American Flag Patch. Creased or not?

[ELMO]

I have noticed that many people will crease the American flag patch on their BDUs. In my opinion it shouldn't be creased at all. But is there a manual for this type of thing or is it just do whatever you feel is right? I want to hear some opinions.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

No crease in patches.
The 39-1 says nothing about whether or not to crease patches, but I don't crease either the American Flag, nor do I crease the wing patch.

[DC]

I've never bothered, but I don't crease the sleeves of my BDUs either. I press them, but creasing is going too far for a uniform that I wear when I am expecting to be working and possibly get dirty.

[ELMO]

Then why does the Manual specify where The creases shouldnt be? If there is a place where they shouldn't be then they should be somewhere. No? I mean for the past 3 years that I've been in CAP I've always wondered how even at encampment they specify that the crease should line up with the crease if the BDUs and in the center of the epaulets for blues. How did they come up with it? It doesn't just come out of thin air does it?

[DC]

Then why does the Manual specify where The creases shouldnt be? If there is a place where they shouldn't be then they should be somewhere. No? I mean for the past 3 years that I've been in CAP I've always wondered how even at encampment they specify that the crease should line up with the crease if the BDUs and in the center of the epaulets for blues. How did they come up with it? It doesn't just come out of thin air does it?

The requirement to crease the the sleeves of the blues shirt from the center of the epauletcomes from when wing patches were worn with blues. It looked really strange if the patch was not creased straight down the middle, and on blues you are without a doubt required to crease the sleeve.

[SarDragon]

Just say no. There is no reason to crease flags or patches. They look goofy, and it wears out the patch or flag that much sooner.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

There are a few reasons not to crease patches, some think it is disrespectful to what the patch represents, it does wear out the patch really fast, and if it has a point where it is creased, it will cause it to fray really fast.

The best way to crease your sleeve is to fold the patch in half with your hand and then iron the sleeve, if your patch looks like it has been folded, then just iron it flat again.

[Shotgun]

I thought I remembered reading something about creasing BDU's -

Did some research and found the following:

Table 2-3  CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual 23 Mar 2005

Table 2-3. Men's and Women's Battle Dress Uniforms 1 Shirt (Long Sleeve) Cotton and nylon twill or rip stop cotton; single-breasted with four bellow pockets with flaps; straight-cut bottom sleeve tabs, and side body panels with or without take-up tabs. Long sleeve camouflage pattern (woodland green) may be rolled up; if rolled up, sleeve material must match shirt and will touch or come within 1 inch of forearms when arm is bent at a 90-degree angle; may be removed in the immediate work area. When removed, T-shirt (other than athletic or sleeveless style) will be worn. Military creases are prohibited.

There is also an entry in the CAP knowledge base regarding this.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Table 2-3  CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual 23 Mar 2005

Military creases are prohibited.

There is also an entry in the CAP knowledge base regarding this.

Yes, this has been hashed and rehashed. Military creases are only done my the Marine Corps. Military creases are on the chest going all the way from the top of the shirt to the bottom (2), and on the back there are three. Military creases has nothing to do with the sleeves, otherwise we wouldn't be able to crease the sleeves of the blues shirts either.

[SarDragon]

Once again, we're NOT talking about military creases here.

Military creases are vertical creases down the front and back of a shirt (five in all - two front and three back) that have not been a part of CAP culture for many years.

[Eclipse]

These shirts have permanent military creases:

[s.imbriale]

In regards to creasing the sleeves on the BDU and also the patches themselves:

It is basically optional. There is nothing in 39-1 that prohibits it, but there also isnt anything that specifies it. Some would say that means dont do it, and if you decide not to you could use the before mentioned argument that "it's not in the regs".

However, a lot of Air Force enlisted do it and they often times put the crease right through there rank chevrons. However, they dont wear an American Flag on there sleeves. I agree that 1) It does damage the patches and 2) it may be viewed as disrespectful. I also agree that if you DO crease the sleeves, it can look sloppy to have the top portion where the patch is not creased. 

It's also interesting to note that on the ABU, creases are already permanently part of the uniform - both bottoms and tops. 

In my humble opinion, it all comes down to personal preference. Maybe it can even be designated on the unit level. I'm navy, so I dont know the AF regs, but maybe some duel AF-CAP personnel can post their opinion. Is it in any AF reg?  Maybe the Chief of Staff of Alaska Wing!  Thanks all.

[Shotgun]

Once again, we're NOT talking about military creases here.

Military creases are vertical creases down the front and back of a shirt (five in all - two front and three back) that have not been a part of CAP culture for many years.

Awesome!  Thanks for clarifying!  The whole concept makes sense now.

I stand enlightened and corrected!

[jimmydeanno]

On my BDUs I not only crease the wing patch, but *gasp* the American Flag patch, too.  It doesn't look like poo because I don't go crazy on the crease.  I've had the same patches on my BDUs since the American Flag requirement came out and there isn't any fraying, premature wear issues, discoloration, fading, etc.  It's been, what, 6 years now?  And I'm very active, wearing it around 15 hours per week, multiple encampments, SAREXs, local events, etc.  The average CAP member *might* wear their BDUs 5-7 hours per month.  Even if you wear it 15 hours per month you still aren't putting anywhere near normal use on it. 

Creasing the American Flag patch isn't disrespectful and it certainly doesn't affect how American anyone is or how much Patriotism they have.  It also is not against our uniform manual.  Either way, I don't care if someone does, or doesn't - as long as their uniform looks presentable and in good repair.

[majdomke]

To me it's disrespectful to touch the American flag with an iron that could possibly burn or damage the material. It is expressly told to our cadets the same. You certainly could make it a local unit reg. In all my dealing with people across the California Wing, I can't recall but about one or two people I've seen do it. Certainly not widespread but perhaps worthy of addition to the next 39-1 so its "official".

[manfredvonrichthofen]

To me it's disrespectful to touch the American flag with an iron that could possibly burn or damage the material. It is expressly told to our cadets the same. You certainly could make it a local unit reg. In all my dealing with people across the California Wing, I can't recall but about one or two people I've seen do it. Certainly not widespread but perhaps worthy of addition to the next 39-1 so its "official".

:clap:

[Ned]

To me it's disrespectful to touch the American flag with an iron that could possibly burn or damage the material.

I'd never heard that before.  Even after 20+ years as an Army guy and 40+ years in CAP.

Heck, we used to iron the unit colors yearly before inspections.  How else does one smooth a wrinkled American flag?  And when we got a new flag, it came folded rather tightly, and had some serious wrinkles remaining after we unfolded it.  Is it better to display colors with severe wrinkles than to simply iron it?

Would it be wrong to repair a simple seam separation with a sewing machine?

It is expressly told to our cadets the same.

Did you mean that it is in a pamphlet or regulation somewhere or that that is what you tell your cadets based on local tradition?

[majdomke]

I'd never heard that before.  Even after 20+ years as an Army guy and 40+ years in CAP.

Of course you've never heard it before Ned, it was my opinion I was expressing. I here it echoed all the time when I discuss with other leaders.

[wacapgh]

WIWOAD the Battalion Sergeant Major kept it simple:

"This is a COMBAT uniform. You're supposed to look like you were shot with a wrinkle gun! I'll Article 15 the [4th point of contact] of anyone who even thinks about using an Iron..."

No good thing ever survives the relentless attrition of the Pouge's, REMF's, and Fobbitt's.

Remember back in the 70's when the "big thing" was to have your fatigues custom embroidered - name, rank, badges, etc. actually sewn INTO the shirt, no backing material or tapes. The Cav Store was laughing all the way to the bank.

[majdomke]

Did you mean that it is in a pamphlet or regulation somewhere or that that is what you tell your cadets based on local tradition?

This would be a squadron regulation