Incident w/Police

[Hawk200]

Actually, Stonewall, your mileage may vary, but I think we actually got MORE nut-cases on the police department after they started psychological testing.  Psychology is not a precise science, and the tests are imperfect.  But once it is "Passed" one has documentation of sanity, and gut feelings, history of poor judgement, and interview performance are swept away because of the allure of this pseudo-scientific testing.

They don't even have to be cops to be a nutjob claiming it. Had a guy where I worked that started out as a "policeman". One girl that worked there had a bit of a leadfoot, and he told here that when he got his radar gun, he was gonna catch her speeding and lock her up. She called the police department, and asked if he was a cop. They told her no.

After being busted on that, he claimed that he was a constable. Asked my father about it (he's been a deputy for almost forty years), and he asked around. Nothing there either. The manager's mother works for the Sherrif, and she looked into it. Once he had the info, he confronted the guy. So ended his "constable" career.

However, he became a "bounty hunter".  He announced this (literally) one day in the same manner as an 8 year old would. He transferred to our other store a couple weeks later. After a couple weeks there, he was fired after walking into someone's house and demanding to see her credit card when he was delivering her pizza. Didn't have a job two minutes after returning to the store.

Turns out he had spent time in the local psych hospital. From what I understand, he would never become an actual cop. I think my biggest worry was that he would stop some girl, lock her in his basement, and feed her bread and water.

It's the wackos like this that are the reason cops tell people to find someplace safely lighted. Those freaks are out there.

[SKYKING607]

I had a felony suspect detained at gunpoint and was awaiting back-units and some lugnut approached me (within 3 feet) wanting to know what's going on. 

Dude...you could see it's a traffic stop.  Do not stand within 5' of the first unit.  What were you thinking?  Just go with it and return to normal operations.  Does the officer owe you an explanation?  No.  From your post...you figured it out yourself.  (Traffic stop).

I've had positive contacts with the public after "situations" and some negative ones.  Trust me, if this is a traffic stop and you are standing 5' from the first police vehicle...you are to
*&$%^&$ close.

[jb512]

As we say, if I wanted to make everybody happy I'd have been a fireman.

[SJFedor]

So, do police officers generally not want you to pull into a parking lot when stopped?

The few times I have been pulled over I tend to try and pull into a parking lot or gas station, just because it isn't on the road and therefore I, and the officer are less likely to get hit by someone who isn't paying attention on the road.

I've only been pulled over 1 time here in TN. However, I do get to spend a lot of time with our fine Metro Nashville PD officers at work (as they escort in the DUI they pulled over who 'All of a sudden' developed chest pain during the stop). During my stop:

1) I was going faster then the speed limit (85 in 70, 1am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning, trying to get home from an 18hr day at the hospital and wasn't paying attention)

2) The officer lit me up on a part of I-24 where, even if I was grinding the side of my car against the barrier, there'd only be 6 inches of room for the officer to work

So, I acknowledged him stopping me by turning on my 4-ways, moved to the right most travel lane, slowed to about 60, and continued for about 1/2 mile until the shoulder opened up.

When he asked why I didn't pull over right away, I told him I didn't feel that where he lit me up was a safe area to stop, and wanted to find a place where I could vacate the road better and give him room to work.

The only reason I even thought of that was because a few weeks prior, we had an MNPD officer who came in injured from being hit by another vehicle on a stop.

He asked where I was coming from, I told him I was coming from work, he looked at my hospital ID badge, asked me to slow down, and sent me on my way.

I actually got to sit and talk w/ him one night about 2 months later, when he was babysitting a DUI that wrapped his car around a lightpole. Scarily enough, he remembered me. Eventually I asked about the traffic stop, and asked if there was anything I could have done different. And what he said was very similar to the things Col Bowden, Maj Kach, and the other LEOs on here said, like when they light you up, they've already decided this is where they want you to stop. But he also did appreciate my thought and caring, and understood from my background, what my thought process was. He also said he wasn't that concerned about me going an extra 1/2 mile, mainly because of this strapped to the back of my car:


99% of the officers out there are decent human beings, just doing a job that a lot of people look down upon, and do it while people are spitting in their faces/running from them/shooting at them. I hold a ton of respect for them, and every rare time I have an officer in my ER as a patient, I make sure I bend over backwards to take care of them, because they're the ones out there at all hours taking care of us, whether we know it or not.

[Flying Pig]

I thought of this thread last night.

I am traveling on Hwy 168 last night which is a decent size 4 lane highway, when a Mustang flies past me doing about 90mph.  I follow the guy quite a distance.  We are now hitting 95mph. I light the guy up.  Almost immediately he slams on his brakes and jerks to the shoulder and stops.  This is odd behavior.

Anyway, He's upset at me when I get up to the car asking me what authority I have to stop him.  I tell him about the speed.  He again asks me what authority did I have to stop him. To make a long story short....His Criminal Justice Professor told him that ONLY the California Highway Patrol had the authority to conduct vehicle stops on state highways.  He then proceeded to school me on what my authority was a Deputy Sheriff and that I needed to go back to the academy.  I asked him, if thats the case, then why do I have a book of cites in my car that say "TRAFFIC" on them?  So, I imagine today in class, he and his instructor are pondering over a yellow carbon copy of a traffic citation issued by a Deputy Sheriff. 

So maybe he will get his professor to pay the fine.

[mynetdude]

I thought of this thread last night.

I am traveling on Hwy 168 last night which is a decent size 4 lane highway, when a Mustang flies past me doing about 90mph.  I follow the guy quite a distance.  We are now hitting 95mph. I light the guy up.  Almost immediately he slams on his brakes and jerks to the shoulder and stops.  This is odd behavior.

Anyway, He's upset at me when I get up to the car asking me what authority I have to stop him.  I tell him about the speed.  He again asks me what authority did I have to stop him. To make a long story short....His Criminal Justice Professor told him that ONLY the California Highway Patrol had the authority to conduct vehicle stops on state highways.  He then proceeded to school me on what my authority was a Deputy Sheriff and that I needed to go back to the academy.  I asked him, if thats the case, then why do I have a book of cites in my car that say "TRAFFIC" on them?  So, I imagine today in class, he and his instructor are pondering over a yellow carbon copy of a traffic citation issued by a Deputy Sheriff. 

So maybe he will get his professor to pay the fine.

heh I'll bet not, his professor is probably going to say "I didn't say that"

[stillamarine]

I thought of this thread last night.

I am traveling on Hwy 168 last night which is a decent size 4 lane highway, when a Mustang flies past me doing about 90mph.  I follow the guy quite a distance.  We are now hitting 95mph. I light the guy up.  Almost immediately he slams on his brakes and jerks to the shoulder and stops.  This is odd behavior.

Anyway, He's upset at me when I get up to the car asking me what authority I have to stop him.  I tell him about the speed.  He again asks me what authority did I have to stop him. To make a long story short....His Criminal Justice Professor told him that ONLY the California Highway Patrol had the authority to conduct vehicle stops on state highways.  He then proceeded to school me on what my authority was a Deputy Sheriff and that I needed to go back to the academy.  I asked him, if thats the case, then why do I have a book of cites in my car that say "TRAFFIC" on them?  So, I imagine today in class, he and his instructor are pondering over a yellow carbon copy of a traffic citation issued by a Deputy Sheriff. 

So maybe he will get his professor to pay the fine.

We have a similar thing here. Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission LEOs are fully certified State LEOs and as such can enforce laws other than those related to, well fish and wildlife. I love to see someone go speeding past me, slow down when they see a truck with lightbar driving in front of me, then after seeing its FWC zoom past it, only to have the truck flip on the lights.

[Ned]

I thought of this thread last night.

I am traveling on Hwy 168 last night which is a decent size 4 lane highway, when a Mustang flies past me doing about 90mph.  I follow the guy quite a distance.  We are now hitting 95mph. I light the guy up.  Almost immediately he slams on his brakes and jerks to the shoulder and stops.  This is odd behavior.

Anyway, He's upset at me when I get up to the car asking me what authority I have to stop him.  I tell him about the speed.  He again asks me what authority did I have to stop him. To make a long story short....His Criminal Justice Professor told him that ONLY the California Highway Patrol had the authority to conduct vehicle stops on state highways.  He then proceeded to school me on what my authority was a Deputy Sheriff and that I needed to go back to the academy.  I asked him, if thats the case, then why do I have a book of cites in my car that say "TRAFFIC" on them?  So, I imagine today in class, he and his instructor are pondering over a yellow carbon copy of a traffic citation issued by a Deputy Sheriff. 

So maybe he will get his professor to pay the fine.

Ahhh that takes me back . . . My first full-time LE job was as a University of California Police officer.  (There are times I still can't believe I quit that job. )

Many, many discussions with members of the public who were a mite confused by the whole "sworn peace officer in and for the State of California" thing.

Of course, I was also keenly aware of my agency's "4 hour minimum OT" rule for court, so during a traffic stop like the one described by Flying Pig, I would always reply "Hmmmm, good point.  You should set this for trial and absolutely tell the judge about that. Cuz if you're right, it'll have to be dismissed!  I could even get in trouble." 


That was worth about $200 a month.  Hee-hee. 

[mynetdude]

I thought of this thread last night.

I am traveling on Hwy 168 last night which is a decent size 4 lane highway, when a Mustang flies past me doing about 90mph.  I follow the guy quite a distance.  We are now hitting 95mph. I light the guy up.  Almost immediately he slams on his brakes and jerks to the shoulder and stops.  This is odd behavior.

Anyway, He's upset at me when I get up to the car asking me what authority I have to stop him.  I tell him about the speed.  He again asks me what authority did I have to stop him. To make a long story short....His Criminal Justice Professor told him that ONLY the California Highway Patrol had the authority to conduct vehicle stops on state highways.  He then proceeded to school me on what my authority was a Deputy Sheriff and that I needed to go back to the academy.  I asked him, if thats the case, then why do I have a book of cites in my car that say "TRAFFIC" on them?  So, I imagine today in class, he and his instructor are pondering over a yellow carbon copy of a traffic citation issued by a Deputy Sheriff. 

So maybe he will get his professor to pay the fine.

We have a similar thing here. Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission LEOs are fully certified State LEOs and as such can enforce laws other than those related to, well fish and wildlife. I love to see someone go speeding past me, slow down when they see a truck with lightbar driving in front of me, then after seeing its FWC zoom past it, only to have the truck flip on the lights.

I was going to ask about something similar, on occassion here in Oregon where I live I'll see a vehicle marked in white/green that say "Law Enforcement" (note it doesn't say police, sherrif, state police, etc) I assume these are BLM/US Forrest Service/OF&W (Oregon Fish & Wildlife) or something of the likes. I have never seen them do a traffic stop, however I wouldn't be surprised if they did as they are "Law Enforcement" hence they can enforce the law the question is... why don't they? Or maybe I should ask why are they not common helping out or whatever? I guess their role is important in other areas?

That also being said, I would also not be surprised if an out of jurisdiction LEO was driving in a jurisdiction he was visiting could make a traffic stop until in jurisdiction units arrived.  I'm sure there are proceedures/red tape for this to happen though.

[flyerthom]

They don't even have to be cops to be a nutjob claiming it. Had a guy where I worked that started out as a "policeman". One girl that worked there had a bit of a leadfoot, and he told here that when he got his radar gun, he was gonna catch her speeding and lock her up. She called the police department, and asked if he was a cop. They told her no.

Oh man, bet the medics can fill in some of these, like the one patient I had who claimed his alcohol problem was from Vietnam and Agent Orange exposure. He was born in 1970.

Or the woman who claimed she was friends with John Kennedy, flew Huey's in Vietnam -1n 1962 - and almost was captured by the Viet Kong - date of birth on her ID 1957. 

[mynetdude]

They don't even have to be cops to be a nutjob claiming it. Had a guy where I worked that started out as a "policeman". One girl that worked there had a bit of a leadfoot, and he told here that when he got his radar gun, he was gonna catch her speeding and lock her up. She called the police department, and asked if he was a cop. They told her no.

Oh man, bet the medics can fill in some of these, like the one patient I had who claimed his alcohol problem was from Vietnam and Agent Orange exposure. He was born in 1970.

Or the woman who claimed she was friends with John Kennedy, flew Huey's in Vietnam -1n 1962 - and almost was captured by the Viet Kong - date of birth on her ID 1957. 

So these people were "minature adults" or did all these activities "pre-birth"?

[JoeTomasone]

Actually, in both places where I've lived (NY and FL), police are granted police powers by the State - meaning that while they may work in and get paid by a given jurisdiction, they are police officers with full police powers anywhere in the State they go.     One guy I went to school with learned that the hard way when he was speeding in front of a police car from the neighboring County - he figured he didn't have to slow down since he couldn't be pulled over, right?   Well, apparently that offended the officer, who lit him up and wrote him up. 

[mynetdude]

Actually, in both places where I've lived (NY and FL), police are granted police powers by the State - meaning that while they may work in and get paid by a given jurisdiction, they are police officers with full police powers anywhere in the State they go.     One guy I went to school with learned that the hard way when he was speeding in front of a police car from the neighboring County - he figured he didn't have to slow down since he couldn't be pulled over, right?   Well, apparently that offended the officer, who lit him up and wrote him up. 

police are granted police powers? That makes no logical sense here... to me it doesn't anyway.  Like I was saying, out of jurisdiction procedures vary from state to state really.

[JoeTomasone]

Actually, in both places where I've lived (NY and FL), police are granted police powers by the State - meaning that while they may work in and get paid by a given jurisdiction, they are police officers with full police powers anywhere in the State they go.     One guy I went to school with learned that the hard way when he was speeding in front of a police car from the neighboring County - he figured he didn't have to slow down since he couldn't be pulled over, right?   Well, apparently that offended the officer, who lit him up and wrote him up. 

police are granted police powers? That makes no logical sense here... to me it doesn't anyway.  Like I was saying, out of jurisdiction procedures vary from state to state really.

Let me rephrase/clarify:

"Actually, in both places where I've lived (NY and FL), police are granted their police powers by the State, not by the individual jurisdiction"

Better?

[mynetdude]

Actually, in both places where I've lived (NY and FL), police are granted police powers by the State - meaning that while they may work in and get paid by a given jurisdiction, they are police officers with full police powers anywhere in the State they go.     One guy I went to school with learned that the hard way when he was speeding in front of a police car from the neighboring County - he figured he didn't have to slow down since he couldn't be pulled over, right?   Well, apparently that offended the officer, who lit him up and wrote him up. 

police are granted police powers? That makes no logical sense here... to me it doesn't anyway.  Like I was saying, out of jurisdiction procedures vary from state to state really.

Let me rephrase/clarify:

"Actually, in both places where I've lived (NY and FL), police are granted their police powers by the State, not by the individual jurisdiction"

Better?

Thank you much sir

[Flying Pig]

In Ca. I am a law enforcement officer anywhere in the State.  Although my jurisdiction is the County of Fresno, if I am in San Diego, 500 miles away, I am still a cop with full authority.  Now, I don't patrol neighboring counties,  because I am not paid to patrol other areas outside of Fresno, and there are some logistical/legal concerns that arise, such as if I witness a crime and make an arrest while on patrol in a neighboring county, I have to book that person into the county jail in that county.  Then all of the court cases would be in that county.  So, basically, if I run across something, I call the local guys and turn it over to them.

[SAR-EMT1]

Now ive sat out and read the posts like a good boy. Now Im throwing in my two cents as relates to EMS...

I have been transporting a full arrest in the ambulance and running in excess of the speed limit with lights and siren ON.
However a crusier flipped his bar on and followed me til we got to the hospital. He then tried to detain me and obtain my license, I politely ignored him for the moment though since I needed to move the pt into the ER. Once I came back out he stated that he wanted to ensure i had a pt onboard.
-- Im still not sure why my partner and I might be running code 3 in an ambulance if it didnt involve a matter of life and death. -- have any of you lawdogs seen an ambulance going code three to lunch or something?

In an ambulance I only turn on the lights and sirens when either the medics interventions are only 'buying-time' enroute to the hospital or when the trip TO the scene exceeds 5 minutes. Its safer for us to drive without the lights and sirens, and somehow our GPS systems have proven that we complete trips faster without them.

99% of the time my siren and lightbar stay off. Studies have show that cops, firefighters and EMS all get hurt more along a roadway. Studies have shown that folks are drawn to red and blue strobes at night. Some departments are experimenting with setups that only display amber or clear lights to the rear.

As far as EMS and LE relate. What do you as police elsewhere in the country like to see or not see in regards to us blueshirts?

[JoeTomasone]

I remember reading a newspaper expose many years ago in which reporters discovered and taped ambulances that were indeed running lights and sirens without a valid emergency reason.    If I recall correctly, most were trying to beat heavy traffic and lights at the end of a shift - and they caught some Police at it as well.    This was 15-20 years ago, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details now.   

[JohnKachenmeister]

Now ive sat out and read the posts like a good boy. Now Im throwing in my two cents as relates to EMS...

I have been transporting a full arrest in the ambulance and running in excess of the speed limit with lights and siren ON.
However a crusier flipped his bar on and followed me til we got to the hospital. He then tried to detain me and obtain my license, I politely ignored him for the moment though since I needed to move the pt into the ER. Once I came back out he stated that he wanted to ensure i had a pt onboard.
-- Im still not sure why my partner and I might be running code 3 in an ambulance if it didnt involve a matter of life and death. -- have any of you lawdogs seen an ambulance going code three to lunch or something?

In an ambulance I only turn on the lights and sirens when either the medics interventions are only 'buying-time' enroute to the hospital or when the trip TO the scene exceeds 5 minutes. Its safer for us to drive without the lights and sirens, and somehow our GPS systems have proven that we complete trips faster without them.

99% of the time my siren and lightbar stay off. Studies have show that cops, firefighters and EMS all get hurt more along a roadway. Studies have shown that folks are drawn to red and blue strobes at night. Some departments are experimenting with setups that only display amber or clear lights to the rear.

As far as EMS and LE relate. What do you as police elsewhere in the country like to see or not see in regards to us blueshirts?

Well... did your driver run someone off the road?  Otherwise, I cannot explain this behavior.

[mynetdude]

Now ive sat out and read the posts like a good boy. Now Im throwing in my two cents as relates to EMS...

I have been transporting a full arrest in the ambulance and running in excess of the speed limit with lights and siren ON.
However a crusier flipped his bar on and followed me til we got to the hospital. He then tried to detain me and obtain my license, I politely ignored him for the moment though since I needed to move the pt into the ER. Once I came back out he stated that he wanted to ensure i had a pt onboard.
-- Im still not sure why my partner and I might be running code 3 in an ambulance if it didnt involve a matter of life and death. -- have any of you lawdogs seen an ambulance going code three to lunch or something?

In an ambulance I only turn on the lights and sirens when either the medics interventions are only 'buying-time' enroute to the hospital or when the trip TO the scene exceeds 5 minutes. Its safer for us to drive without the lights and sirens, and somehow our GPS systems have proven that we complete trips faster without them.

99% of the time my siren and lightbar stay off. Studies have show that cops, firefighters and EMS all get hurt more along a roadway. Studies have shown that folks are drawn to red and blue strobes at night. Some departments are experimenting with setups that only display amber or clear lights to the rear.

As far as EMS and LE relate. What do you as police elsewhere in the country like to see or not see in regards to us blueshirts?

Well... did your driver run someone off the road?  Otherwise, I cannot explain this behavior.

Like I've said before I'm not EMS/LEO... alittle common sense though.

I have never seen this kind of behavior before, sure I don't see a problem with cops checking to make sure EMS/Fire or heck OTHER cops are not abusing the light/siren use.  We are all human, we all do stupid things from time to time and if using siren/lights is one of them then just let them know that it isn't ok and can have some consequences if such abuses continue.

I can only see some basic reasons for a cop to question the use of code 3 siren/lights is A) abuse, B) unsafe manuevers or unsafe driving etc C) like someone here said, collision with pedestrian or vehicle but then again I am sure the ambulance would have stopped???

In my community I have noticed just about every vehicle with light/sirens ON seem to stop (rolling stop/slow down) at every major intersection where there are other civilian vehicles present to give vehicles that are already IN the intersection or proceeding through the intersection (they could not safely stop in time) to pass through the intersection (this only lasts for a couple seconds).  The only exception to that I've seen is LE on a vehicle chase as they obviously don't seem to slow down (defeats the point of a chase if you're gonna slow down )

I have seen rare light bars ON and no sirens but they were going VERY fast, and on occasion they'll have their lights on and will sound a short burst to alert vehicles in front of them on rural roads as they don't need sirens all the way there.

I suppose you'd find light/siren abuse more in the major cities or the bad guys who want to "pretend" they are a cop or EMS whatever...