very unique and "flat" appearance, and I'm told they are very comfortable.

[Spaceman3750]

They look nice but my new boot budget isn't that big...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Looks like the basic shape of jungle boots. Since I got mine 8.5 years ago, used, they have been good to me. But they may need replacement soon.

[Eclipse]

I see a few on eBay under $100, assuming they aren't knock offs.

[davidsinn]

I don't think I have ever seen split sued boots in black......but I agree...if someone were to find them then they can wear them.

My wing's DC wears them with the Blue field uniform, not my cup of tea, but they look very nice.

Turns out they are US Navy issue for wear with the NWU (authorized only for wear ashore):
http://www1.netc.navy.mil/swos/SWOS_Files/docs/NWUFAQ.doc


http://www.batesfootwear.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/19848M/0/Mens/9-inch-US-Navy-Suede-DuraShocks-Steel-Toe-Boot?dimensions=0
(They sure ain't cheap, ranging online from $2-300 dollars)
They have a very unique and "flat" appearance, and I'm told they are very comfortable.

Those don't meet the reg because they are not smooth or scotch grain leather.

[sandman]

I don't think I have ever seen split sued boots in black......but I agree...if someone were to find them then they can wear them.

My wing's DC wears them with the Blue field uniform, not my cup of tea, but they look very nice.

Turns out they are US Navy issue for wear with the NWU (authorized only for wear ashore):
http://www1.netc.navy.mil/swos/SWOS_Files/docs/NWUFAQ.doc


http://www.batesfootwear.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/19848M/0/Mens/9-inch-US-Navy-Suede-DuraShocks-Steel-Toe-Boot?dimensions=0
(They sure ain't cheap, ranging online from $2-300 dollars)
They have a very unique and "flat" appearance, and I'm told they are very comfortable.

Those don't meet the reg because they are not smooth or scotch grain leather.

Not a problem if you choose to wear the blue BDU (aka "CAP Field Uniform): "Any type plain black shoe or boot may be worn."
(I mean...right guys? You've already looked this up....I'm not quoting any "breaking news", am I?)

[Grumpy]

I wanna get new boots because the ones I have were given to me from my unit supply and they are too big. I have small feet and seems I would need a size 6 or 7 regular, the ones I have now are 8. Just want to know if there is any specific "type" other than the 2 listed on vanguard (jungle and leather combat) or if the boots just have to be black. Not looking to spend too much maybe around the $50 range.

Wal-mart has them on sale for $31.00.  8 eyelet, jungle type, blk

[Major Lord]

It should be crystal clear to anyone in the Cadet Program that boots don't have to be polished, just uniformly black. Cadets love to turn the BDU combo into a garrison uniform, with pressed in seams where none live according to nature, sewn down pocket flaps, cardboard hat stiffeners, and enough starch to make the uniform go up like a white phosphorus grenade in a tank of Avgas. That being said, wear of boots is authorized for wear with the Service Uniform, and you should not wear your snake-bit, scraped and plastic zip ties replacing your laces on side-zip tactical boots. I wear boots with blues during activities like BCS, etc and find them a lot more comfortable for extended wear than low-quarters, but that's the only time I would spend the time to actually polish ( versus clean and re-black) a pair of boots. I maintain two pair: field and garrison. I usually buy mine at Big 5, when their tactical boots go on sale, I stock up.

Major Lord

[Spaceman3750]

I don't think I have ever seen split sued boots in black......but I agree...if someone were to find them then they can wear them.

My wing's DC wears them with the Blue field uniform, not my cup of tea, but they look very nice.

Turns out they are US Navy issue for wear with the NWU (authorized only for wear ashore):
http://www1.netc.navy.mil/swos/SWOS_Files/docs/NWUFAQ.doc


http://www.batesfootwear.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/19848M/0/Mens/9-inch-US-Navy-Suede-DuraShocks-Steel-Toe-Boot?dimensions=0
(They sure ain't cheap, ranging online from $2-300 dollars)
They have a very unique and "flat" appearance, and I'm told they are very comfortable.

Those don't meet the reg because they are not smooth or scotch grain leather.

Not a problem if you choose to wear the blue BDU (aka "CAP Field Uniform): "Any type plain black shoe or boot may be worn."
(I mean...right guys? You've already looked this up....I'm not quoting any "breaking news", am I?)

I wonder what happens to them when you, say, take a trip through a stream, rainstorm, or 8" of snow.

[Eclipse]

Those don't meet the reg because they are not smooth or scotch grain leather.

Not a problem if you choose to wear the blue BDU (aka "CAP Field Uniform): "Any type plain black shoe or boot may be worn."(I mean...right guys? You've already looked this up....I'm not quoting any "breaking news", am I?)

Correct - the only person I know who wears them does so with the BBU.  I only posted the photos as an example and Lord mentioned if black sued existed, they'ed be fine.

I wonder what happens to them when you, say, take a trip through a stream, rainstorm, or 8" of snow.

I would imagine your feet get pretty wet and the suede will get stained - not the kind of thing I'd wear in the field rainy conditions, snow, etc.
However on a ramp at an airshow, encampment, or unit meeting, they would fit the bill fine.

Bottom line, boots don't have to be shine-able to be within reg, and using the age-old "shine parties" as the reasoning doesn't fly anymore because the majority of the services are moving away from shine-able boots, as their people have more important things to do with their time.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Epic grave dig, but appropriate instead of a new topic. What of someone wanted white laces? Nothing in CAPM39-1 specifies lace color...

[Eclipse]

Epic grave dig, but appropriate instead of a new topic. What of someone wanted white laces? Nothing in CAPM39-1 specifies lace color...

And an atomic wedgie.

But you're correct, the only comment about shoelaces is in regards to the Honor Guard uniform.  Something else to fix, I suppose, in the new rev, if only to negate the conversation.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And convo there is! You specifically sir would go ballistic.

[Eclipse]

And convo there is! You specifically sir would go ballistic.

I can only imagine.

The argument could be made on a common sense level, or from a regs standpoint that no standard combat boot comes with white laces, etc.,
but the odds are if they showed up that way, they are trying to either make a "statement", or are totally clueless.  Either is going to make
for a long afternoon.

Then there's the other part about a unit CC who let's them wear them that way for meetings, too.

You could also have them talk to a Chief about it.  :clap:

[SarDragon]

I wore white ladder-laces in my boots to a meeting one night, WIWAC, just for a reaction check, and, as expected, I was promptly requested to find some black laces. They looked sharp, but were not uniform, so therefore not permitted.

[That Anonymous Guy]

I wanted to get some boots (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00814TZ94) that don't polish. Their worm by the Marines in tan and issued to the SEAL candidates at BUDs, made in the USA. What do you guys think?

[vento]

I wanted to get some boots (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00814TZ94) that don't polish. Their worm by the Marines in tan and issued to the SEAL candidates at BUDs, made in the USA. What do you guys think?

Looks good to me. A little pricey, but that what's we pay for a good pair of boots. Bates are comfortable.

[Storm Chaser]

Polishing boots may not be required by regulation, but depending on the boot material (i.e. type of leather) they can look more professional if shined. When I wore black leather boots in the Air Force, it was common to shine them; although in some career fields they were probably not shined as much. When my current Air Force suede boots get dirty or stained, it's really hard to clean them and they don't look good after awhile. I've never had that problem with black leather boots. In fact, I still shine my CAP boots and they always look pretty good.

[That Anonymous Guy]

I wanted to get some boots (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00814TZ94) that don't polish. Their worm by the Marines in tan and issued to the SEAL candidates at BUDs, made in the USA. What do you guys think?

Looks good to me. A little pricey, but that what's we pay for a good pair of boots. Bates are comfortable.

Yeah my last boots were $60 and made in China and haven't even lasted a year. So I figured with two years left in the program these will actually save money.

[Devil Doc]

I just bought some old Military Black Army Boots at the Army Navy store. Do i wish i had some boots that had the zipper on the side or looks stylish sure. But i got them for like 40 bucks. Boots are boots IMO

[That Anonymous Guy]

Boots are boots IMO

Unless they start cracking and peeling in the back as a c/A1C.

[NIN]

If you live in one of the northeastern states that are "not far" from Rhode Island, you can find an Ocean State Job Lot (kind of like Big Lots) and they carry black ICB-style boots from Wellco (they have the desert-style boots, too, but the black ICB-style are probably far more interesting) for like $25 or something.

They also have black oxford style shoes for around $20.

http://oceanstatejoblot.com/locate/

[SarDragon]

These do not look like rough out leather. Why can't you put a little polish on them?

[bflynn]

they can look more professional if shined.

I don't know about professional, but when shined they sure look like someone spent a lot of effort on them.  I'm rarely impressed, what else could have been accomplished in that time that would have a real impact on operations?

[Storm Chaser]

they can look more professional if shined.

I don't know about professional, but when shined they sure look like someone spent a lot of effort on them.  I'm rarely impressed, what else could have been accomplished in that time that would have a real impact on operations?

It teaches cadets excellence and attention to details. Using that argument, we would have to get rid of drill and ceremonies, customs and courtesies, etc. since they have no "real impact on operations".

[a2capt]

Everything in moderation. They don't have to mirror gloss. But sitting around at the end of the day, in the staff room at encampment provides plenty of time, while recapping the days events.. if you're spending hours on hours, you're doing something wrong.

[Private Investigator]

they can look more professional if shined.

I don't know about professional, but when shined they sure look like someone spent a lot of effort on them.  I'm rarely impressed, what else could have been accomplished in that time that would have a real impact on operations?

It teaches cadets excellence and attention to details. Using that argument, we would have to get rid of drill and ceremonies, customs and courtesies, etc. since they have no "real impact on operations".

I agree.

When I was on active duty in the Marines we had Marines after Boot Camp that became 'slackers'. When asked why they had something that was "unsatisfactory". Their excuse is, "I am a field Marine!" Well in 'the field', those slackers who was slackers in garrison, were slackers in the field too. 

And we all know about 'excuses', everyone has one   

[J2H]

I wear black Jungle boots... I can polish if needed, paid 55 for them (and NOT rothcos)

[bflynn]

we would have to get rid of drill and ceremonies, customs and courtesies, etc. since they have no "real impact on operations".

Drill and C&C teach discipline, belonging, respect and teamwork, which absolutely have real impact on operations.

Sitting at home and putting a mirror shine on a pair of shoes looks like you spent too much time on them.  Each person only has so much time and energy, why encourage anyone to waste that time.  If someone spends hours trying to shine shoes rather than working on their next award or qualification, which has a direct impact on our missions?

I'm not suggesting that people be allowed to look like dirt bags.  The standard is for blackened shoes.  My personal preference is to brush them off to a glossy shine and make sure the sides of the soles are blackened.  They look professional, just like they do when I wear them for work.

[Storm Chaser]

we would have to get rid of drill and ceremonies, customs and courtesies, etc. since they have no "real impact on operations".

Drill and C&C teach discipline, belonging, respect and teamwork, which absolutely have real impact on operations.

Sitting at home and putting a mirror shine on a pair of shoes looks like you spent too much time on them. Each person only has so much time and energy, why encourage anyone to waste that time.  If someone spends hours trying to shine shoes rather than working on their next award or qualification, which has a direct impact on our missions?

I'm not suggesting that people be allowed to look like dirt bags.  The standard is for blackened shoes.  My personal preference is to brush them off to a glossy shine and make sure the sides of the soles are blackened.  They look professional, just like they do when I wear them for work.

Ahh...but I never said "mirror shine"; you did. I also didn't say you had to spend "too much time on them"; you did. In fact, if you spend "too much time" shining boots, you're probably not doing it right. Unless they're really dirty, I can shine mine in 5-10 minutes.

As someone who's been wearing Air Force uniforms for over 26 years, both in CAP and in the Air Force (active duty, guard and reserve),  and I stand by what I said before: shined boots look more professional.

[bflynn]

I didn't claim that you said it.  I said it. 

But I do challenge the idea that you can spit shine a pair of boots in 5 minutes, unless you're talking about just touching up an existing shine.  I can't get my kit out, shine normally, blacken the soles and put everything away in 5 minutes.

[Storm Chaser]

I didn't claim that you said it.  I said it. 

But I do challenge the idea that you can spit shine a pair of boots in 5 minutes, unless you're talking about just touching up an existing shine.  I can't get my kit out, shine normally, blacken the soles and put everything away in 5 minutes.

Maybe you need training.

[NIN]

I haven't worn my jump boots in like 4 years. They still look pretty tip-top. 'Bout 10 minutes and they'd be color guard/funeral ready.

[a2capt]

Not quite five minutes, by the clock, but sure seemed like it. A couple of guys did it in front of me at HIWG encampment.. while we were sitting in the office going over stuff after the days activities.

[J2H]

High gloss boots ;-)

[Grumpy]

High gloss boots ;-)

If you're talking about those things that look like patton leather (SP?).  The ones I have seen look cheap.  I'd rather give my leather boots a good old fashioned spit shine. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

If you're talking about those things that look like patton pattern leather (SP?).  The ones I have seen look cheap.  I'd rather give my leather boots a good old fashioned spit shine.

FTFY

Flyer

[a2capt]

If you're talking about those things that look like patton pattern leather (SP?).

I think you mean 'patent' leather.. pseudo patent..

[Luis R. Ramos]

Drat.

Failed the test.



You are right. Should have been "Patent" leather.

Flyer

[SarDragon]

Real patent leather is actually real leather, with special processing. This in not to be confused with variants of poromeric material, the stuff originally known as Corfam.

[J2H]

I wear Galls High Gloss boots or jungles

[Grumpy]

What happens when you scratch them?  How do you go about fixing the scratch?  With polish, I just fill it in.
Plus, I can get my boots to look better than patent leather or Corfam.

[Storm Chaser]

What happens when you scratch them?  How do you go about fixing the scratch?  With polish, I just fill it in.

That's one of the reasons I always polish my boots; even my field pair. The shoe polish protects the leather and when they get scratched, I can put more polish on top and fill in the scratch.

[Eclipse]

I wear Galls High Gloss boots or jungles

For field use?

What happens when you scratch them?  How do you go about fixing the scratch?

You can't.  Anything more then the most superficial scuff ruins them permanently, and will look worse then an unshined normal boot.
These are intended for parades, not active wear.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Looks nice. And impractical.

[Storm Chaser]

I wear Galls High Gloss boots or jungles

For field use?

What happens when you scratch them?  How do you go about fixing the scratch?

You can't.  Anything more then the most superficial scuff ruins them permanently, and will look worse then an unshined normal boot.
These are intended for parades, not active wear.

I was referring to regular leather on my previous post. I would not wear high gloss boots even for a special event. They're just not my cup of tea.

[Grumpy]

I wear Galls High Gloss boots or jungles

For field use?

What happens when you scratch them?  How do you go about fixing the scratch?

You can't.  Anything more then the most superficial scuff ruins them permanently, and will look worse then an unshined normal boot.
These are intended for parades, not active wear.

A little elbow grease and Kiwi, rolled cotton, a lighter and water.  I can get me leather boots to look like that.

[NIN]

Ahhh, the kabuki theater of the profession of arms....

[J2H]

I wear them at meetings. And for my security gig.  Wore  them as an armorer too in Germany

[airmaneaster12]

If your boots can't take a shine at first try heating them uo with a lighter

[SarDragon]

If your boots can't take a shine at first try heating them uo with a lighter

NO, NO, NO!

That's the easiest way to wreck the leather! Also, melting the polish makes some of the good stuff evaporate, and degrades it.

[bflynn]

We've been through that in a uniform thread recently.  The purpose for polishing boots is to work the wax into the leather and make the boots last longer.  The purpose of heating wax and melting it so it can quickly be buffed to a high shine is to look good. 

Using the first method and a few weeks of work, you can get high gloss boots.  Using the second, you can get damaged boots that look shiny in a few hours.  They're your boots, your call.

[Grumpy]

If your boots can't take a shine at first try heating them uo with a lighter

NO, NO, NO!

That's the easiest way to wreck the leather! Also, melting the polish makes some of the good stuff evaporate, and degrades it.

Interesting.  I've been melting my polish into my boots since I was a cadet back in 1959 and all through my Air Force years.  Especially when working the Main Gate as one of them there "Aero Policemen".  I'm still doing it that way.  Never had any problem and I'm not saying that to be snide Dave.

[SarDragon]

PM sent.