American Flag Patch. Creased or not?

[ELMO]

I have noticed that many people will crease the American flag patch on their BDUs. In my opinion it shouldn't be creased at all. But is there a manual for this type of thing or is it just do whatever you feel is right? I want to hear some opinions.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

No crease in patches.
The 39-1 says nothing about whether or not to crease patches, but I don't crease either the American Flag, nor do I crease the wing patch.

[DC]

I've never bothered, but I don't crease the sleeves of my BDUs either. I press them, but creasing is going too far for a uniform that I wear when I am expecting to be working and possibly get dirty.

[ELMO]

Then why does the Manual specify where The creases shouldnt be? If there is a place where they shouldn't be then they should be somewhere. No? I mean for the past 3 years that I've been in CAP I've always wondered how even at encampment they specify that the crease should line up with the crease if the BDUs and in the center of the epaulets for blues. How did they come up with it? It doesn't just come out of thin air does it?

[DC]

Then why does the Manual specify where The creases shouldnt be? If there is a place where they shouldn't be then they should be somewhere. No? I mean for the past 3 years that I've been in CAP I've always wondered how even at encampment they specify that the crease should line up with the crease if the BDUs and in the center of the epaulets for blues. How did they come up with it? It doesn't just come out of thin air does it?

The requirement to crease the the sleeves of the blues shirt from the center of the epauletcomes from when wing patches were worn with blues. It looked really strange if the patch was not creased straight down the middle, and on blues you are without a doubt required to crease the sleeve.

[SarDragon]

Just say no. There is no reason to crease flags or patches. They look goofy, and it wears out the patch or flag that much sooner.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

There are a few reasons not to crease patches, some think it is disrespectful to what the patch represents, it does wear out the patch really fast, and if it has a point where it is creased, it will cause it to fray really fast.

The best way to crease your sleeve is to fold the patch in half with your hand and then iron the sleeve, if your patch looks like it has been folded, then just iron it flat again.

[Shotgun]

I thought I remembered reading something about creasing BDU's -

Did some research and found the following:

Table 2-3  CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual 23 Mar 2005

Table 2-3. Men's and Women's Battle Dress Uniforms 1 Shirt (Long Sleeve) Cotton and nylon twill or rip stop cotton; single-breasted with four bellow pockets with flaps; straight-cut bottom sleeve tabs, and side body panels with or without take-up tabs. Long sleeve camouflage pattern (woodland green) may be rolled up; if rolled up, sleeve material must match shirt and will touch or come within 1 inch of forearms when arm is bent at a 90-degree angle; may be removed in the immediate work area. When removed, T-shirt (other than athletic or sleeveless style) will be worn. Military creases are prohibited.

There is also an entry in the CAP knowledge base regarding this.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Table 2-3  CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual 23 Mar 2005

Military creases are prohibited.

There is also an entry in the CAP knowledge base regarding this.

Yes, this has been hashed and rehashed. Military creases are only done my the Marine Corps. Military creases are on the chest going all the way from the top of the shirt to the bottom (2), and on the back there are three. Military creases has nothing to do with the sleeves, otherwise we wouldn't be able to crease the sleeves of the blues shirts either.

[SarDragon]

Once again, we're NOT talking about military creases here.

Military creases are vertical creases down the front and back of a shirt (five in all - two front and three back) that have not been a part of CAP culture for many years.

[Eclipse]

These shirts have permanent military creases:

[s.imbriale]

In regards to creasing the sleeves on the BDU and also the patches themselves:

It is basically optional. There is nothing in 39-1 that prohibits it, but there also isnt anything that specifies it. Some would say that means dont do it, and if you decide not to you could use the before mentioned argument that "it's not in the regs".

However, a lot of Air Force enlisted do it and they often times put the crease right through there rank chevrons. However, they dont wear an American Flag on there sleeves. I agree that 1) It does damage the patches and 2) it may be viewed as disrespectful. I also agree that if you DO crease the sleeves, it can look sloppy to have the top portion where the patch is not creased. 

It's also interesting to note that on the ABU, creases are already permanently part of the uniform - both bottoms and tops. 

In my humble opinion, it all comes down to personal preference. Maybe it can even be designated on the unit level. I'm navy, so I dont know the AF regs, but maybe some duel AF-CAP personnel can post their opinion. Is it in any AF reg?  Maybe the Chief of Staff of Alaska Wing!  Thanks all.

[Shotgun]

Once again, we're NOT talking about military creases here.

Military creases are vertical creases down the front and back of a shirt (five in all - two front and three back) that have not been a part of CAP culture for many years.

Awesome!  Thanks for clarifying!  The whole concept makes sense now.

I stand enlightened and corrected!

[jimmydeanno]

On my BDUs I not only crease the wing patch, but *gasp* the American Flag patch, too.  It doesn't look like poo because I don't go crazy on the crease.  I've had the same patches on my BDUs since the American Flag requirement came out and there isn't any fraying, premature wear issues, discoloration, fading, etc.  It's been, what, 6 years now?  And I'm very active, wearing it around 15 hours per week, multiple encampments, SAREXs, local events, etc.  The average CAP member *might* wear their BDUs 5-7 hours per month.  Even if you wear it 15 hours per month you still aren't putting anywhere near normal use on it. 

Creasing the American Flag patch isn't disrespectful and it certainly doesn't affect how American anyone is or how much Patriotism they have.  It also is not against our uniform manual.  Either way, I don't care if someone does, or doesn't - as long as their uniform looks presentable and in good repair.

[majdomke]

To me it's disrespectful to touch the American flag with an iron that could possibly burn or damage the material. It is expressly told to our cadets the same. You certainly could make it a local unit reg. In all my dealing with people across the California Wing, I can't recall but about one or two people I've seen do it. Certainly not widespread but perhaps worthy of addition to the next 39-1 so its "official".

[manfredvonrichthofen]

To me it's disrespectful to touch the American flag with an iron that could possibly burn or damage the material. It is expressly told to our cadets the same. You certainly could make it a local unit reg. In all my dealing with people across the California Wing, I can't recall but about one or two people I've seen do it. Certainly not widespread but perhaps worthy of addition to the next 39-1 so its "official".

:clap:

[Ned]

To me it's disrespectful to touch the American flag with an iron that could possibly burn or damage the material.

I'd never heard that before.  Even after 20+ years as an Army guy and 40+ years in CAP.

Heck, we used to iron the unit colors yearly before inspections.  How else does one smooth a wrinkled American flag?  And when we got a new flag, it came folded rather tightly, and had some serious wrinkles remaining after we unfolded it.  Is it better to display colors with severe wrinkles than to simply iron it?

Would it be wrong to repair a simple seam separation with a sewing machine?

It is expressly told to our cadets the same.

Did you mean that it is in a pamphlet or regulation somewhere or that that is what you tell your cadets based on local tradition?

[majdomke]

I'd never heard that before.  Even after 20+ years as an Army guy and 40+ years in CAP.

Of course you've never heard it before Ned, it was my opinion I was expressing. I here it echoed all the time when I discuss with other leaders.

[wacapgh]

WIWOAD the Battalion Sergeant Major kept it simple:

"This is a COMBAT uniform. You're supposed to look like you were shot with a wrinkle gun! I'll Article 15 the [4th point of contact] of anyone who even thinks about using an Iron..."

No good thing ever survives the relentless attrition of the Pouge's, REMF's, and Fobbitt's.

Remember back in the 70's when the "big thing" was to have your fatigues custom embroidered - name, rank, badges, etc. actually sewn INTO the shirt, no backing material or tapes. The Cav Store was laughing all the way to the bank.

[majdomke]

Did you mean that it is in a pamphlet or regulation somewhere or that that is what you tell your cadets based on local tradition?

This would be a squadron regulation

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Remember back in the 70's when the "big thing" was to have your fatigues custom embroidered - name, rank, badges, etc. actually sewn INTO the shirt, no backing material or tapes. The Cav Store was laughing all the way to the bank.

I remember back in in 2004 when that was Battalion policy.

[wacapgh]

I thought that had died with the "OG-107s" !

[AngelWings]

I've seen the Blue Angels wear their special ultramarine blue flightsuits with a huge(can't tell if it is printed, embroidered, or a patch) American flag creased right down the center. Creasing the flag shouldn't be an issue. I've never done it, simply because that it would go against how I was taught, but I never once thought it was a bad idea. Getting mad at someone who irons the flag is nothing short of rediculous. It is an allowed personal prefernce until CAPM-39-1 says it isn't allowed. But don't get me wrong, if your squadron doesn't do it, then you should do it because it would look out of uniform.

[Fubar]

It is an allowed personal prefernce until CAPM-39-1 says it isn't allowed.

Regulations don't spell out what you can't do, they spell out what you can do. If they had to write a regulation that listed everything you can't do, it would be several thousand pages long and probably still not complete.

Usually whenever I've seen something spelled out in a regulation expressly forbidding something, it's because the membership isn't sticking to the concept of the regulation telling them what they can do while performing mental gymnastics to justify their deviance from the regulation. Eventually the leadership gets tired of arguing and expressly forbids something via regulation. I assume that's why CAPM 39-1 has printed in bold in the very first section, "COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized."

[majdomke]

 :clap:

[lordmonar]

Fubar,

The concept of regulations is two fold.

They tell you what you MUST do.
They Tell you what you MUST NOT do.

They recommend things you should or should not do.

Everything else is up for grabs.

That is one problem of the "regs dogs".  If we are only allowed to do things specifically allowed by regulations.....then anything not in the regulation must be forbidden.

Where is the regulaiton on going to the bathroom?  Where is the regulation on undershorts?   Where is the regulation on blowing your nose?

If regulations were the be all, end all of how we do things.....there would be no need for leaders.

Leaders are there to make the call to fill in the gaps between the Must Do, the Don't Do and Should Do in the regulations.

As for crease or no crease.....lacking any other guidance then as Littleguy said it is a personal preference.  If you disagree.....all you have to do is write a local supplement to 39-1 that says "at the Homer J. Simpson Comp Squadron we will/will not crease our flag patches".

[/rant]

[Fubar]

Where is the regulaiton on going to the bathroom?  Where is the regulation on undershorts?   Where is the regulation on blowing your nose?

To my knowledge, they haven't been written, but we do have a regulation on uniform wear. So I follow it to the best of my ability. If I come across something not covered by a regulation, I look to my leaders to provide direction.

Well, except for when it comes to going to the bathroom. I more or less have the direction thing down on my own.

[SII-117]

Most leaders are helpful, but only to a certain extent. Toilets are one thing like that.

[ELMO]

I'm the Cadet Commander of squadron 22 at Travis AFB, CA and I set high standards for my cadets but ironing the uniform is a bare minimum. I hate seeing cadets and senior members taking advantage of the great responsibility and privilege it is for Civil Air Patrol to wear the uniform and you should at least make it presentable! I am totally against not ironing the uniform! People see us as the military because they don't know the difference. We represent not only Civil Air Patrol but the military and the United States as a whole! So when you wear the uniform it doesn't matter if you wear the BDUs or the Blues, you make it as presentable as possible! We don't go in battle so saying that it is a battle dress uniform as an excuse to not iron it at all is just plain pathetic and shows arrogance and lack of respect for the uniform. Wear the uniform with pride and respect.

I'm not singling out anyone. I'm just giving my opinion so dont get angry at me when you get your feelings hurt. I'm just saying the true facts.

[SII-117]

As a Cadet Stan/Eval, I am forced to quote CAPM 39-1-
A Reverse American Flag should be worn on the right shoulder.
In all of the images in 39-1, Not A Single One is Ironed!
Also being a 1stSgt, I am asked this question a lot.
This should settle it.

[lordmonar]

As a Cadet Stan/Eval, I am forced to quote CAPM 39-1-
A Reverse American Flag should be worn on the right shoulder.
In all of the images in 39-1, Not A Single One is Ironed!
Also being a 1stSgt, I am asked this question a lot.
This should settle it.

And if it is ironed?  What then?

Not wanting to beat you up or anything....but because I said so is not.....or I don't see it in the picture does not mean that is what the standard is.

Bottom line....Ironed or not....there is no standard from 39-1.....so if someone wants to make it standard all they have to do is make a supplement and get the word out to their subordinate.

[Eclipse]

And be aware that a supplement only has weight at or below the level it is approved, so even if your commander approved it, you'll
see others outside your unit doing something different and you have no standing to make an issue of it.

Further, 39-1's visuals are nearly useless as a guide, considering that they still show wing patches on blues (some not even sewn on),
only one grade insignia on cadet collars, and the ribbon racks look like they were put together by someone unfamiliar with the concept
of "order of precedence", among other issues.

In all of the images in 39-1, Not A Single One is Ironed!

Where are you looking?  Because in the current rev of 39-1, there isn't a single image of the flag patch on the right shoulder.
In at least one of the 4 BDU photos, however, the left sleeve is clearly pressed all the way up through the wing patch.

[Major Lord]

Unless they sneaked a new 39-1 by, the word "flag" does not appear in the regulation. The wear of the flag on the BDU was mandated by a policy letter, and it has not been approved by the Air Force for wear on the Air Force style uniform. Creased or not.....

Major Lord

[SarDragon]

Unless they sneaked a new 39-1 by, the word "flag" does not appear in the regulation. The wear of the flag on the BDU was mandated by a policy letter, and it has not been approved by the Air Force for wear on the Air Force style uniform. Creased or not.....

Major Lord

That is absolute BS, and you know it! It appears several times, in items related to flight suits/jackets, and color/honor guard.

As for the artwork in the reg, some of those graphics are over 40 years olde, so using them as an absolute reference is not as a good idea.

[Major Lord]

You are absolutely right, the word "Flag" does appear in the 39-1. I goofed in the pdf word search. Maybe I missed that part about wearing the flag on the Air Force style uniform too........or maybe not.

Major Lord

[SII-117]

Hmm. I seemed to have missed something.
Well. My mistake.

[CJB]

Just joined and I came here to find the answer.  Looks like there really isn't one.

You can cite that the BDU is a "utility" uniform, but that doesn't mean we don't get them gussied up for inspections.  The permanent press ABU with suede boots was introduced to be more practical.  Before the ABU, Airmen spent hours starching and pressing the BDU and polishing boots, regardless of the fact that the BDU was originally intended to be a wash and wear uniform.  I knew guys that had the crease stitched into their SNCO stripes.  The same goes for blues; you wanted a razor sharp crease right through the chevrons.  Now that I'm wearing patches that go right where a crease should be, I can only assume that the BDU should be pressed as usual.

Also, when the ABU was introduced, it was directed that an iron should never touch the new uniform.  So, if you see someone with creased chevrons, you know they're breaking the rule.  That policy is also unclear.

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

[davidsinn]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

[NCRblues]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Bingo

[AngelWings]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Absolute BS. Do not insult my fellow brothers and sisters, who for when they had the BDU's, kept them well ironed and boots shined nicely. I guess you must be ignorant to the fact some people give to shi'as about how they appear, for pride reasons. If the American flag touches it, except for uniforms worn during combat, it should squared away. It is an insult to put any representation of America on something that looks like crap.

[NCRblues]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Absolute BS. Do not insult my fellow brothers and sisters, who for when they had the BDU's, kept them well ironed and boots shined nicely. I guess you must be ignorant to the fact some people give to shi'as about how they appear, for pride reasons. If the American flag touches it, except for uniforms worn during combat, it should squared away. It is an insult to put any representation of America on something that looks like crap.

Its not an insult.

I sat through a wing commanders call (39th wing) where the CMSAF was happy we were doing away with BDUs. He was pleased because in his words " it has become a game (about polishing boots and ironing) and we have started to judge airman not by their ability to do the job well, but by how much free time they spend on uniforms."

The very first day I could, i switch to ABU's. I was tired of doing a 14 hour panama shift, and having to go home (ignore my family) and polish and iron. Its time to move away from judgment on airman by WORK uniforms. You want to judge someone on uniforms, have em put dress blues on. That's the uniform to shine in. BDU/ABU's are for (shocking) WORK.

With the ops tempo as it is today, and the AEF cycle the way it is, lets allow members more time with families. The divorce rate for many jobs in the AF is through the roof. Suicide rates are extraordinarily high. why not make service members life a little easier. Wear the uniform proper, but don't overdue it.

[abdsp51]

I concur, to many folks spent more time worrying about how good they looked before during and after shift.  The guys that came to work looking good and stayed that way at the end didn't work.  I can say that because I monitored the radio and knew who was out doing their job and being active in things and who wasn't.  When it came time for an extra day off the guy/gal who busted their rear to be active and looked like they went through the ringer got it.  Thank god that ABUs are wash and wear, and the boots until that green leather gets cycled in are low mx.

[AngelWings]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Absolute BS. Do not insult my fellow brothers and sisters, who for when they had the BDU's, kept them well ironed and boots shined nicely. I guess you must be ignorant to the fact some people give to shi'as about how they appear, for pride reasons. If the American flag touches it, except for uniforms worn during combat, it should squared away. It is an insult to put any representation of America on something that looks like crap.

Its not an insult.

I sat through a wing commanders call (39th wing) where the CMSAF was happy we were doing away with BDUs. He was pleased because in his words " it has become a game (about polishing boots and ironing) and we have started to judge airman not by their ability to do the job well, but by how much free time they spend on uniforms."

The very first day I could, i switch to ABU's. I was tired of doing a 14 hour panama shift, and having to go home (ignore my family) and polish and iron. Its time to move away from judgment on airman by WORK uniforms. You want to judge someone on uniforms, have em put dress blues on. That's the uniform to shine in. BDU/ABU's are for (shocking) WORK.

With the ops tempo as it is today, and the AEF cycle the way it is, lets allow members more time with families. The divorce rate for many jobs in the AF is through the roof. Suicide rates are extraordinarily high. why not make service members life a little easier. Wear the uniform proper, but don't overdue it.

It should take anyone over 45 minutes to an hour to iron a uniform and polish boots. After that, it is overdone, and shows it. It takes me 30 minutes to iron my top and pants with sharp creases and a long lasting (even through dirt and mud) press, and a shine that looks healthy. I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms. BDU's are a work uniform, but not a wrinkle cloth. The boots are meant to take punishment, but should look black, not grey and neglected. I doubt an hour tops is a reason why suicide rates are going up.
It was an insult, by the way. Saying that somebody doesn't have real work to do because they ironed their uniform and polished their boots is an absolute slap in the face to those who went the extra mile to look squared away. During some squadron meetings, I've run through the dirt, get down on my back to fix things, throw on gear and such, and my uniform lost its crispness. That doesn't mean I won't iron again, or polish my boots because they got dirty.

[davidsinn]

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

[tsrup]

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

Not that I entirely agree with either statement,

But why does having a squared away uniform and being a professional who is good at their job have to be mutually exclusive?

[NCRblues]

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

There is time to be "beauty queens" as you put it, and that time is with dress blues.

In BDU's I make sure my boots look black, and i make sure my BDU's are not "hamper qualed", but I cant spend an hour on a uniform, WIWAD or otherwise. My job was vastly more important than being able to see myself in my work boots...

[Eclipse]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

[NCRblues]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

Very true, but a good majority of my wing is very poor areas. I cant expect those members to shell those expenses out (yes I understand they are normally small).

Judging someone on how well they ironed or shined boots before the Tuesday meeting is not fair to anyone IMHO. If they do good work, and contribute, why should I care if the boots are not parade field shined?

[CJB]

"Dress & Appearance" is assessed on the EPR.  Wearing the uniform right is part of your duty.  The same goes for personal fitness.

You can't make the blanket statement that someone who pays attention to detail on their uniform doesn't display the same work ethic in their job.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Regardless, I just want to know if I should iron the flag and wing patch, because I care enough not to look like a bag of ass.

[AngelWings]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

That works too. I hate people who are like "Arghh, I'm just going to wear this wrinkled uniform, with my grey and black boots, all sloppy, not take care of it, and put no time into making sure it is decent."

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

There is time to be "beauty queens" as you put it, and that time is with dress blues.

In BDU's I make sure my boots look black, and i make sure my BDU's are not "hamper qualed", but I cant spend an hour on a uniform, WIWAD or otherwise. My job was vastly more important than being able to see myself in my work boots...

I am done. I think it is best to agree to disagree here. Davidsinn, you insult me by blowing my comments out of portion and not using the intelligence I came to respect you on this forum to use logic in this case.

[AngelWings]

"Dress & Appearance" is assessed on the EPR.  Wearing the uniform right is part of your duty.  The same goes for personal fitness.

You can't make the blanket statement that someone who pays attention to detail on their uniform doesn't display the same work ethic in their job.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Regardless, I just want to know if I should iron the flag and wing patch, because I care enough not to look like a bag of ass.

If it is a practice in your squadron, then yes. If it isn't, then no  .

[abdsp51]

Appearance and job knowlege are not exclusive however when i was a flt chief it should generally in work ethic and in their qc scores. I'd rather have the person who knows their job and puts forth the effort to present a profesdional appearance than the person with the mirror boots and razor creases whos afraid to get dirty.

[Eclipse]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military, so keeping our uniforms in top shape, including ironing them and occasionally polishing our shoes, etc., isn't going to be onerous.

45 minutes before every meeting?  Silly, but there are people who enjoy the Zen of it.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since
rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

Further, the mindset of attention to detail (which, by the way, is one of the reasons uniforms are so exacting), is something every CAP member needs,
and far too many need to be reminded about.

To the OP:  There is no specification on the crease, so barring a unit SOP or wing supplement, it's your choice.
[opinion]To me, the flags and wing patches on the field uniforms are up too high to crease anyway.  Most cleaners start the crease at about 2-3 inches below the shoulder, because it looks a little weird any higher.[/opinion]

[AngelWings]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military, so keeping our uniforms in top shape, including ironing them and occasionally polishing our shoes, etc., isn't going to be onerous.

45 minutes before every meeting?  Silly, but there are people who enjoy the Zen of it.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since
rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

Further, the mindset of attention to detail (which, by the way, is one of the reasons uniforms are so exacting), is something every CAP member needs,
and far too many need to be reminded about.

To the OP:  There is no specification on the crease, so barring a unit SOP or wing supplement, it's your choice.
[opinion]To me, the flags and wing patches on the field uniforms are up to high to crease anyway.  Most cleaners start the crease at about 2-3 inches below the shoulder, because it looks a little weird any higher.[/opinion]

Seconded. I am the perfectionist mentality person.

[Al Sayre]

Very pretty, General. Very pretty. But, can they fight?

[davidsinn]

Very pretty, General. Very pretty. But, can they fight?

A combat ready division never passed inspection and an inspection ready division never passed combat...

[Buzz]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

How much does she charge for polishing your boots to a mirror shine?

My nearest cleaner when I lived on O'ahu was a 20-minute drive in the opposite direction from ANYWHERE ELSE that I ever went.  Here in Nevada it's only a . . .hmmm . . .20-minute drive in the opposite direction from ANYWHERE ELSE that I ever go . . .

[a2capt]

Heh, and here.. if I drive 20 minutes in any direction except due west, I probably pass 20 cleaners every time.

[Buzz]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military

This will come as a surprise to the folks at Maxwell.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.

I don't carry an iron in my GoBag.

  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

I'll remember that, the next time I spend three days on a SAR without getting home.

[Spaceman3750]

Personally I refuse to have my BBDUs dry cleaned... They get washed and go back in my bug-out bag (giant red duffel of doom?). My aviator shirt goes to the cleaners, and it's about $4, vs the $2 they charge me for regular shirts (I don't wear my aviator very frequently, I'm partial to the polo for routine squadron business).

[a2capt]

... Though conceptual, perhaps one wouldn't be shocked at what is found in a go-bag at some point..

[tsrup]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military

This will come as a surprise to the folks at Maxwell.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.

I don't carry an iron in my GoBag.

  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

I'll remember that, the next time I spend three days on a SAR without getting home.

I don't think anybody reasonably expects your BDUs to look perfect while out in the field.

However, when it comes to weekly meetings, there is no reason for you to look like you just walked out of the field, or from the bottom of a hamper.


The fact is that people are judged on appearance whether you want to accept that or not.  What if I was at a meeting looking like a ragamuffin in BDU's, and a new prospective cadet shows up with his/her retired AF parents?  What kind of assumption do you think they are going to make about our program?

We can talk all we want about how appearances don't matter but that is one instance where looking like a slob can loose it before you even get a chance to prove that you are indeed a committed individual.

So, we can either wear blues for every weekly meeting and save our field uniforms for the field, or we can spend an extra 20-30 minutes a week to make them look presentable and professional.

[Eclipse]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military

This will come as a surprise to the folks at Maxwell.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.

I don't carry an iron in my GoBag.

  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

I'll remember that, the next time I spend three days on a SAR without getting home.

How many uniformed CAP members work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day at NHQ?
And how often are you gone three days on a "SAR"?

The average CAP member wears their uniform a few hours a month, and few do any extended missions where they don't go home at night
or aren't in a hotel (hotels have irons and washing machines).

[Stonewall]

I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes.

I have been fighting this since I could think on my own.

Why is there an option?  People always say I'd rather have someone who can perform in the field (or insert job) over someone that knows how to wear a uniform properly.  I call BS.  I want and demand both.

If you can carry a 60 lbs ruck sack 20 miles but can't wear your uniform correctly, then you're of no use to me.  If you can spit shine your boots but you can't pick up that same ruck sack because you're weak, then you are of no use to me. 

When you can do both, then we'll talk.

[Sapper168]

I have been fighting this since I could think on my own.

Why is there an option?  People always say I'd rather have someone who can perform in the field (or insert job) over someone that knows how to wear a uniform properly.  I call BS.  I want and demand both.

If you can carry a 60 lbs ruck sack 20 miles but can't wear your uniform correctly, then you're of no use to me.  If you can spit shine your boots but you can't pick up that same ruck sack because you're weak, then you are of no use to me. 

When you can do both, then we'll talk.

Totally agree with this.

[CJB]

"Dress & Appearance" is assessed on the EPR.  Wearing the uniform right is part of your duty.  The same goes for personal fitness.

You can't make the blanket statement that someone who pays attention to detail on their uniform doesn't display the same work ethic in their job.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Regardless, I just want to know if I should iron the flag and wing patch, because I care enough not to look like a bag of ass.

If it is a practice in your squadron, then yes. If it isn't, then no  .

This is a practice in the Air Force.  CAP has been afforded the privilege of wearing the same uniform as the Air Force.  Therefore, everyone must accept the responsibility of adhering to the same standards of dress & appearance, per CAP policy.

[Stonewall]

This is a practice in the Air Force.  CAP has been afforded the privilege of wearing the same uniform as the Air Force.  Therefore, everyone must accept the responsibility of adhering to the same standards of dress & appearance, per CAP policy.

As of 1 NOV 11 CAP no longer wears the same utility uniform as the Air Force.  The Air Force doesn't wear American flags on their BDU/ABUs anyway.  On multi-cams, you may wear a velcro flag on your sleeve but then multi-cams aren't ironed, nor are ABUs for that matter.  Not to mention, if you did happen to wear a flag on your right sleeve on your battle uniform, it would be in a deployed location where no one would/should be ironing or creasing their sleeves anyway.

And FWIW, I think the flag on the CAP BDUs is silly.  But that is (and has been) another debate.

[AngelWings]

I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes.

I have been fighting this since I could think on my own.

Why is there an option?  People always say I'd rather have someone who can perform in the field (or insert job) over someone that knows how to wear a uniform properly.  I call BS.  I want and demand both.

If you can carry a 60 lbs ruck sack 20 miles but can't wear your uniform correctly, then you're of no use to me.  If you can spit shine your boots but you can't pick up that same ruck sack because you're weak, then you are of no use to me. 

When you can do both, then we'll talk.

That right there is the best comment I've seen on this thread. I'm happy I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

[lordmonar]

There is no reason to demand both.

But a lot of times in CAP....with cadets I see an inappropriate amount of time devoted to the uniform and spit shine and not what is really important.

I see that as our (the CP leaders) fault.....and I correct it as necessary.

When one of my cadets shows me his spit shined shoes and razor creased short sleeve shirt and tells me how many hours he spent on them.  I congradulate him....good job.....then immediatly ask him what he scored on his last leadership or AE test.  I ask him if his element/flight mates are all squared away.  I ask him where he stands on his SDA's.

Wearing the uniform properly and going the extra mile are all well and good....but not at the expense of the other things they need to do as a cadet.

[tsrup]

There is no reason to demand both.

But a lot of times in CAP....with cadets I see an inappropriate amount of time devoted to the uniform and spit shine and not what is really important.

I see that as our (the CP leaders) fault.....and I correct it as necessary.

When one of my cadets shows me his spit shined shoes and razor creased short sleeve shirt and tells me how many hours he spent on them.  I congradulate him....good job.....then immediatly ask him what he scored on his last leadership or AE test.  I ask him if his element/flight mates are all squared away.  I ask him where he stands on his SDA's.

Wearing the uniform properly and going the extra mile are all well and good....but not at the expense of the other things they need to do as a cadet.

And I will always demand that my cadets excel at both.  It's part of setting the bar high.  It is never as cut and dry as those who polish their boots suck at tests, and those who are good at the mission wear sloppy uniforms.
Exceptional people find a way to meet and exceed the standards that are set for them.

I know where CAP ranks on the list when it comes down to priorities (school, work, family, etc..), but there is no reason that 20 minutes cant be spent on a uniform, and the tests aren't that hard, especially since we teach the material at the meetings and provide mentors for those who don't quite understand it.

Cadet does great on a test?  Fine, what kind of example are they setting if they look like he crawled out the bottom of his closet. 
Cadet has a great uniform?  Fine, How did they test?

Cadet has both?  That is my new cadet (enter staff position here).

[Stonewall]

There is no reason to demand both.

I see this and the first thought that comes to mind is "typical Air Force mind-set".  Truth is, it's probably more of a typical American mind-set.  To me, it goes along with "no one loses" in sports these days.

[Hawk200]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

Of course, I'd go back to the shop, relate my story, and most of us would have a laugh at your expense.

Some of us ended up with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots because we were working. Thankfully, the one writing my EPR would know that, and wouldn't dock my EPR for doing my job.

[Eclipse]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

[PHall]

Just joined and I came here to find the answer.  Looks like there really isn't one.

You can cite that the BDU is a "utility" uniform, but that doesn't mean we don't get them gussied up for inspections.  The permanent press ABU with suede boots was introduced to be more practical.  Before the ABU, Airmen spent hours starching and pressing the BDU and polishing boots, regardless of the fact that the BDU was originally intended to be a wash and wear uniform.  I knew guys that had the crease stitched into their SNCO stripes.  The same goes for blues; you wanted a razor sharp crease right through the chevrons.  Now that I'm wearing patches that go right where a crease should be, I can only assume that the BDU should be pressed as usual.

Also, when the ABU was introduced, it was directed that an iron should never touch the new uniform.  So, if you see someone with creased chevrons, you know they're breaking the rule.  That policy is also unclear.

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Gee, let me guess. A career Admin troop. Has never worked outside of a cubicle...

[jimmydeanno]

Just joined and I came here to find the answer.  Looks like there really isn't one.

You can cite that the BDU is a "utility" uniform, but that doesn't mean we don't get them gussied up for inspections.  The permanent press ABU with suede boots was introduced to be more practical.  Before the ABU, Airmen spent hours starching and pressing the BDU and polishing boots, regardless of the fact that the BDU was originally intended to be a wash and wear uniform.  I knew guys that had the crease stitched into their SNCO stripes.  The same goes for blues; you wanted a razor sharp crease right through the chevrons.  Now that I'm wearing patches that go right where a crease should be, I can only assume that the BDU should be pressed as usual.

Also, when the ABU was introduced, it was directed that an iron should never touch the new uniform.  So, if you see someone with creased chevrons, you know they're breaking the rule.  That policy is also unclear.

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Gee, let me guess. A career Admin troop. Has never worked outside of a cubicle...

Yeah, and NCOs are the ones who "work for a living."   

[AngelWings]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

Hit the head on the nail. It is only an excuse so people can be lazy.

[Spaceman3750]

Where's SarDragon and his clock when you need him...

[SarDragon]

[SarDragon]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

Hit the head on the nail. It is only an excuse so people can be lazy.

Somehow, I don't think you have the necessary experience in the right places to be making that statement.

[lordmonar]

There is no reason to demand both.

I see this and the first thought that comes to mind is "typical Air Force mind-set".  Truth is, it's probably more of a typical American mind-set.  To me, it goes along with "no one loses" in sports these days.

You know...though....I meant to say....that there is no reason NOT to demand both.

But all the rest still applies.  You meet the standards.  I demand that you do....all of the standards....I see a lot of people in the USAF, CAP or even in the "real" world who focus all their attention on to just one side of the standards.  The spend so much time exceeding one standard that they only become marginal on the others.

So....I try to redirect their attention to all the standards.

[lordmonar]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

Let me tell you a story....one of those horror stories.....and this one is very true.

We just came off a job....pulling some aerial cable and doing on the pole terminations for the base cable television system.  We were just finishing up the paperwork and putting away the tools when in walks the wing commander.  We all gather round and he is meeting and greeting everyone.....when right there in front of God and all us airman....he places his highlty shined (looked like leather luster) jump boot...between the toes of my supervisor and said "My boots are shineyer then yours"....and then he walked out.

I learned leadership from that man......How not to make youself look like a FPOC!

It does not take long to take care of you uniform.  Hang it up as soon as you get home, wash it when it needs it, run the kiwi over the boots everyday.

That is the standard......follow it.  If you want to impress me with how hard school you are with your creases and spit shines?  Make sure you are good to go on your leadership, AE, and PT tests.  Make sure you have met all your suspenses and show me some leadership and help your flight mates get their act together.  That goes a whole lot farther in my book then boasting on how you spent hours getting your boots just right.

[Hawk200]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

You just made an assumption that I show up to work that way. Never did. I did however get regular comments from those people in offices/hospital/cubicle farms about how dirty my uniform was right after crawling through their ceiling or under their floor to run their phone line. It's part of the reason why maintainers and office types don't get along. At least the SEA was a former maintainer, and didn't give us grief about working for a living.

A dirty uniform at 1530 was the sign that you worked. Too many fixate on having a perfect uniform all day. I remember one guy who had some issues because he would get a little dirt, go home and change at lunch for even the slightest thing on his uniform. This would happen a couple times a week. He was usually late back from lunch, and he tried to avoid work so he could stay clean. That's unrealistic, but he had that mindset because it was drilled into his head at tech school. That fixation caused problems, especially when he tried to defend it with "I look professional!" When the way you defend it comes across as superior, then you've lost.

You don't need glass shines on boots (a consistent issue with cadets), and your uniform doesn't need to stand up by itself. Iron it, a little polish, and you're good to go.

As to the orginal post, I wouldn't crease a flag patch, or a wing patch either. Do it too much, and the border starts coming loose. That looks bad. Part of professionalism is not destroying your uniform to look pretty.

[AngelWings]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

Hit the head on the nail. It is only an excuse so people can be lazy.

Somehow, I don't think you have the necessary experience in the right places to be making that statement.

I have been covered in mud my fair share, have twice been partially covered in rust, have had been head to toe covered in dust, and once had some leftover fuel in a improperly closed gascan spill on me a bit. I have had periods recently when I have to prepare two uniforms in 30 minutes or less after I was done with everything for the night. I can't say I have been covered in oil, grease, blood, or other things. I can't say I have, for a week, been so strapped on time I couldn't even iron a uniform for all of 15 minutes when I went home I was that busy. I can however, from experiences with multiple airmen, soldiers, marines, and sailor, that they all told me (if they were not deployed) that they could find a time to make themselves look professional and well kept. They didn't have mirror shined boots, but they were well kept and polished, they didn't have extreme creases, but they could be seen. One of my acquaintances showed me a photo of them after they were done with work, and they looked horrible, but that is a days work (particular person was aircraft maintence). It didn't matter to anyone I asked if they were going to get covered or not, they did it anyways. It'd be hard to argue with what multiple people say over one mans experience. I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

[AngelWings]

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

Tell me that after I crawl through a ceiling to run your phone line, and the best response you'd get would be "Understood."

There's a difference between showing up at 0-dark looking like you just rolled out of bed, and having a hard day's work reflected on
your clothing at the end of the day.

I don't get how having a job that gets you dirty sometimes is an excuse for looking unprofessional the rest of the time.

You just made an assumption that I show up to work that way. Never did. I did however get regular comments from those people in offices/hospital/cubicle farms about how dirty my uniform was right after crawling through their ceiling or under their floor to run their phone line. It's part of the reason why maintainers and office types don't get along. At least the SEA was a former maintainer, and didn't give us grief about working for a living.

A dirty uniform at 1530 was the sign that you worked. Too many fixate on having a perfect uniform all day. I remember one guy who had some issues because he would get a little dirt, go home and change at lunch for even the slightest thing on his uniform. This would happen a couple times a week. He was usually late back from lunch, and he tried to avoid work so he could stay clean. That's unrealistic, but he had that mindset because it was drilled into his head at tech school. That fixation caused problems, especially when he tried to defend it with "I look professional!" When the way you defend it comes across as superior, then you've lost.

You don't need glass shines on boots (a consistent issue with cadets), and your uniform doesn't need to stand up by itself. Iron it, a little polish, and you're good to go.

As to the orginal post, I wouldn't crease a flag patch, or a wing patch either. Do it too much, and the border starts coming loose. That looks bad. Part of professionalism is not destroying your uniform to look pretty.

Great points, and I am sorry you had to deal with the unappreciative and ignorant comments of fools who you just helped out.

[NCRblues]

I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

Yes, several times. One of the most memorable one was when the Fort Hood shooting was ongoing and my base was locked down, and all the rest of that week when we were in FPCON C....

So, yup..

[Hawk200]

Great points, and I am sorry you had to deal with the unappreciative and ignorant comments of fools who you just helped out.

I think you're the only person to ever say anything to that effect to me. It is appreciated. Many of the ignorant ones have the idea that I showed up to work that way. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[SarDragon]

I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

Iron - yes. Boots - usually, no. However, dust wasn't usually a problem. It was the aircraft fluids that made my boots ugly.

[AngelWings]

I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

Yes, several times. One of the most memorable one was when the Fort Hood shooting was ongoing and my base was locked down, and all the rest of that week when we were in FPCON C....

So, yup..

What service were/are you in? If it was the Army, weren't you guys in ACU's?

[PHall]

I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

Yes, several times. One of the most memorable one was when the Fort Hood shooting was ongoing and my base was locked down, and all the rest of that week when we were in FPCON C....

So, yup..

What service were/are you in? If it was the Army, weren't you guys in ACU's?

Littleguy, when was the last day you could wear BDU's in the Army? A little research will give you an answer.

Uniform changes don't happen overnight...

[AngelWings]

I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

Yes, several times. One of the most memorable one was when the Fort Hood shooting was ongoing and my base was locked down, and all the rest of that week when we were in FPCON C....

So, yup..

What service were/are you in? If it was the Army, weren't you guys in ACU's?

Littleguy, when was the last day you could wear BDU's in the Army? A little research will give you an answer.

Uniform changes don't happen overnight...

BDU phase out date for the Army, April 30th, 2008. Fort Hood shooting, November 5th, 2009. I've collected uniforms since I was 13, and have been familiar with what the military does with their uniforms since around 2000. How about letting the person I was asking answer my question instead of trying to make an invalid point for something you didn't research yourself.

[NCRblues]

I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

Yes, several times. One of the most memorable one was when the Fort Hood shooting was ongoing and my base was locked down, and all the rest of that week when we were in FPCON C....

So, yup..

What service were/are you in? If it was the Army, weren't you guys in ACU's?

USAF-509th Bomb Wing, 39th Air base wing (that is the wing I was at during the fort hood incident) and the 332nd EMG.

All military installations share a common D.O.D. wide alert reporting system. They are unclassified, up channeled, alerting messages concerning possible hostile action or actual hostile action on a military base (helping hand/covered wagon). It does not matter if it's Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine.

When bad things happen at one base, all the rest take notice and change procedures to make sure it is not an attempted mass attack on military areas.

[AngelWings]

I have to ask, for my general knowledge, were you ever (in the states, not on deployment/TDY) so strapped for time in your week that you couldn't use 20 minutes at most to pick up an iron and quickly go over your uniform, and dust off your boots?

Yes, several times. One of the most memorable one was when the Fort Hood shooting was ongoing and my base was locked down, and all the rest of that week when we were in FPCON C....

So, yup..

What service were/are you in? If it was the Army, weren't you guys in ACU's?

USAF-509th Bomb Wing, 39th Air base wing (that is the wing I was at during the fort hood incident) and the 332nd EMG.

All military installations share a common D.O.D. wide alert reporting system. They are unclassified, up channeled, alerting messages concerning possible hostile action or actual hostile action on a military base (helping hand/covered wagon). It does not matter if it's Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine.

When bad things happen at one base, all the rest take notice and change procedures to make sure it is not an attempted mass attack on military areas.

OK, thank you. Makes more sense now  . I can see how in a situation like that how you couldn't get to an iron.