Letter from AF re: CGM

[Alaric]

http://bit.ly/1xVSPtm

[ProdigalJim]

Hmmm. A little "Kremlinology" here makes for some interesting (and I think potentially positive) conversation:

1) She uses the phrase "on behalf of your fellow Airmen" (my emphasis)

2) She uses the clause "in the past, present and future" (my emphasis)

3) She says "we could not ask for more dedicated Wingmen than the men and women of the Civil Air Patrol..."

Now yes, all letters like this give off a glow due to their ceremonial nature. But there were many ways to craft that letter without saying those phrases. For some of the CTalkers who are convinced the Air Force doesn't like us, isn't committed to our future and so forth, there are meaningful messages here in the subtext. We're "fellow Airmen," not red-headed stepchildren; she points to the future, implying that we have one, and characterizes us as Wingmen. I'm very pleased by the recognition and the choice of words.

[lordmonar]

That would be double plus good.

[winterg]

I got a warm feeling from the address to fellow airmen.

[JeffDG]

That would be double plus good.

31 years late.

[lordmonar]

I got a warm feeling from the address to fellow airmen.

And jokes aside.....it is the truth.  Those that matter....do think we are part of the team.

[winterg]

It really is a small thing compared to the main point of the letter, CAP wartime service. But the simple gesture to let us know that we are part of the Air Force team goes a long way in my mind.

[flyboy53]

I got a warm feeling from the address to fellow airmen.

And jokes aside.....it is the truth.  Those that matter....do think we are part of the team.

True. I'm still a little curious though about the references to CAP "veterans" during the ceremony.

[James Shaw]

It is a very nice Thank You letter, and I will take it as that. Very nice to see the effort.

[FW]

I appreciate the letter. I felt warm on a very cold day....

[Flying Pig]

I got a warm feeling from the address to fellow airmen.

And jokes aside.....it is the truth.  Those that matter....do think we are part of the team.

True. I'm still a little curious though about the references to CAP "veterans" during the ceremony.

I guess they would be CAP veterans.  Im a Law Enforcement vet, Im a veteran member of CAP.....    The context isnt always in reference to military service.  Thats how I would take it. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Or a veterinarian.

[JeffDG]

True. I'm still a little curious though about the references to CAP "veterans" during the ceremony.

I would attribute that to the fact the ceremony was honoring CAP members for their wartime service.

[James Shaw]

Several years ago (about 2009) there was an effort made to get CAP WWII Members recognized as "Veterans" for their service (American Defense Service Medal)(. There were some prior WWII Members that were filing for benefits based on their CAP Service. They did not have any luck with that. It was one of the first things I worked on when I became National Curator. I was told it never worked out, but was not told why. I was asked to do a design for possible CAP recognition.

There were many designs that were requested that never made it.

They may not have qualified under the "technical definition" at the time but I treated them as though they were.

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[Flying Pig]

Seriously... I know these people have a unique place in CAPs history, but they aren't military vets.  An admin clerk E-1 based in Kansas who never left the country had more skin in the game than a CAP member who served at their leisure.

[DoubleSecret]

I got a warm feeling from the address to fellow airmen.

And jokes aside.....it is the truth.  Those that matter....do think we are part of the team.

Like when I got a varsity letter for being the guy who videotaped the actual players

[RiverAux]

Seriously... I know these people have a unique place in CAPs history, but they aren't military vets.  An admin clerk E-1 based in Kansas who never left the country had more skin in the game than a CAP member who served at their leisure.

With the exception of the guys flying bombs around.  Lots of effort right after WWII to get them some recognition, but it never worked out. 

[lordmonar]

I got a warm feeling from the address to fellow airmen.

And jokes aside.....it is the truth.  Those that matter....do think we are part of the team.

Like when I got a varsity letter for being the guy who videotaped the actual players

Part of the team is part of the team.

[James Shaw]

Part of the team is part of the team.

When I was on active duty I left the NSA/Ford Aerospace Division to go to my first real duty station. Misawa Air Base Japan as part of NSGA Naval Security Group Activity 53 Division. I arrive about 2330 and went to my assigned barracks. About two moths  later during a Command Award Ceremony we were called up to be presented with the Naval Unit Commendation Banner for the Command. I did not move when they called my division up. I was later fussed at for not participating. I told them I had not been at the base long enough to qualify from my understanding. My orders were stamped at 2357 on the last day of the "Eligibility Period" and got it anyway. After a small butt chewing from my Division Officer I was quickly told to get my uniform corrected.

[Private Investigator]

Seriously... I know these people have a unique place in CAPs history, but they aren't military vets.  An admin clerk E-1 based in Kansas who never left the country had more skin in the game than a CAP member who served at their leisure.

With the exception of the guys flying bombs around.  Lots of effort right after WWII to get them some recognition, but it never worked out.

Merchant Mariners of WWII did not get recognized with Veteran status until 1989 or so. Then they were listed as USCG members and received discharge papers to that effect.   

[Private Investigator]

Part of the team is part of the team.

When I was on active duty I left the NSA/Ford Aerospace Division to go to my first real duty station. Misawa Air Base Japan as part of NSGA Naval Security Group Activity 53 Division. I arrive about 2330 and went to my assigned barracks. About two moths  later during a Command Award Ceremony we were called up to be presented with the Naval Unit Commendation Banner for the Command. I did not move when they called my division up. I was later fussed at for not participating. I told them I had not been at the base long enough to qualify from my understanding. My orders were stamped at 2357 on the last day of the "Eligibility Period" and got it anyway. After a small butt chewing from my Division Officer I was quickly told to get my uniform corrected.

I was an hour late on getting my orders stamped so I missed getting a Meritorious Unit Commendation. 

[GroundHawg]

Seriously... I know these people have a unique place in CAPs history, but they aren't military vets.  An admin clerk E-1 based in Kansas who never left the country had more skin in the game than a CAP member who served at their leisure.

With the exception of the guys flying bombs around.  Lots of effort right after WWII to get them some recognition, but it never worked out.

Merchant Mariners of WWII did not get recognized with Veteran status until 1989 or so. Then they were listed as USCG members and received discharge papers to that effect. 

My wife had a great uncle who served in Merchant Marines for the first two years of WWII because he was not old enough to enlist in the Army. As soon as he was of age, he left the Merchant Marines for the Army and served another two years in WWII.
Putting together his shadowbox for my Mother in Law was interesting to say the least.

[Flying Pig]

Merchant Marines and CAP volunteers are apples and oranges. 

[lordmonar]

Merchant Marines and CAP volunteers are apples and oranges.

Yep.....similar in many ways. 

[AirAux]

Has National approved a ribbon or metal for us to wear if we were members during the period the Gold Medal was awarded? 

[Storm Chaser]

Has National approved a ribbon or metal for us to wear if we were members during the period the Gold Medal was awarded?

I doubt it since the CGM was awarded to CAP members who served during WWII. Why would we get a different award for being members at the time this particular medal was awarded?

[Pylon]

Has National approved a ribbon or metal for us to wear if we were members during the period the Gold Medal was awarded?

Yes; it's called the WWII Wartime Service Ribbon.

[Storm Chaser]

I guess I misinterpreted the question.

[AirAux]

Kind of like a Unit Citation is awarded to the unit and all members are allowed to wear it weither or not they participated in the action the award was for..  Ergo, we are members of CAP, we wear gold medals..

[James Shaw]

Kind of like a Unit Citation is awarded to the unit and all members are allowed to wear it weither or not they participated in the action the award was for..  Ergo, we are members of CAP, we wear gold medals..

Similar to that of the Queens Jubilee Medal? She had the Diamond Jubilee in 2012. Medal was struck for all members at that time.

I sincerely doubt CAP would do that.

However: that would make Vanguard and possibly CAP very happy to strike one that 58,000 members were eligible for (depending on criteria) 



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[SarDragon]

The Unit Citation is authorized only for members who were in the unit during the period of the citation. No temporary wearers any more. It's been this way for several years now.

[JeffDG]

The Unit Citation is authorized only for members who were in the unit during the period of the citation. No temporary wearers any more. It's been this way for several years now.

Simple:  Have CAP/CC issue a "National Commander's Unit Citation" award to all members of CAP who served from inception until VJ day to NHQ-NHQ-001 and all subordinate units.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Similar to that of the Queens Jubilee Medal? She had the Diamond Jubilee in 2012. Medal was struck for all members at that time.

It was a little more complicated than that.  There were a certain number allocated for the UK and each of her Realms (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Barbados, etc.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Diamond_Jubilee_Medal

[Pylon]

Kind of like a Unit Citation is awarded to the unit and all members are allowed to wear it weither or not they participated in the action the award was for..  Ergo, we are members of CAP, we wear gold medals..

No; it doesn't work like that.  The Congressional Gold Medal wasn't presented to Civil Air Patrol as a whole organization or to all its members.  It was presented specifically to WWII CAP members.


Members who were recognized by the Congressional Gold Medal already would be entitled to wear the existing CAP WWII Wartime Service Ribbon.  Therefore, no need for any new awards or issuing of new decorations, etc.  They already have a unique decoration identifying them.

[RiverAux]

Members who were recognized by the Congressional Gold Medal already would be entitled to wear the existing CAP WWII Wartime Service Ribbon.  Therefore, no need for any new awards or issuing of new decorations, etc.  They already have a unique decoration identifying them.

I thought that the Wartime Service ribbon only applies to those who did specific activities (subchasers, towtargets, etc.) and that it wasn't just given to everyone who served.  Is that wrong?

[lordmonar]

Members who were recognized by the Congressional Gold Medal already would be entitled to wear the existing CAP WWII Wartime Service Ribbon.  Therefore, no need for any new awards or issuing of new decorations, etc.  They already have a unique decoration identifying them.

I thought that the Wartime Service ribbon only applies to those who did specific activities (subchasers, towtargets, etc.) and that it wasn't just given to everyone who served.  Is that wrong?

According to WIKI, it replaced all those specific service ribbons......"The Wartime Service Ribbon is awarded to CAP members who served during World War II in any one of several capacities. The ribbon replaces several specific World War II ribbons, which are listed below."

Can't find it in 39-3......other then to say where it is in the precedence of ribbons.

[RiverAux]

Yep, I had done the same thing and didn't see anything more definitive.  I would assume that if it just replaced those specific ribbons that you would have had to have met the criteria for one of those to get the wartime service ribbon, ergo not all CAP members who served during WWII would be eligible. 

[JeffDG]

....

[LSThiker]

Yep, I had done the same thing and didn't see anything more definitive.  I would assume that if it just replaced those specific ribbons that you would have had to have met the criteria for one of those to get the wartime service ribbon, ergo not all CAP members who served during WWII would be eligible.

Although, CAPR 39-3 lists this ribbon was the World War II Service Ribbon while Wiki lists the ribbon was Wartime Service Ribbon.  Therefore, I would be hard pressed to accept the Wiki page as hard fact.  In addition, the Wiki page calls them obsolete, while CAPR 39-3 is a little less definitive.  It states:

"Wartime service ribbons awarded during the period February 1942-July 1945 may be worn on the CAP uniform in accordance with CAPM 39-1".

Then it defines those "Wartime service ribbons" as
"World War II Service Ribbon
Antisubmarine Coastal Patrol
Southern Liaison Patrol
Tow-Target and Tracking
Courier
Forest Patrol
Missing Aircraft"

Now, if a person served from Feb 1942 to July 1945 and had proof of his service, I would hardly argue about it. 

[lordmonar]

Yep, I had done the same thing and didn't see anything more definitive.  I would assume that if it just replaced those specific ribbons that you would have had to have met the criteria for one of those to get the wartime service ribbon, ergo not all CAP members who served during WWII would be eligible.

depends on how you read it.   It may have been to replace all those specific missions and expand it to include all the support and CP stuff going on during that time too.

With out a reg or some docs....could not say for certain.

[SarDragon]

The previous 39-1 said this:

World War II Service Ribbon is for cadets and senior members that served during the period 7
December 1941 through 2 September 1945. In addition, the other six WWII ribbons are listed as authorized for wear if earned between the above dates.

I guess the 39-3 didn't get updated when they changed the 39-1, and deleted that text.

[RiverAux]

Okay, then the wartime service ribbon would have taken care of those that were still CAP members, but would have left everyone else hanging. 

[lordmonar]

Okay, then the wartime service ribbon would have taken care of those that were still CAP members, but would have left everyone else hanging.

What everyone else?

[RiverAux]

Never mind.  Guess I got it in my head that someone was suggesting that the CGM wasn't needed since we already had a ribbon.  Re-reading the thread I see I was off track.