AM I a wannbee???????

[flyguy06]

Am I a wannbee because I choose to wear the military style uniforms as opposed to the blue golf shirt or CAP distinctive uniform? and because I want to be addressed by my rank?

[Eclipse]

No, you are a CAP member acting properly.

[Flying Pig]

I wear the AF uniform.  Most of the time, with my ribbons.  I dont go over board with wanting to be addressed by my rank however I dont discourage it by any means.  What I do insist on in my unit is that when Seniors are around cadets, we are formal.  However, when the seniors are together, we do not expect to be addressed formally.  You are a Lt., Capt. Major etc in CAP, so you are not a 'wannabe" by wanting to be addressed as such. 
I think what can sometimes happen is when some members assume someone is in CAP because you couldnt handle the "real" military so you are getting you kicks off of a CAP title.  However, in your case your a little different because you are also an Army Infantry officer outside of CAP. 
I know at work, I address the Captain as Captain and the Sgt as Sgt!
With non-CAP members, ie. parents, I introduce myself by my first name.  Just my choice, however, I have parents with a military past who, on their own, address me as Captain.

I see nothing wrong with CAP members addressing each other by their ranks.

[Fireball]

I wannabee...

a better citizen, so I VOLUNTEER.

a better CAP officer, so I stay current with regs and study leadership.

a better role model, so I stay in shape and wear my uniforms properly.

able to make a difference in the short time I am granted on this earth.

I AM A WANNABE!

[Chicago_Pilot]

I wannabee...

a better citizen, so I VOLUNTEER.

a better CAP officer, so I stay current with regs and study leadership.

a better role model, so I stay in shape and wear my uniforms properly.

able to make a difference in the short time I am granted on this earth.

I AM A WANNABE!

Agree.  I just wannabee a good CAP member.  If I wanted to join the RM, I would.

[lordmonar]

I wannabee...

a better citizen, so I VOLUNTEER.

a better CAP officer, so I stay current with regs and study leadership.

a better role model, so I stay in shape and wear my uniforms properly.

able to make a difference in the short time I am granted on this earth.

I AM A WANNABE!

+2

Nicely said.

[flyguy06]

Thanks. I just read a comment by someone else onthis board and it got me to wondering.

[Major Carrales]

I, too, have been called a "wannabe" by people on this and other forums for the same reasons you cite in you thread.  That anyone would make such a comment to you here reflects that idea that I rail against...the "self-loathing of CAP."

There are some here who cannot accept that CAP is what it is and that we need not apologize for it.

Again...be more proud of what we are than ashamed of what we are not.

Oh, and don't fret anyone, we will weed out those few that disgrace us all by exercising the behaviors that are very unbecoming...such as demanding salutes of active duty, disingenuously carrying  "swagger sticks" and throwing weight around.

[Eclipse]

Oh, and don't fret anyone, we will weed out those few that disgrace us all by exercising the behaviors that are very unbecoming...such as demanding salutes of active duty, disingenuously carrying  "swagger sticks" and throwing weight around.

Yeah, Styles would have made a great CAP pilot!   

[Nick]

That was perfect, Bob.

[Major Carrales]

Oh, and don't fret anyone, we will weed out those few that disgrace us all by exercising the behaviors that are very unbecoming...such as demanding salutes of active duty, disingenuously carrying  "swagger sticks" and throwing weight around.

Yeah, Styles would have made a great CAP pilot!   

Ah...trying to break the Enterprise's Speed records...eh?  Honestly, I often wonder what happened to Styles in Star Trek canon?  I suspect he became some sort of Admiral working in a less than stellar office.

I am also reminded of Chekov.  He was first officer of the USS Reliant when Khan took over. Seems like his career stalled after that, I don't believe he ever made Captain.

To bring this back into the fray of the topic.  What do you suppose happens to CAP Officers who are "paragons" of CAP virtue and get called wannabes? I mean, we all espouse proper uniform wear, professional demeanor and sprit d'corps...but when those that live it are chastised for it with this insult?

It makes me question some people on this board and what they really want. 

[lordmonar]

We revel in it!

Call me a wannabe....just like I love to be called a Trekkie!

Back when I was 2....I learned "sticks and stones can break my bones...but names will never hurt me".

I also learned the phrase "If the shoe fits...wear it".

Both of these apply.

Are there some who are too tied up with the USAFAUX aspect of our ogranisation....sure there are.....just about as many who are too tied up with the "aero club" aspect of our organisation. 

It takes a village....that is it takes all sorts of people to work together to make this thing we call CAP work.

The key is that we should all be leaders and use what we got to get the mission done.

[Larry Mangum]

It takes a village....that is it takes all sorts of people to work together to make this thing we call CAP work.

And like every village we have our idiots!

And I am not taking a shot at Lord Monar, just continuing his statement.

[RADIOMAN015]

Am I a wannbee because I choose to wear the military style uniforms as opposed to the blue golf shirt or CAP distinctive uniform? and because I want to be addressed by my rank?

Wearing the military style uniforms require a relatively significant outlay of funds to do it right.  Many members lack the proper outwearer (coats) for these type of uniforms.   Compliance as far as proper haircut, weight standards, & even hat wear vary greatly.
As far as as being addressed by your rank, fine when involved with cadets & with others involved in a formal type gathering.   Unlikely to make you popular with other senior members if this insistence carries over to informal times.

Please remember we are CIVIL Air Patrol.  You aren't in the military.  Don't let your rank go to your head .   Perhaps it's just my experience,  but it seems that I find that there's more "goof balls"  wearing the AF style uniforms,  versus the corporate type options. 
RM 

[jimmydeanno]

I must be missing something.

I swear the only place I ever hear this type of talk is here.  I've been doing CAP now for nearly 13 years and have yet to be met with disdain or accusations of being a wannabe. 

Prior military members that bring their children to us to be cadets seem to be supportive of what we/I do.

Parents that have no association with the military seem to be supportive of what we/I do.

My family has no issues.

We meet on an Air Guard Base and get invited to all the base events.  The Guard members on base actively pursue helping us and inviting us to things.  We even hold a model rocketry day for the Guard dependents.

My last unit, same thing.  No disdain, no wannabe accusations - just a mutual respect.

Maybe its just the people I work with in CAP. I've never had to have any of these discussions with anyone, except here.

[Hawk200]

I'm not sure I've ever been called a "wannabe". I've seen more than a few cases here, but I don't know if it's ever been directed at me.

I think of some of the "wannabe's" here show cases of using military terminology that's not in our pubs or doesn't apply. It would be one thing if the member is current or former military and uses terminology out of habit because they don't know what we call it yet. It's another thing entirely when it's people calling things and procedures by terms we don't use.

I wear the military type uniforms because I've got loads of them that were issued to me. I've got them, it would be wasteful for me not to use them. I wear them properly; I expect the same of others; and to that end I set a proper example.

I don't expect CAP members to act with the same amount of military bearing that I do. I've got 20 plus years of the habits, and they show when I'm not even wearing the uniform. I do expect fellow CAP members to act like professionals, which is simply acting in a civilized manner. Screaming, yelling, loud conversation for the sake of attention is inappropriate in any setting.

As to rank, I don't bother, I introduce myself by name. My rank is either on my collar or my shoulder, so it's not like I have to tell someone. To a CAP member it's obvious, to a non member it probably doesn't even matter. I have always been amused by those in the military that introduce themselves by rank and then name. It's not like I can't tell their rank.

[Nick]

We meet on an Air Guard Base and get invited to all the base events.  The Guard members on base actively pursue helping us and inviting us to things.  We even hold a model rocketry day for the Guard dependents.

That is outstanding. I wish I saw a lot more active duty/guard/reserve interaction with tenant CAP units than I do.  I spent about 7 years in the CAP squadron at Lackland and saw near-zero interaction.

[flyguy06]

Am I a wannbee because I choose to wear the military style uniforms as opposed to the blue golf shirt or CAP distinctive uniform? and because I want to be addressed by my rank?

Wearing the military style uniforms require a relatively significant outlay of funds to do it right.  Many members lack the proper outwearer (coats) for these type of uniforms.   Compliance as far as proper haircut, weight standards, & even hat wear vary greatly.
As far as as being addressed by your rank, fine when involved with cadets & with others involved in a formal type gathering.   Unlikely to make you popular with other senior members if this insistence carries over to informal times.

Please remember we are CIVIL Air Patrol.  You aren't in the military.  Don't let your rank go to your head .   Perhaps it's just my experience,  but it seems that I find that there's more "goof balls"  wearing the AF style uniforms,  versus the corporate type options. 
RM

Why do people keep saying we should only address each other by rank ONLY when in thepressence of cadets? WHy not in the pressence of only senior members or at meetings? Again, I point to the state defense force who are ALL adult volunteers they do. I point the CG Aux who are all adult volunteers. They do it. I understand that we are civilians ( well you guys are) but we are professional. So because we are civilians should I shirk my responsibility of getting a flight release when I fly or since we are civilians should I ignore the regs that say I cant take a plane out of state without permission? We have rules and regs in our organization and I havent seen one that says to ONLY address each by proper rank when inthe pressence of cadets

Now of course I dont mean to say that if I see you in the mall on a weekd ay in civvies that I ned to salute you or cal you by your rank. Dont take it that far but If youdid outrannk me and I saw you outside of a CAP environment I would call you sir/ma'am. And I probably would not address you by your first name.  if Isaw my Wing Commander in the mall off duty I would still treat him with proper respect. Heck I talk to my former wing Commander and I still address him as COL so and so

We arent in the military but we are in a miitary auxillary.

This is a the mindset of a lot of our members whichis why I say we need a formal basic trainng program for new senior members. Right now all we have is a computer based level one that all you have to do is read and answer some questions. there is no practical evaluation process or standardized training. We need that.

[Ned]

we need a formal basic trainng program for new senior members. Right now all we have is a computer based level one that all you have to do is read and answer some questions. there is no practical evaluation process or standardized training. We need that.

Could you expand on what your are hoping for here?

I assume you are not talking about some sort of mandatory Annual Training / OCS like the ACA performs, but something a little more local and portable.

[vento]

Am I a wannbee because I choose to wear the military style uniforms as opposed to the blue golf shirt or CAP distinctive uniform? and because I want to be addressed by my rank?

Wearing the military style uniforms require a relatively significant outlay of funds to do it right.  Many members lack the proper outwearer (coats) for these type of uniforms.   Compliance as far as proper haircut, weight standards, & even hat wear vary greatly.
As far as as being addressed by your rank, fine when involved with cadets & with others involved in a formal type gathering.   Unlikely to make you popular with other senior members if this insistence carries over to informal times.

Please remember we are CIVIL Air Patrol.  You aren't in the military.  Don't let your rank go to your head .   Perhaps it's just my experience,  but it seems that I find that there's more "goof balls"  wearing the AF style uniforms,  versus the corporate type options. 
RM

We arent in the military but we are in a miitary auxillary.

This is a the mindset of a lot of our members whichis why I say we need a formal basic trainng program for new senior members. Right now all we have is a computer based level one that all you have to do is read and answer some questions. there is no practical evaluation process or standardized training. We need that.

We are the USAF Aux when performing missions under a USAF assigned mission number.  We are the CAP Corp when we do everything else.

Having knowledge and understanding of this publication is good enough for Senior Members to act professionally.  http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P151_9028588D89DD2.pdf

[MIKE]

flyguy06, you need to put things in perspective of what CAP actually is to many members before you get all bent out of shape over titles of address... least you be labeled as the title of this thread would suggest.

Also, I beg to differ about your assertion about the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary.  The one possible exception being commodores as far as titles are concerned.

[SarDragon]

It appears that your little Army microcosm differs wildly from the rest of the world.

I have spent almost my entire life in close proximity to the military. I have first hand experience in the social customs of the Navy (dependent and active duty), USAF (stationed on an air base for three years), and the Marine Corps (stationed on one of their bases for three years, and currently attend functions on one every so often). I have a number of officer friends from all three of these services. The customs and courtesies I see are very similar to what I have seen in CAP since my cadet days.

Do you require all cadets to address you formally when you see them in a civilian clothes environment? I, and many other SMs I know, selectively permit the use of reduced formality when a particular cadet has shown the ability to maintain the distinctions noted above. It's all in knowing where and when.

The basic idea I see is that there is a time and a place for each level of compliance.There is also a need for the junior folks to understand the "system".

Speaking of the officers for the moment, I have seen mostly first names on "home turf". Outside that environment, salutes and formal forms of address are exchanged more regularly as the occurrence of "strangers" increases, or the formality of the occasion demands.

Among just enlisteds, I actually see more day-to-day formality than I see among officers. That goes for all the services mentioned above. It's a part of the professional attitude you speak of.

In an officer-enlisted mix, things get more complex. In uniform "at work", it goes pretty much by the rules - salutes and proper forms of address are the norm. Out of uniform, or in social situations in uniform, the rules can get bent a little, at the convenience of the senior. I have been accorded the privilege of addressing officers by their first names in a number of instances, because they know that I know "the rules", and can differentiate between the various situations.

Leading all this back to CAP, the senior-cadet mix is the most critical situation, because they need to learn and use all the rules, before they learn the selective enforcement situations. Beyond that, it's whatever the traffic will bear, as long as the underlying principles are maintained.

From where I sit, I don't see anything broken on a wide spread basis in CAP. There may be individual pockets of significant noncompliance, but those should be corrected locally.

YMMV.

[RiverAux]

I don't think I've ever heard a "wannabe" charge in real life in reference to seniors.  In reference to cadets trying to act like Full Metal Jacket, that has been a topic of discussion. 

I have heard the term "secret squirrel" used derisively quite often in my real CAP life. 

I do fall in the camp that doesn't care about their motivation so long as their actions are in accordance with what we expect, or should expect, of CAP members. 

[Eclipse]

We are the USAF Aux when performing missions under a USAF assigned mission number.  We are the CAP Corp when we do everything else.

Which is administrivia in relation to insurance coverage and maybe Posse Comitatus status.  Otherwise, nothing else changes, and certainly not our uniforms or terms of address.

If you're leaning on the mission symbol for an excuse to be lax in your bearing, appearance, or professionalism, you're not doing it right.

[aveighter]

I wannbee wannabee a spell-check user so my atrocious spelling and syntax doesn't  obliterate my ability to communicate effectively.

[RRLE]

I point the CG Aux who are all adult volunteers.

You would be wrong most of the time. Only District Commodores, the equivalent of your Wing King, and higher are addressed with a title before their name. And there is no penalty for not doing so. All other elected and appointed leaders are addressed by first name.

[vento]

We are the USAF Aux when performing missions under a USAF assigned mission number.  We are the CAP Corp when we do everything else.

Which is administrivia in relation to insurance coverage and maybe Posse Comitatus status.  Otherwise, nothing else changes, and certainly not our uniforms or terms of address.

If you're leaning on the mission symbol for an excuse to be lax in your bearing, appearance, or professionalism, you're not doing it right.

You will not get any argument from me here, I agree with your statement 100% and that's why I've referenced the "Respect on Display" pamphlet.

The point I was trying to make is that we are not always USAF AUX as some tend to think we are at all times, we may have started that way but our mission (or customer) has since changed. For example when performing some CD missions in California, we are definitely not working as USAF AUX. We do what we do and address our officers the way we do because we are the "Civil Air Patrol", not merely because we are the USAF AUX. And please don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for the service man and woman in the RM.

[Eclipse]

I point the CG Aux who are all adult volunteers.

You would be wrong most of the time. Only District Commodores, the equivalent of your Wing King, and higher are addressed with a title before their name. And there is no penalty for not doing so. All other elected and appointed leaders are addressed by first name.

Is your "Quote" button broken?

It seems to work ok for the rest of us...

[Fubar]

I have heard the term "secret squirrel" used derisively quite often in my real CAP life.

This is frequently thrown around at my local GA airport. Apparently a number of folks have tried to strike up conversations with CAP members before/after missions and the crews refuse to provide any information about what they're up to, even when on training missions or proficiency flights. Seems like a missed recruiting opportunity to me.

[Dad2-4]

I agree with the comment that I've only heard "wannabe" in reference to overly gung-ho cadets who want to play real military and throw rank around. All of the SMs I've worked with seemed to have a clear understanding of our mission and place in the grand military related community.
In the squadrons I've been in, most, not all, of the officers call each other by our rank even in casual settings just because we've gotten into that habit. At CAP functions we all address each other by rank because there's always cadets around. No big deal.

[flyguy06]

we need a formal basic trainng program for new senior members. Right now all we have is a computer based level one that all you have to do is read and answer some questions. there is no practical evaluation process or standardized training. We need that.

Could you expand on what your are hoping for here?

I assume you are not talking about some sort of mandatory Annual Training / OCS like the ACA performs, but something a little more local and portable.

yes Ned. i am talking about some time of centralized program on the Wing level like an SLS where new Senior members cango for two days and learn customs and curteousies, how to wear the uniform properly, military traditons and ceremonies, and things such as that.

Yes, sort of like OCS without all the physical activitiy and the whole yelling thing.

[flyguy06]

flyguy06, you need to put things in perspective of what CAP actually is to many members before you get all bent out of shape over titles of address... least you be labeled as the title of this thread would suggest.

Also, I beg to differ about your assertion about the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary.  The one possible exception being commodores as far as titles are concerned.

My reference to the CG Aux wasnt about titles. It was about how they have no problem wearing a uniform that looks exactly like their parent organization yet we in CAP want to wear a civilain style uniform.

[flyguy06]

This has nothing to do with Army vs. Air Force or anything like that. Loking at this thread you'd think i am the only one in CAP with this opinion. Well I am not. This subject was actually brought to me by other senior members. I just happen to agree withthem.

Its not about being saluted or calling me sir. I get that in the RM. Its about adhearing to a standard. Doesnt matter if cadets are around or not. You dont abide by the standards when cadets are around and them not do it when they are not. what kind of lesson in integrity is that teaching?

Again, I am not saying every waking moment we need to address each other by rank and name. of course ininformal situations, or off duty, or outside of CAP obviously you wouldnt do that,. but when in uniform on CAP duty we should. Wheather cadets are present or not.

Thats all  Iam saying.

[RRLE]

My reference to the CG Aux wasnt about titles. It was about how they have no problem wearing a uniform that looks exactly like their parent organization yet we in CAP want to wear a civilain style uniform.

You will get into this same arguement in the Aux. On their main discussion board, they are having this arguement right now. There is a significant number of Auxies and Coasties who think the Aux should wear a different uniform for many of the same reasons it is brought up in CAP: members who wear it incorrectly, out of shape etc. And since the Aux and the Coast Guard work more directly with the public there is the on-going discussion of Auxies impersonating (deliberately or not) Coast Guard officers and deceiving the pubic.

The Aux doesn't have a Corporate Uniform like CAP but it does have a Blue Blazer outift, two polo shirt outfits and a t-shirt option.

The organizations are different but the issues are the same.

[James Shaw]

Am I a wannbee because I choose to wear the military style uniforms as opposed to the blue golf shirt or CAP distinctive uniform? and because I want to be addressed by my rank?

I would have to agree with you 100%. For me it all depends on the situation and what I am doing at the time. When I am around cadets I prefer to be addressed by my rank and last name to help the cadets learn and understand. Thats what we are here for. If I am at a CAP meeting such as the NB than I am more formal with rank and names. If I am in a less formal setting such as a seminar class or something than I am less formal.

When we have a meeting for the Medal of Valor Association we go by firstnames and less formal. We have current and former members.


For me it is going to depend on the environment I am in.

I dont think it makes you a wannabee it makes you a professional.

[RiverAux]

There is a significant number of Auxies and Coasties who think the Aux should wear a different uniform for many of the same reasons it is brought up in CAP

By significant, he means about 3 of the 10 or so people that are active on the board (and maybe only 1 that is actually currently in the Aux) plus a troll that recently weighed in. 

There is absolutely 0 discussion in real world CG Aux about switching to a different uniform and I'm positive that not a single Auxie I know would want to do so. 

[flyboy53]

Please remember we are CIVIL Air Patrol.  You aren't in the military.  Don't let your rank go to your head .   Perhaps it's just my experience,  but it seems that I find that there's more "goof balls"  wearing the AF style uniforms,  versus the corporate type options. 
RM

Pardon me, but we are still a federally-chartered volunteer organization that reports to the Air Force and given the honor of wearing that uniform. As such, there are also three federally or Air Force-assigned missions that require a military organizational hierarchy of ranks, units and titles. I realize that there are just as many civilianized "grey suiters" in this organization as there are those who lean to the Air Force Aux side -- as I do and I'm a wannabe -- but failure to abide by that hierarchy and demand respect for a rank or title does a great dis-service to the cadets and smacks at any type of professionalism that we try to aspire to. So many cadets have such a poor perception of senior members now, why give them more ammunition leading to dissension and disrepect in the ranks.

[RRLE]

RiverAux,

After your parsing of your own recent poll to get the number you wanted, I wouldn't take any of your so-called stats for much use.

As a matter of fact, Tony Morris who at the time was a Deputy Department Chief of "I" and went on to become the NADCO (National Directorate Commodore) of Member Services, which included personnel and uniforms - often entertained the idea of distinct uniforms on the old Member Forum - which he also moderated.

The 'baby blue' VE uniform was developed because some elements of both the public and the Aux thought the Working Blue Uniform was too intimidating. And it is a current member who is constantly bewailing the 'swat' ODU and the companion boots. And he isn't the only current member not enamoured with that uniform. In fact, most of the critiicism on the board and agiation for a different uniform comes from current members.

[Eclipse]

...most of the critiicism on the board and agiation for a different uniform comes from current members.

Who else would care?

[RiverAux]

In fact, most of the critiicism on the board and agiation for a different uniform comes from current members.

Actually it is not, but I invite any CAPTalkers who would like to fact check this to look at military.com and see for yourself.  The CG Aux board is pretty much dead and what remains is dominated by people that are no longer in the Aux (some voluntarily and at least one who was forced out) plus a few random ex-CG, non Aux members who weigh in every now and again.  The few actual current Aux members are usually shouted down pretty quickly whenever expressing any positive opinions about the organization.  Imagine a situation where CAPTalks two primary trolls represented about a quarter of those who participated, rather than just being a small minority as they are here.

I'll let the Aux angle drop now. 

[flyguy06]

My reference to the CG Aux wasnt about titles. It was about how they have no problem wearing a uniform that looks exactly like their parent organization yet we in CAP want to wear a civilain style uniform.

You will get into this same arguement in the Aux. On their main discussion board, they are having this arguement right now. There is a significant number of Auxies and Coasties who think the Aux should wear a different uniform for many of the same reasons it is brought up in CAP: members who wear it incorrectly, out of shape etc. And since the Aux and the Coast Guard work more directly with the public there is the on-going discussion of Auxies impersonating (deliberately or not) Coast Guard officers and deceiving the pubic.

The Aux doesn't have a Corporate Uniform like CAP but it does have a Blue Blazer outift, two polo shirt outfits and a t-shirt option.

The organizations are different but the issues are the same.

Thats my oint. We need to ensure hat mewmbers wear their uniforms correctly and if they do not meet height and weight standards then they should wear the alternate "military" style uniform. Now how do you enforce this with volunteers? You empower Squadron Commanders. Train Commanders to counsel members and if neccessary take dicsiplinary actions if members do not comply.

[SarDragon]

And what disciplinary actions do you suggest?

[Short Field]

I really haven't seen a problem when it comes to correcting senior members about uniform wear.   It normally just takes a few words in private to correct poor behavior.  About the biggest thing is letting a few members know that their hair was really too long for a military style uniform. 

[PHall]

Flyguy, two things. Your spelling sucks, take a second to look your post over before you hit the "Post" button please.

And just what kind of Disciplinary Actions are you thinking of? Most Commanders only have two available to them, suspension and 2b. Both require a lot of documentation. Is an uniform infraction worth that kind of pain?

[jpizzo127]

I have heard the term "secret squirrel" used derisively quite often in my real CAP life.

This is frequently thrown around at my local GA airport. Apparently a number of folks have tried to strike up conversations with CAP members before/after missions and the crews refuse to provide any information about what they're up to, even when on training missions or proficiency flights. Seems like a missed recruiting opportunity to me.

That's OPSEC and its mandatory.

[heliodoc]

OPSEC??  Again??

Form 5's and proficiency flights

Unless somebody is rolling in a GA8  ......  maybe.....  Maybe Predator Surrogate

Secret squirrel stuff ....... you mean like flying FEMA and flood/ photo flights...OPSEC ..are you really kidding me??

There goes that stuff like throwing OPSEC around again

[NCRblues]

opsec in day to day operations of cap... LOVE IT

[jimmydeanno]

"Hey Kid, I saw you guys doing pushups and stuff over there, what's that about?"

"I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that with you..."

"Oh, well why are you wearing a uniform?"

"I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that with you..."

"Is that your organization's plane over there with the Civil Air Patrol markers on it?"

"I can't neither confirm, nor deny that information."

Good Grief...

[Rotorhead]

I have heard the term "secret squirrel" used derisively quite often in my real CAP life.

This is frequently thrown around at my local GA airport. Apparently a number of folks have tried to strike up conversations with CAP members before/after missions and the crews refuse to provide any information about what they're up to, even when on training missions or proficiency flights. Seems like a missed recruiting opportunity to me.

That's OPSEC and its mandatory.

Wrong, and that attitude is part of our collective problem.

[Spike]

^ I don't think this stuff happens that often. 

[RRLE]

^ I don't think this stuff happens that often. 

Be careful there, there might be another poll in your future. 

[Fubar]

^ I don't think this stuff happens that often.

Maybe it does, but nobody is telling you. OPSEC you know. 

[NCRblues]

That's right even if opsec was used, you would never know, because they couldn't tell you, because of opsec..... Also this post never happened if anyone asked...

[RADIOMAN015]

Thats my oint. We need to ensure hat mewmbers wear their uniforms correctly and if they do not meet height and weight standards then they should wear the alternate "military" style uniform. Now how do you enforce this with volunteers? You empower Squadron Commanders. Train Commanders to counsel members and if neccessary take dicsiplinary actions if members do not comply.

Commander's already have the power to enforce uniform wear standards.   Surely this "enforcement" power is more as gentle pursuasion to the members, rather than some military fantansy (that some have) of barking out orders.  Frankly CAP shouldn't be calling any uniform an "alternative", but should basically called it the corporate uniforms appropriate for wear by all senior members.  BTW I think you will find that the basic CAP uniform for CAP senior members is the white aviator shirt & grey pants, along with the appropriate name tag & epaulets.   My experience is that the golf shirt wearers seem to be the smarter & very productive contributing members of CAP  -- they don't have to prove anything to anyone (BTW and that includes wear at an AF SAREX evaluation).  Some of the dumbest people I've met seem to wear a great mlitary style uniform & have a great haircut, and meet weight standards  --our great for PA photo shoots, but don't let them be interviewed because the fantasy will disappear
RM

[fightingfalcon]

I would rather have everything told to me so I can wear the proper uniform and listen to the orders.

[SarDragon]

I would rather have everything told to me so I can wear the proper uniform and listen to the orders.

Keep in mind that some of the folks telling you things about uniforms might be giving you incorrect information. A prime example is the use of the term 'Class As' referring to the Service Dress uniform. It's 100% wrong, but some will say that they learned it that way from Major Hoobenfratz, who's been in CAP forever, so it must be correct.

Look it up for yourself. Then you will have a better understanding of what's right and wrong.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[edit to change correct to incorrect]

[Hawk200]

Keep in mind that some of the folks telling you things about uniforms might be giving you correct information. A prime example is the use of the term 'Class As' referring to the Service Dress uniform. It's 100% wrong, but some will say that they learned it that way from Major Hoobenfratz, who's been in CAP forever, so it must be correct.

Look it up for yourself. Then you will have a better understanding of what's right and wrong.

I'm reminded of the phrase: "Trust, but verify." Anyone fully aware of the facts won't mind. Personally, I'm happy to hear someone say, "I actually looked that up..."