If you had the power

[usafcap1]

Just give me a straight answer here. We are or we are not the Air Force auxiliary? Because I'm getting mixed signals here.

Yes:

Pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 9442, CAP is an auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of CAP are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government.

CAP is a federally supported, congressionally chartered non-profit corporation that may be utilized as a civilian volunteer auxiliary of the Air Force.

As a nonprofit corporation, CAP has a unique relationship with the Air Force. As set forth in 10 U.S.C. 9442, CAP is a volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force and the Secretary of the Air Force may use the services of CAP to fulfill the noncombat programs and missions of the Air Force.

Thank you. Another straight answer. So if somebody said that they were in the Air Force auxiliary this would be a truism?

[Storm Chaser]

Just give me a straight answer here. We are or we are not the Air Force auxiliary? Because I'm getting mixed signals here.

Yes:

Pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 9442, CAP is an auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of CAP are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government.

CAP is a federally supported, congressionally chartered non-profit corporation that may be utilized as a civilian volunteer auxiliary of the Air Force.

As a nonprofit corporation, CAP has a unique relationship with the Air Force. As set forth in 10 U.S.C. 9442, CAP is a volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force and the Secretary of the Air Force may use the services of CAP to fulfill the noncombat programs and missions of the Air Force.

Thank you. Another straight answer. So if somebody said that they were in the Air Force auxiliary this would be a truism?

According to the CAP Constitution, Article II, the name of the corporation is Civil Air Patrol. Its status is that of the volunteer civilian auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force. As such, it's not incorrect to say we're in the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary (referring to our organization by its status), but it's more appropriate to say we're in the Civil Air Patrol, which is the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary.

Sorry, but I can't give you a straighter answer that this without venturing into interpretation and opinions.

[JeffDG]

CAP is not a USAF Auxiliary all the time.

The law is pretty clear on that matter:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/9442

(a) Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary.— The Civil Air Patrol is a volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government.

Note the part of "when..."

When you go to a unit meeting, you're not in Auxiliary status.  When you are at a Wing/Region/National conference, not Aux. 

When you are flying on a C12 proficiency flight, not Aux.  Only on an A or B mission symbol (AFAMs).  All work CAP does for the federal government is done on either an A (AF paid) or B (someone else pays) status and approved by CAP-USAF.

[lordmonar]

This is hair splitting here.



But the CP.....PRO Flights.....doing the admin work.....going to conferences......is all part of the back end infrasturute.....of doing the A and B missions.

WE ARE ALWAYS THE AXILLARY.....but sometimes we are not "instruments of government".

This is semantics I know....but important semantics.

[usafcap1]

Thank you. But you all definitely see why there would be mixed signals here, right. Some people say yes some people say no.

But how about I say this: We are, but we're not, but technically we are.

Why don't we all just agree to disagree.

[JeffDG]

This is hair splitting here.



But the CP.....PRO Flights.....doing the admin work.....going to conferences......is all part of the back end infrasturute.....of doing the A and B missions.

WE ARE ALWAYS THE AXILLARY.....but sometimes we are not "instruments of government".

This is semantics I know....but important semantics.

You may think that, but the law is clear.  The law says we are only aux "when the services of the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government."

The part after the when is important.  And you're right, it's legal, and the law is all about semantics.

If you think this is wrong, talk to you Congressman, because that's who can change it.

[JeffDG]

Thank you. But you all definitely see why there would be mixed signals here, right. Some people say yes some people say no.

But how about I say this: We are, but we're not, but technically we are.

Why don't we all just agree to disagree.

Some people react emotionally, some people cite the clear language of the United States Code Annotated.

[FW]

This is hair splitting here.



But the CP.....PRO Flights.....doing the admin work.....going to conferences......is all part of the back end infrasturute.....of doing the A and B missions.

WE ARE ALWAYS THE AXILLARY.....but sometimes we are not "instruments of government".

This is semantics I know....but important semantics.

You may think that, but the law is clear.  The law says we are only aux "when the services of the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government."

The part after the when is important.  And you're right, it's legal, and the law is all about semantics.

If you think this is wrong, talk to you Congressman, because that's who can change it.

The law is very clear; CAP is always acting as "an" auxiliary of the Air Force.  CAP members (or most subordinate units), however are not, except "when performing missions for any branch of the federal government...."

Now, that is hair splitting...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Thank you. But you all definitely see why there would be mixed signals here, right. Some people say yes some people say no.

But how about I say this: We are, but we're not, but technically we are.

Why don't we all just agree to disagree.

You really want to try and justify using that, don't you?


Why don't you just identify based on what it says on your uniform?

[Holding Pattern]

Just give me a straight answer here. We are or we are not the Air Force auxiliary? Because I'm getting mixed signals here.

Here is a better question. Why do you want to refer to yourself as being in an organization by the status of the organization (volunteer civilian auxiliary) instead of its name?

Is it just name recognition? This is a self-perpetuating problem if no one ever uses the proper name of the organization.

Is it just that USAFA sounds cooler? Ok, I can admit that. But it still isn't our proper name.

Civil Air Patrol. Says so right on the top of my membership card. Flip it over, it has the CAP mission statement on it.

Flip it back over. Look right underneath our name.

That is our status right there. United States Air Force Auxiliary. Be proud of that. But be proud of our name too. It isn't something to hide in the shadows.

[Tim Day]

I'm genuinely unclear about what our official CAP position is on whether we are or are not. I think I understand the language in USC and would tend to interpret it along the lines that JeffDG does. However, we have been directed to include USAF Auxiliary in our signature blocks and it's a part of our official seal.

So back on topic, one thing I would change about CAP is the lack of clarity in some of our official messaging, branding, and directives.

[usafcap1]

Thank you. But you all definitely see why there would be mixed signals here, right. Some people say yes some people say no.

But how about I say this: We are, but we're not, but technically we are.

Why don't we all just agree to disagree.

You really want to try and justify using that, don't you?


Why don't you just identify based on what it says on your uniform?

What about my ID card it says United States Air Force Auxiliary on it too.

Anyways, this is completely way, way, way off topic from the original post which was "if you had the power to change the CAP what would you change?" Etc... NOT if the Civil Air Patrol is the United States Air Force Auxiliary.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Anyways, this is completely way, way, way off topic from the original post which was "if you had the power to change the CAP what would you change?" Etc... NOT if the Civil Air Patrol is the United States Air Force Auxiliary.

This stemmed from my comment about 2Bing posers.

[SarDragon]

Mr. Burton, I think this forum would be better served if you, and others, would spend less time positing "what ifs", and more time addressing real issues in CAP.

[usafcap1]

Anyways, this is completely way, way, way off topic from the original post which was "if you had the power to change the CAP what would you change?" Etc... NOT if the Civil Air Patrol is the United States Air Force Auxiliary.

This stemmed from my comment about 2Bing posers.

Yes I understand that thank you. You made your point. We commented on your point. I'm telling the rest of this forum to get on with it. Now let's get on with the original post. We're at page and a half plus about if we are the Air Force auxiliary or not. If wanted to post about are we in the Air Force auxiliary or not I would have done that. Capt Hatkevich this isn't directed towards you, it's directed to everybody. I'll start.

I think we should revamp the counter drug orientation and refresher course. the fact that it's not compatible with all browsers is ridiculous it also looks very outdated.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Anyways, this is completely way, way, way off topic from the original post which was "if you had the power to change the CAP what would you change?" Etc... NOT if the Civil Air Patrol is the United States Air Force Auxiliary.

This stemmed from my comment about 2Bing posers.

Yes I understand that thank you. You made your point. We commented on your point. I'm telling the rest of this forum to get on with it. Now let's get on with the original post. We're at page and a half plus about if we are the Air Force auxiliary or not. If wanted to post about are we in the Air Force auxiliary or not I would have done that. Capt Hatkevich this isn't directed towards you, it's directed to everybody. I'll start.

I think we should revamp the counter drug orientation and refresher course. the fact that it's not compatible with all browsers is ridiculous it also looks very outdated.

Is there a goal here in mind? Is it post count, or quality ideas? Or what?

[CadetRMackey]

As a cadet, I would like to enforce a summer uniform with shorter sleeves, especially for squadrons in humid and hot areas.

I also have a question:
How do you create a post for the CAP Talk forum on TapaTalk?

[Storm Chaser]

As a cadet, I would like to enforce a summer uniform with shorter sleeves, especially for squadrons in humid and hot areas.

I also have a question:
How do you create a post for the CAP Talk forum on TapaTalk?

Click on CAP Talk ^ at the top center of the screen. Select the appropriate forum. Click on the ... on the top right corner, then click on the New Topic icon.

[usafcap1]

Anyways, this is completely way, way, way off topic from the original post which was "if you had the power to change the CAP what would you change?" Etc... NOT if the Civil Air Patrol is the United States Air Force Auxiliary.

This stemmed from my comment about 2Bing posers.

Yes I understand that thank you. You made your point. We commented on your point. I'm telling the rest of this forum to get on with it. Now let's get on with the original post. We're at page and a half plus about if we are the Air Force auxiliary or not. If wanted to post about are we in the Air Force auxiliary or not I would have done that. Capt Hatkevich this isn't directed towards you, it's directed to everybody. I'll start.

I think we should revamp the counter drug orientation and refresher course. the fact that it's not compatible with all browsers is ridiculous it also looks very outdated.

Is there a goal here in mind? Is it post count, or quality ideas? Or what?

I'm just using the tools that are available to ask questions and to receive answers and comments nothing about post count or anything else. Just information.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Then why limit the direction?