Um, Lordmonar?

[Stonewall]

PATRICK M. HARRIS, MSgt, CAP
Nellis Composite Squadron

MSgt?  Did you trade officer rank in for your AF rank in CAP?

[Extremepredjudice]

Sir, couldn't this be sent in a PM?

[Stonewall]

Of course, but I'm sure others may be interested, too.  If it's personal or if he dosn't wish to discuss his decision, he can PM me.  I'm pretty sure it's not a big deal.

I thought about doing it myself.  Lt Col to MSgt...I like it!

[lordmonar]

Yep!  You are the second person to notice!

I was on track to get my silver oak leaves in January.....and I thought.....there are thousands of CAP Lt Cols......I can be different! 

[Extremepredjudice]

"I'm not part of your system!"

[abdsp51]

Noticed myself.

[RogueLeader]

Yep!  You are the second person to notice!

I was on track to get my silver oak leaves in January.....and I thought.....there are thousands of CAP Lt Cols......I can be different! 

I noticed a while back. I just didn't think its a big deal.

Of course, but I'm sure others may be interested, too.  If it's personal or if he dosn't wish to discuss his decision, he can PM me.  I'm pretty sure it's not a big deal.

I thought about doing it myself.  Lt Col to MSgt...I like it!

That's what Trung Si Ma did.

[Eclipse]

Yep!  You are the second person to notice!

I was on track to get my silver oak leaves in January.....and I thought.....there are thousands of CAP Lt Cols......I can be different! 

You should have pulled gotten the Oaks and then changed.

[ColonelJack]

.....there are thousands of CAP Lt Cols......

Suddenly I don't feel so special any more ...

*sniff*

Jack

[Angus]

If we had a Senior NCO program that those of us who weren't in the service could take part in, I'd turn in my Train Tracks in a heart beat.

[ZigZag911]

Actually, I had noticed, too; since we know LM is a retired Air Force NCO, I wasn't really surprised...kind of makes sense in a way, as he says, there are thousands of  lt cols in CAP, but only a few MSgts!

[lordmonar]

If we had a Senior NCO program that those of us who weren't in the service could take part in, I'd turn in my Train Tracks in a heart beat.

I'm working on that.

[Stonewall]

Do you wear the same chevrons on BDUs that you do on blues? Or subdued?

[lordmonar]

Do you wear the same chevrons on BDUs that you do on blues? Or subdued?

full color.  It looks like hell....but is consitant with the rest of the BDU uniform.

[MSG Mac]

I've considered going for SMSgt, but cannot justify it until National HQ actually comes up with a SM NCO program.

[PHall]

I did the NCO thing for a couple of years then decided to go back to the officer grade.
It wasn't worth the hassles.  (Example: Was told I could no longer be a Primary TAC Officer at Encampment since Officers can't work for NCO's.) {Junior Officers have been working for NCO's for centuries.}
Another SNCO in CAWG just recently went to officer grade for the exact same reason.

They want you to run stuff because you have the experience, but then they have a heart attack because you would be in charge of "officers".

[Eclipse]

^ Wow is that BS.  Not to mention all the Col's working for butter bars.

For the record, I would cheer the day that an NCO wearing his stripes from another service rises to the point of Wing CC and
they have to figure out what to do.

[FW]

^ For the record, I would cheer the day that an NCO wearing his stripes from another service rises to the point of Wing CC and
they have to figure out what to do.

It's not really a problem.  By regulation, Wing Commanders are promoted to Col. No if's, ands, or Chevrons...

[bosshawk]

Isn't the current National CC a retired AF SNCO?  True, he doesn't wear the stripes but WTH?

[lordmonar]

Isn't the current National CC a retired AF SNCO?  True, he doesn't wear the stripes but WTH?

IIFC we had a Active Duty SNCO serving as a wing or regional command not too long ago.

Here's the kicker.....someone does not want to deal with me because I am a SNCO.....no sweat of my back.

[Major Carrales]

Sir, couldn't this be sent in a PM?

Actually...was the epic fail "smack down" really necessary?  It seems a little presumptuous.

I mean...and I want you to think about this.

Now, because you presumed and came across as you did...the next few posts you make will be tainted by people recalling that you had to presume you had some authority to send people off to PM.

This is a good one for everyone on here...when people make less than civil posts (be they rants, and hominem attacks, or other insolence) credibility tends to drop on other more important issues.

[Private Investigator]

I've considered going for SMSgt, but cannot justify it until National HQ actually comes up with a SM NCO program.

I considered just being a SSgt and just having fun. I doubt NHQ can figure out a SM NCO program, JMHO   

[flyboy53]

PATRICK M. HARRIS, MSgt, CAP
Nellis Composite Squadron

MSgt?  Did you trade officer rank in for your AF rank in CAP?

Considered this myself once.

There's a lot more prestigue being a senior NCO than a CAP officer.

Congrats, good luck and remember your new role, Sergeant

[cadetesman]

I think it's pretty cool that you became an SNCO, I mean, honestly, this is just an observation, but anyone can put in the time and effort and become a Lt. Col, while an SNCO is so much different.


It's silly though, how only "officers" can be in charge of things and how some 2nd or 1st Lt is in charge of an SNCO.... the SNCO, who has been in CAP forever, and could easily be a Lt. Col, is not allowed to have authority, just because they want to display their service in a unique way...

On an unrelated note, could an SNCO theoretically become a Wing CC?

[Extremepredjudice]

Yes, but they would become a colonel.

[RogueLeader]

I think it's pretty cool that you became an SNCO, I mean, honestly, this is just an observation, but anyone can put in the time and effort and become a Lt. Col, while an SNCO is so much different.


It's silly though, how only "officers" can be in charge of things and how some 2nd or 1st Lt is in charge of an SNCO.... the SNCO, who has been in CAP forever, and could easily be a Lt. Col, is not allowed to have authority, just because they want to display their service in a unique way...

On an unrelated note, could an SNCO theoretically become a Wing CC?

A (former) SNCO is our Nat/cc.

[PHall]

A (former) SNCO is our Nat/cc.

He's not a former SNCO, he's a Retired SNCO. There is a difference.

[RogueLeader]

A (former) SNCO is our Nat/cc.

He's not a former SNCO, he's a Retired SNCO. There is a difference.

Whoops. My bad. That's what I meant., just not what I said.

[Eclipse]

Yes, but they would become a colonel.

Cite please.

That was my point.  It has, to my knowledge, never been tested.  Maj Gen Carr had long-before decided to
pursue the standard CAP grade system.

I don't know of any regulation that requires a wing CC to be a Colonel, officer, or anything other than a SM in good standing.
It's been tradition that the appointments are accepted, but where's the requirement?

[Extremepredjudice]

They would become a col. at the beginning of their term. See: CAPR 35-2, 3-2, item B.

[Eclipse]

Nowhere does it say it is a requirement. The word used is "may". The specific section you cited simply indicates the timing.

[ßτε]

Nowhere does it say it is a requirement. The word used is "may". The specific section you cited simply indicates the timing.

Actually, the word "may" is not in section B.

b. Wing Commander. Promotion to the temporary grade of colonel is concurrent with appointment as wing commander. The permanent grade of colonel is contingent upon the recommendation of the region commander upon the wing commander's satisfactory completion of assignment as wing commander.

I really don't see any option here.

[FW]

Nowhere does it say it is a requirement. The word used is "may". The specific section you cited simply indicates the timing.

Actually, the word "may" is not in section B.

b. Wing Commander. Promotion to the temporary grade of colonel is concurrent with appointment as wing commander. The permanent grade of colonel is contingent upon the recommendation of the region commander upon the wing commander's satisfactory completion of assignment as wing commander.

I really don't see any option here.

Correct.  All "Corporate Officers" are given the grade of "Colonel" upon appointment to the office they are assigned.  Elected officers are given the grade of, either Brig Gen or Maj Gen; depending on the office they were elected.  That may all change in August however, for now, that is the rule. 

[AlphaSigOU]

Way back in the day WIWAC I remember new wing commanders were first appointed to the grade of lieutenant colonel (if they weren't already at that grade) and served in that grade at least six months 'on probation' before getting their 'chickens'. Even then, the chickens weren't considered permanent until successful completion of their term of office.

[ol'fido]

I think it's pretty cool that you became an SNCO, I mean, honestly, this is just an observation, but anyone can put in the time and effort and become a Lt. Col, while an SNCO is so much different.


It's silly though, how only "officers" can be in charge of things and how some 2nd or 1st Lt is in charge of an SNCO.... the SNCO, who has been in CAP forever, and could easily be a Lt. Col, is not allowed to have authority, just because they want to display their service in a unique way...

On an unrelated note, could an SNCO theoretically become a Wing CC?

You will find very few SNCOs who feel that a 2nd or 1st Lt is in charge of them. They may be in "command" of them but seldom are they in charge of them.

"2nd Lt goes into the 1SG's office and says, "1SG your gonna do this, this, and this, and your this is how your gonna do it."

1SG says, "With all due respect, Lieutenant, get the [expletive] out of my office and stay the [expletive] outta my office."

2nd Lt runs to the CO's office and tells him what the 1SG said. CO looks at him, shakes his head, and says, "Well then, Lt, stay the [expletive] out of the 1SG's office." 2nd LT goes into a corner and pouts.

[Eclipse]

All well and good in the military, not likely to mean anything different in CAP.

Changing bars into stripes won't change who has the real experience, who is really in command, nor the fact that the vast majority
of members don't even understand the theoretical paradigm, let alone have a clue what it's supposed to mean in CAP, which is zero.

And further to this, in CAP, the butterbars aren't likely to be 21 and afraid of their shadows, they are just as likely to be as, or more, experienced
than the those members wearing stripes who chose not to accept an officer appointment.  And since both the officers and the NCOs both have
to empty the trash cans, the whole argument doesn't mean much.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And further to this, in CAP, the butterbars aren't likely to be 21 and afraid of their shadows

[PHall]

All well and good in the military, not likely to mean anything different in CAP.

Changing bars into stripes won't change who has the real experience, who is really in command, nor the fact that the vast majority
of members don't even understand the theoretical paradigm, let alone have a clue what it's supposed to mean in CAP, which is zero.

And further to this, in CAP, the butterbars aren't likely to be 21 and afraid of their shadows, they are just as likely to be as, or more, experienced
than the those members wearing stripes who chose not to accept an officer appointment.  And since both the officers and the NCOs both have
to empty the trash cans, the whole argument doesn't mean much.

In my last Air Force Reserve unit the officers (pilots) emptied the trash cans in their office with no complaints.
Someone had to do it and since it was their office...

[Eclipse]

Kinda missed the point...

[PHall]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

[Eclipse]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Missed.

[lordmonar]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Rank means nothing in CAP

[PHall]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Rank means nothing in CAP

Didn't mean much in an Airlift Squadron either.

[lordmonar]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Rank means nothing in CAP

Didn't mean much in an Airlift Squadron either.

....Capt riding lets Seat, Major in the right, SMSgt sitting in the jump seat and a Lt Col at the Nav Stations....two SRA and a SSgt in back......and SSgt riding as a flying crew chief.....who's airplane is it! 

[PHall]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Rank means nothing in CAP

Didn't mean much in an Airlift Squadron either.

....Capt riding lets Seat, Major in the right, SMSgt sinning in the jump seat and a Lt Col at the Nav Stations....two SRA and a SSgt in back......and SSgt riding as a flying crew chief.....who's airplane is it! 

The SMSgt is the Flight Engineer and what's a Navigator? And it's the Engineer's plane until they land, then it's the Crew Chief's.

[Nolan Teel]

Yep!  You are the second person to notice!

I was on track to get my silver oak leaves in January.....and I thought.....there are thousands of CAP Lt Cols......I can be different! 

Ive ever met you but I like you! Wheres that darn like button at...

[lordmonar]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Rank means nothing in CAP

Didn't mean much in an Airlift Squadron either.

....Capt riding lets Seat, Major in the right, SMSgt sinning in the jump seat and a Lt Col at the Nav Stations....two SRA and a SSgt in back......and SSgt riding as a flying crew chief.....who's airplane is it! 

The SMSgt is the Flight Engineer and what's a Navigator? And it's the Engineer's plane until they land, then it's the Crew Chief's.

Yep!  But only one of them is called the Aircraft Commander! 

[ßτε]

... SMSgt sinning in the jump seat ...

What exactly is the SMSgt doing in the jump seat?

[lordmonar]

... SMSgt sinning in the jump seat ...

What exactly is the SMSgt doing in the jump seat?

Well.....if you need it explained to you.....you just won't understand!   

Fixed.

[PHall]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Rank means nothing in CAP

Didn't mean much in an Airlift Squadron either.

....Capt riding lets Seat, Major in the right, SMSgt sinning in the jump seat and a Lt Col at the Nav Stations....two SRA and a SSgt in back......and SSgt riding as a flying crew chief.....who's airplane is it! 

The SMSgt is the Flight Engineer and what's a Navigator? And it's the Engineer's plane until they land, then it's the Crew Chief's.

Yep!  But only one of them is called the Aircraft Commander! 

Who, when the Master Caution Light comes on looks over his right shoulder and says "Hey Eng".

[lordmonar]

Kinda missed the point...

And your point was?

Rank means nothing in CAP

Didn't mean much in an Airlift Squadron either.

....Capt riding lets Seat, Major in the right, SMSgt sinning in the jump seat and a Lt Col at the Nav Stations....two SRA and a SSgt in back......and SSgt riding as a flying crew chief.....who's airplane is it! 

The SMSgt is the Flight Engineer and what's a Navigator? And it's the Engineer's plane until they land, then it's the Crew Chief's.

Yep!  But only one of them is called the Aircraft Commander! 

Who, when the Master Caution Light comes on looks over his right shoulder and says "Hey Eng".

Yes...yes....I agree with you.  Exactly.  That is my point!  The Capt may be the "aircraft commander"...but he know who is in charge....and when.....and so does the SMSgt!

[Major Carrales]

Point of order...this is one of those sorts of discussions that PHall would usually break up with a pithy comment due to issues of relevance.

What's good for the GOOSE...and all that!

[AlphaSigOU]

Yep!  You are the second person to notice!

I was on track to get my silver oak leaves in January.....and I thought.....there are thousands of CAP Lt Cols......I can be different! 

Ive ever met you but I like you! Wheres that darn like button at...

And he's in my squadron... RMR can't have him! 

[PHall]

Point of order...this is one of those sorts of discussions that PHall would usually break up with a pithy comment due to issues of relevance.

What's good for the GOOSE...and all that!

Please provide an example or shut it, your choice.

I know Pat and we're just having a little fun. Sorry if it doesn't do anything for you in South Texas.

[Major Carrales]

Point of order...this is one of those sorts of discussions that PHall would usually break up with a pithy comment due to issues of relevance.

What's good for the GOOSE...and all that!

Please provide an example or shut it, your choice.

I know Pat and we're just having a little fun. Sorry if it doesn't do anything for you in South Texas.

Laugh out Loud...your doing it now.  Of sorts.

Here is one you did to try to end a conversation about... "VELCRO"

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15515.msg280387#msg280387

Here is one on "Banning" threadsters where you chimed in to kill it after it went back and forth a lot...

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15428.msg278604#msg278604

Here is one one head wear where it was going back and forth and you chimed in with something non squitr to "break it up" or try to...

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15116.msg272079#msg272079

I could go on...

You have a long history of seemingly "have had enough" and then chime in to change the subject when it veers or point out tangents.  Don't be ashamed...be proud.  Don't be denied...HAVE PRIDE!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

This reminds me of a story I read about a British bomber that had to land at an American airbase in (I think) Cairo during WWII.

Three man crew - pilot/plane captain was a Flight Sergeant; second pilot was a Pilot Officer (second looie equivalent) and the other pilot was a Flying Officer (first looie equivalent).

The USAAF ground crew chief asked who was in charge of the plane and where the crew should be billeted, and the F/S said "I'm the plane captain; just put me in the Sergeants' Mess."

The puzzled USAAF guy said "what about the other two?"

The F/S said, "they are both officers."

The USAAF guy walked away, muttering about the peculiarities of the Brits.

[NIN]

Helicopter crewchiefs (and on Chinooks, FEs) own their aircraft. The pilots are merely allowed to manipulate the controls.

The phrase "put it on the ground" is never followed by "why?" from the front office until the wheels / skids are back on terra firma.

But the Army is odd that way.