Enlisted Troops Saluting CAP "Officers"

[vorteks]

I was on a military base recently for a CAP function working with cadets. A USAF airman saluted me as we passed each other in the parking lot after the event. I can assure you I wasn't expecting or even hoping for that (in fact I was extremely humbled). I was wearing the corporate uniform with the newly authorized black fleece and ultramarine blue tapes and grade insignia. Since that uniform doesn't require a hat, and I wasn't wearing one, I didn't think I was supposed to return the salute, so I just nodded and said "thank you" as I passed by.

Did I screw up?

I've been in CAP for less than a year, and I didn't serve in the military. The last thing I want to do is show any kind of disrespect to our folks in uniform.

[lordmonar]

You should have returned the salute.

But good on you to nod and accept the greeting.

Remember that airman are taught to "when in doubt, whip it out".  Some bases have forgien or join service officers and unlike here on CAP TALK where we are all experts on the uniforms of every service in existence.....most airman look for shiny on the hat!.

It is NEVER....NEVER disrespectful to return a salute.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Rule of thumb: If someone throws up a salute - return it.

You probably confused the airman with your appearance more than anything, so by at least thanking him, he got the point that you appreciate it, and perhaps aren't allowed to salute.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

This is a bit of a switch...normally we hear of usually apocryphal and baseless rumours about CAP officers trolling for salutes from military personnel!

As I have said, rarely have I got a salute from a USAF Airman/NCO...almost all of them come from other services (even Marines!).

In fact, I had to calm a National Guard soldier at an airshow who was worried he didn't salute me quickly enough, when he wasn't obligated to do so at all.

Veritec, as others have said, return the salute - unless your hands are full, carrying something, then just acknowledge with a friendly greeting,

I don't think how you reacted was inappropriate at all...it would have been had you ignored the Airman...but it is instructive for future reference.

There are some in CAP (and even more in the Coast Guard Auxiliary, in my experience), who believe that we need to stop and explain to military personnel that they don't need to salute us, but I call Bravo Sierra on that...as others have said, return the salute/greeting, and move on.

And, yes, I am grateful whenever I receive a salute, but I am equally grateful just to get a friendly greeting from a military member.

[MIKE]

Since I have a CAPP 151 approved excuse not to salute I usually opt for a cheerful greeting appropriate to the time of day like "Good morning, Airman." and a smile.  I would try to avoid "Thank you." if at all possible... though it is pretty clear that you were ambushed in this case.

[PHall]

Since I have a CAPP 151 approved excuse not to salute I usually opt for a cheerful greeting appropriate to the time of day like "Good morning, Airman." and a smile.  I would try to avoid "Thank you." if at all possible... though it is pretty clear that you were ambushed in this case.

Ambushed??? How is rendering a salute an ambush?  The Airman was simply following that old rule "When in doubt, salute."

It's against the regs (AF and CAP) to fail to render a salute to someone entitled to one.
It's not against the regs to salute someone who is not entitled to one.
Especially if you're following that rule...

[lordmonar]

ambushed in that no one taught him the correct rules for saluting and what to do in the event of receiving one.

[PHall]

ambushed in that no one taught him the correct rules for saluting and what to do in the event of receiving one.

That's still not a "ambush". That's his leadership failing him.

[Eclipse]

It's also a little tunnel visioned - you're going on an active base and it never occurs to you someone might salute?

[PHall]

It's also a little tunnel visioned - you're going on an active base and it never occurs to you someone might salute?

What, you think we don't salute on Reserve Bases?

[LSThiker]

How is rendering a salute an ambush?

When your platoon purposely lines up about every 20 feet to force you to salute each and every Soldier as you walk out the door.  I never realized how long 30 people can be to walk.  Or when those same Soldiers purposefully chase you through a parking lot to make you salute. 

[Eclipse]

It's also a little tunnel visioned - you're going on an active base and it never occurs to you someone might salute?

What, you think we don't salute on Reserve Bases?

Active as in "activity" not who is assigned there. We have an Army base in my state
where we teach rider ed and you can go the entire weekend without ever seeing anyone,
let alone uniforms.

[coudano]

As a newly minted senior member (former cadet), I was a little off-set the first time an enlisted military member saluted me in my CAP senior member uniform. One of those "crystal clear" memories... I was walking back to my car at the parking lot of the BX after eating lunch at burger king in the food court, probably on the way back to wing hq. I think it was a thursday (ha)

Funny thing is that I'm sure I wouldn't have thought a thing of it, if it was a cadet. Or another senior member.
Somehow didn't seem deserving of it from an actual military member.  Technically not deserving of it, anyway. The right answer is not to downplay it or correct the person putting up the salute.


Anyway, after my little moment of introspection there at the parking lot a long time ago, the right answer to an extension of courtesy, respect, (and quite frankly, morale) is courtesy, respect, and morale in turn.


CAP misses the boat on this, I think. I certainly don't think I "got it" until some point after I stopped being a cadet... (which is ridiculous)
We get so tied up in the technicalities of what to do and when to do it (and what NOT to do and when NOT to do it) that I think we forget about the FAR more important _WHY_.



I go out of my way to never avoid a salute (though I don't troll for them either), and I make sure that if one is extended to me, I return it sharply, with eye contact, and a verbal greeting (by name if I know it). Every time.

Last time I passed an airman whose hands were too full to salute (but greeted me anyway) I turned around and went back to the door I just came out of (that airman was headed towards) and opened it so she could get inside without having to shift around what she was carrying.  That's not doctrinal military customs and courtesies.  It's just plain common sense.


It's not a secret code. It's just basic manners.


I've seen too many people duck, hide, avoid, throw some sloppy trash return salute up, mutter, grumble, etc.
When that happens, it just takes someone's attempt at courtesy, respect, and morale, and says in a loud booming voice that it's not a big deal to me. Absolutely unacceptable (bordering on abhorrent) from anyone in a position to receive a salute.

***Not suggesting that the OP did this, i'm talking about other people i've witnessed at other times before, and after.

[coudano]

How is rendering a salute an ambush?

When your platoon purposely lines up about every 20 feet to force you to salute each and every Soldier as you walk out the door. 

Now that's just good fun.   

[coudano]

. dang it

[PHall]

The only time I go trolling for salutes is at Commissioning Ceremonies!  Don't forget your silver dollar!

[vorteks]

Thanks a lot for your replies.

It's also a little tunnel visioned - you're going on an active base and it never occurs to you someone might salute?

No it really doesn't.

I've been on base several times with other CAP officers, and no one has ever been saluted by military personnel that I've ever noticed.

And I've never been saluted by a cadet, either, because I'm never wearing any kind of hat when in the corporate basic uniform outdoors (other seniors who wear the woodland BDUs or dress blues with flight cap are always saluted outdoors). Seems that's what the cadets are taught.

I've completed Level 1 and OBC, and the most relevant guidance I've seen in those materials for this situation is also in CAPP 151 (page 6):

When in uniform, salute officers upon recognition, regardless of
what the officer is wearing. For example, uniformed cadets salute their
squadron commander even if that commander is in civilian attire. In
such instances, the commander typically would verbally acknowledge
the salute, but not return it.

So this does seem to be a gray area at best, judging by the behavior of the cadats, your responses, and also the feedback of several of my AF and Army veteran coworkers I asked today about this situation. There was no disagreement among my ex-military coworkers -- they all said they would not have saluted me in the first place (since I wasn't wearing military insignia or a cover), and second of all, it wouldn't be right for me to return a salute since I wasn't wearing a cover.

So I dunno.

[Eclipse]

it wouldn't be right for me to return a salute since I wasn't wearing a cover.

Where does this nonsense come from?

Whether or not you are wearing a hat has nothing to do with saluting, especially in CAP, and doubly in regards to cadets.

So this does seem to be a gray area at best, judging by the behavior of the cadats, your responses, and also the feedback of several of my AF and Army veteran coworkers I asked today about this situation. There was no disagreement among my ex-military coworkers -- they all said they would not have saluted me in the first place (since I wasn't wearing military insignia or a cover), and second of all, it wouldn't be right for me to return a salute since I wasn't wearing a cover.

They also aren't in a service where 1/2 the membership isn't allowed to wear a uniform that has a required hat,
yet that same population generally outranks those who do.

Their opinion is relevent in a general sense military-to-military, but less so for CAP.

It's real easy.  If you're in >any< CAP uniform, you salute superior officers, military or not.
Don't filter, don't' editorialize about their head covering.  Salute and move on.

I've probably spent as much or more time on an active military base as anyone else in CAP who is not
assigned to NHQ and wasn't prior military, and I can tell you that the one thing that really stands out
inside the gates vs. on the street is the general acknowledgment of everyone else's presence.

People look each other in the eye, salute with proper courtesies, or at least recognize the presence of other beings.
They aren't buried in their phones, or so lost in their own conversations that they are ambivalent to
the rest of the world around them.

It the way everyone should act when they are out in the world, and no more complicated then, as mentioned, common courtesy.

[vorteks]

it wouldn't be right for me to return a salute since I wasn't wearing a cover.

Where does this nonsense come from?

It says in my post where it came from.

[Eclipse]

^Yes, that's my point.  People improperly trained, inexperienced, or more interested in making
some bizarre statements then just saluting and moving on.

When you are in a CAP uniform, especially at a CAP activity, you are not in "civilian attire" in the context of
151, and the expectation is that full courtesies apply at all times.