American Flag Patch. Creased or not?

[a2capt]

... Though conceptual, perhaps one wouldn't be shocked at what is found in a go-bag at some point..

[tsrup]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military

This will come as a surprise to the folks at Maxwell.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.

I don't carry an iron in my GoBag.

  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

I'll remember that, the next time I spend three days on a SAR without getting home.

I don't think anybody reasonably expects your BDUs to look perfect while out in the field.

However, when it comes to weekly meetings, there is no reason for you to look like you just walked out of the field, or from the bottom of a hamper.


The fact is that people are judged on appearance whether you want to accept that or not.  What if I was at a meeting looking like a ragamuffin in BDU's, and a new prospective cadet shows up with his/her retired AF parents?  What kind of assumption do you think they are going to make about our program?

We can talk all we want about how appearances don't matter but that is one instance where looking like a slob can loose it before you even get a chance to prove that you are indeed a committed individual.

So, we can either wear blues for every weekly meeting and save our field uniforms for the field, or we can spend an extra 20-30 minutes a week to make them look presentable and professional.

[Eclipse]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military

This will come as a surprise to the folks at Maxwell.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.

I don't carry an iron in my GoBag.

  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

I'll remember that, the next time I spend three days on a SAR without getting home.

How many uniformed CAP members work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day at NHQ?
And how often are you gone three days on a "SAR"?

The average CAP member wears their uniform a few hours a month, and few do any extended missions where they don't go home at night
or aren't in a hotel (hotels have irons and washing machines).

[Stonewall]

I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes.

I have been fighting this since I could think on my own.

Why is there an option?  People always say I'd rather have someone who can perform in the field (or insert job) over someone that knows how to wear a uniform properly.  I call BS.  I want and demand both.

If you can carry a 60 lbs ruck sack 20 miles but can't wear your uniform correctly, then you're of no use to me.  If you can spit shine your boots but you can't pick up that same ruck sack because you're weak, then you are of no use to me. 

When you can do both, then we'll talk.

[Sapper168]

I have been fighting this since I could think on my own.

Why is there an option?  People always say I'd rather have someone who can perform in the field (or insert job) over someone that knows how to wear a uniform properly.  I call BS.  I want and demand both.

If you can carry a 60 lbs ruck sack 20 miles but can't wear your uniform correctly, then you're of no use to me.  If you can spit shine your boots but you can't pick up that same ruck sack because you're weak, then you are of no use to me. 

When you can do both, then we'll talk.

Totally agree with this.

[CJB]

"Dress & Appearance" is assessed on the EPR.  Wearing the uniform right is part of your duty.  The same goes for personal fitness.

You can't make the blanket statement that someone who pays attention to detail on their uniform doesn't display the same work ethic in their job.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Regardless, I just want to know if I should iron the flag and wing patch, because I care enough not to look like a bag of ass.

If it is a practice in your squadron, then yes. If it isn't, then no  .

This is a practice in the Air Force.  CAP has been afforded the privilege of wearing the same uniform as the Air Force.  Therefore, everyone must accept the responsibility of adhering to the same standards of dress & appearance, per CAP policy.

[Stonewall]

This is a practice in the Air Force.  CAP has been afforded the privilege of wearing the same uniform as the Air Force.  Therefore, everyone must accept the responsibility of adhering to the same standards of dress & appearance, per CAP policy.

As of 1 NOV 11 CAP no longer wears the same utility uniform as the Air Force.  The Air Force doesn't wear American flags on their BDU/ABUs anyway.  On multi-cams, you may wear a velcro flag on your sleeve but then multi-cams aren't ironed, nor are ABUs for that matter.  Not to mention, if you did happen to wear a flag on your right sleeve on your battle uniform, it would be in a deployed location where no one would/should be ironing or creasing their sleeves anyway.

And FWIW, I think the flag on the CAP BDUs is silly.  But that is (and has been) another debate.

[AngelWings]

I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes.

I have been fighting this since I could think on my own.

Why is there an option?  People always say I'd rather have someone who can perform in the field (or insert job) over someone that knows how to wear a uniform properly.  I call BS.  I want and demand both.

If you can carry a 60 lbs ruck sack 20 miles but can't wear your uniform correctly, then you're of no use to me.  If you can spit shine your boots but you can't pick up that same ruck sack because you're weak, then you are of no use to me. 

When you can do both, then we'll talk.

That right there is the best comment I've seen on this thread. I'm happy I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

[lordmonar]

There is no reason to demand both.

But a lot of times in CAP....with cadets I see an inappropriate amount of time devoted to the uniform and spit shine and not what is really important.

I see that as our (the CP leaders) fault.....and I correct it as necessary.

When one of my cadets shows me his spit shined shoes and razor creased short sleeve shirt and tells me how many hours he spent on them.  I congradulate him....good job.....then immediatly ask him what he scored on his last leadership or AE test.  I ask him if his element/flight mates are all squared away.  I ask him where he stands on his SDA's.

Wearing the uniform properly and going the extra mile are all well and good....but not at the expense of the other things they need to do as a cadet.

[tsrup]

There is no reason to demand both.

But a lot of times in CAP....with cadets I see an inappropriate amount of time devoted to the uniform and spit shine and not what is really important.

I see that as our (the CP leaders) fault.....and I correct it as necessary.

When one of my cadets shows me his spit shined shoes and razor creased short sleeve shirt and tells me how many hours he spent on them.  I congradulate him....good job.....then immediatly ask him what he scored on his last leadership or AE test.  I ask him if his element/flight mates are all squared away.  I ask him where he stands on his SDA's.

Wearing the uniform properly and going the extra mile are all well and good....but not at the expense of the other things they need to do as a cadet.

And I will always demand that my cadets excel at both.  It's part of setting the bar high.  It is never as cut and dry as those who polish their boots suck at tests, and those who are good at the mission wear sloppy uniforms.
Exceptional people find a way to meet and exceed the standards that are set for them.

I know where CAP ranks on the list when it comes down to priorities (school, work, family, etc..), but there is no reason that 20 minutes cant be spent on a uniform, and the tests aren't that hard, especially since we teach the material at the meetings and provide mentors for those who don't quite understand it.

Cadet does great on a test?  Fine, what kind of example are they setting if they look like he crawled out the bottom of his closet. 
Cadet has a great uniform?  Fine, How did they test?

Cadet has both?  That is my new cadet (enter staff position here).

[Stonewall]

There is no reason to demand both.

I see this and the first thought that comes to mind is "typical Air Force mind-set".  Truth is, it's probably more of a typical American mind-set.  To me, it goes along with "no one loses" in sports these days.

[Hawk200]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

Of course, I'd go back to the shop, relate my story, and most of us would have a laugh at your expense.

Some of us ended up with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots because we were working. Thankfully, the one writing my EPR would know that, and wouldn't dock my EPR for doing my job.

[Eclipse]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

[PHall]

Just joined and I came here to find the answer.  Looks like there really isn't one.

You can cite that the BDU is a "utility" uniform, but that doesn't mean we don't get them gussied up for inspections.  The permanent press ABU with suede boots was introduced to be more practical.  Before the ABU, Airmen spent hours starching and pressing the BDU and polishing boots, regardless of the fact that the BDU was originally intended to be a wash and wear uniform.  I knew guys that had the crease stitched into their SNCO stripes.  The same goes for blues; you wanted a razor sharp crease right through the chevrons.  Now that I'm wearing patches that go right where a crease should be, I can only assume that the BDU should be pressed as usual.

Also, when the ABU was introduced, it was directed that an iron should never touch the new uniform.  So, if you see someone with creased chevrons, you know they're breaking the rule.  That policy is also unclear.

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Gee, let me guess. A career Admin troop. Has never worked outside of a cubicle...

[jimmydeanno]

Just joined and I came here to find the answer.  Looks like there really isn't one.

You can cite that the BDU is a "utility" uniform, but that doesn't mean we don't get them gussied up for inspections.  The permanent press ABU with suede boots was introduced to be more practical.  Before the ABU, Airmen spent hours starching and pressing the BDU and polishing boots, regardless of the fact that the BDU was originally intended to be a wash and wear uniform.  I knew guys that had the crease stitched into their SNCO stripes.  The same goes for blues; you wanted a razor sharp crease right through the chevrons.  Now that I'm wearing patches that go right where a crease should be, I can only assume that the BDU should be pressed as usual.

Also, when the ABU was introduced, it was directed that an iron should never touch the new uniform.  So, if you see someone with creased chevrons, you know they're breaking the rule.  That policy is also unclear.

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Gee, let me guess. A career Admin troop. Has never worked outside of a cubicle...

Yeah, and NCOs are the ones who "work for a living."   

[AngelWings]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

Hit the head on the nail. It is only an excuse so people can be lazy.

[Spaceman3750]

Where's SarDragon and his clock when you need him...

[SarDragon]

[SarDragon]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

Hit the head on the nail. It is only an excuse so people can be lazy.

Somehow, I don't think you have the necessary experience in the right places to be making that statement.

[lordmonar]

There is no reason to demand both.

I see this and the first thought that comes to mind is "typical Air Force mind-set".  Truth is, it's probably more of a typical American mind-set.  To me, it goes along with "no one loses" in sports these days.

You know...though....I meant to say....that there is no reason NOT to demand both.

But all the rest still applies.  You meet the standards.  I demand that you do....all of the standards....I see a lot of people in the USAF, CAP or even in the "real" world who focus all their attention on to just one side of the standards.  The spend so much time exceeding one standard that they only become marginal on the others.

So....I try to redirect their attention to all the standards.