CAP members to get Army awards

[davedove]

However, a valid argument could be, that CAP is first and formost an ES organization.  AE and CP are important but are secondary to ES.  With that said, I understand that Iowa is addressing the CP problem and is taking steps to intragrate the CP into their wing centric operations.

Each of the three missions are important, it's just that ES tends to get the most notice.  A lot of people join just to work with cadets, and I'm sure there must be some who are only interested in AE.

[RogueLeader]

Notify your sq/cc or higher if needed.

[flyguy06]

Of what? He's quite aware. Like I said in another thread. You cant MAKE them be involved.

[RogueLeader]

Of what? He's quite aware. Like I said in another thread. You cant MAKE them be involved.

Ok, I didn't know if you CC knew.  If what they are doing is wrong, let the IG know.  Maybe if they get "profficency" flights suspended, they might get more involved to get them back.  Just an idea.

[lordmonar]

I would disagree that CAP is first and foremost an ES organization. Where did you get that from? When I took level 1 in 1990, they said that ALL three missions were on the same level. (The whole three bladed propellar thing) Again, I joined CAP because I was interested in becomming a pilot in the Air Force. I had no interetes in going to the woods. (ironically I ended up joining the Army in the Infantry and I basically lived in the woods).

Right....I know what it says on paper, but we all know that it is not so.  AE has always been the red headed step son of CAP.  Cadet Squadrons may or may not do any ES (in fact overseas squadrons are forbidden to do ES).  Senior squadrons tend to focus on just the flying part of ES.  

Is that the way it should be?  Probably not.  But it is the way it is.

I have 23 people in my Suadron. 2 are ES qualiied (me and another guy). Everyone else is here to fly or work with cadets. Although I am ES qualified. I am not active. My main concern is mentoring to youths. No I have to disagree that cadet programs are secondary missions. We spend a lot of money on National SPecialActivities, flight encampments Oshkosh and miliary Orientation rides in military aircraft.

Okay I agree with you to a point...but...we spend most of our budget on ES related operations/support.  And again we are talking about Iowa again.  They formed their plan to become a better ES provider to their state and to the USAF.  They are focusing on their ES mission.  They have admitted they are focusing on the ES mission and that their CP mission is lacking...and they are working on that.

[Major Carrales]

I have not read all the replies to this, but I would like to make an observation.

Anytime an outside organization recognizes CAP, be it the RED CROSS, Salvation Army and (MOST especially) the ARMED FORCES; I get a bit excited.  It is a sign that we are on task and serve a useful purpose that other see.  It's all about pride.

Iowa...God Bless it!!! 

[flyguy06]

Oh, well, I dont know anything about Iowa. Never been there.

[RogueLeader]

Come and visit some time, we'd be glad to have you.  If you want a ride from the airport to our unit, I could arange it, or even come to our WTA.  That way you can see our new model.

[Nick Critelli]

The gentleman raises a good point about CAP members who do not want to do ES. Regardless of what we want or how we think about CAP we must recognize that it is Congress that tells us who we are and what we are going to do.  The Iowa program recognized that we just started with the premise that federal law makes two demands: 10 USC 9441 (USGov Missions, so called "A" missions) and 36 USC 40302 (state and local missions, so called "B" and "C" missions). We had to establish an foundation that would fund the state organization,  be able to recruit the right people to do the missions, provide adequate training and provide for survivability. Once created the structure, procedure and operating protocol (that you have heard about ad nauseum ) we focused our attention upon  and we were better situated to comply with the statutes.  What our our missions?  We often rattle them off as ES, CP and AE. Actually that is incorrect.  Congress has tasked us in our Title 36 mode with a much broader mission set.  Let me reprint it for you directly from the federal statute itself.  The purpose of CAP is: 36 USC 40302

"(1) To provide an organization to--

(A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy; and

(B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.

(2) To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.

(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.

(4) To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.

(5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs and missions."

That is what the CAP mission is and each Wing has an obligation to ensure that it know the law and has programs in place that will fulfill the requirements of the law.  Do we do a good job of it? Usually we do but it could be better. Some Wings because of limited resources can focus more attention on some rather than other aspects of the missions.  Other Wings are better funded and organized and can focus on all aspects.  Here in Iowa we are building program that will allow us to focus on all aspects of the law.  But it won't happen overnight. We had to triage the problem which required that we first focus on Emergency Services and Disaster Relief.   Our position was that matters involving life and death must take precedence over the promotion of aviation, etc.  But that doesn't mean that we are not mindful of the other aspects of our Title 36 charge.  Our 'ES get strong strategy' has been successful and now we are starting to turn our attention to the other missions.  Next on our list if the Cadet Program.  I am ashamed and embarrassed to admit that only 0.000145% of the young people in Iowa take advantage of CAP's incredible Cadet Program.  Our new Job Number One is to change that.  Keeping in mind that it has been this way for over half a century, I feel it will take us about 2 years to change it.  Hopefully by this time next year we will have doubled our numbers...which is still a miserable showing but it is an improvement.

AE is also a critical federal mission long ignored. We have just settled upon an AE strategy that hopefully will benefit CP and external AE.  It's still in the final stages of development. I had hoped to roll it out by March 07 but that has proven to be overly ambitious. 

So, as you can see there is a heck of a lot more to CAP than Emergency Services. The beauty of it all is that if you can get all three in sync they enhance  one another.

We have a strategy to bring life back into our CP and AE programs.

Nick Critelli

PS to DNall and RiverAux:   Notice I am using different termology, Title 10 and Title 36.  Stick to federal law and all will be made clear. Drop back to October 29, 2000 termology and everything gets confused.  There are NO corporate missions in Iowa.  There are Title 36 missions.  We do not work for corporations.

[RiverAux]

I don't know what you can do about it, but If I was your Wing Commander I would consider your squadron a prime candidate to lose its plane.  I'm sure he could find another unit willing to do ES work with it in addition to cadet o-rides, etc. 

[lordmonar]

I don't know what you can do about it, but If I was your Wing Commander I would consider your squadron a prime candidate to lose its plane.  I'm sure he could find another unit willing to do ES work with it in addition to cadet o-rides, etc. 

Hear! Hear!  And that is who we handle the "flying club" mentality!

Proficiency flight should be to make sure you are ready to fulfil your ES and AE (that is o-ride) responsibilities, not for personal gratification.

[Hammer]

However, a valid argument could be, that CAP is first and formost an ES organization.  AE and CP are important but are secondary to ES.  With that said, I understand that Iowa is addressing the CP problem and is taking steps to intragrate the CP into their wing centric operations.

Each of the three missions are important, it's just that ES tends to get the most notice.  A lot of people join just to work with cadets, and I'm sure there must be some who are only interested in AE.

I'm one of those interested in only AE.  I got enough of CP from three years in AFJROTC.  As far as ES...if i wanted that kind of stuff, I'd join the Arrmy and be a Ranger, and I meant no offence to anyone who's earned the RANGER Tab.

[flyguy06]

I don't know what you can do about it, but If I was your Wing Commander I would consider your squadron a prime candidate to lose its plane.  I'm sure he could find another unit willing to do ES work with it in addition to cadet o-rides, etc. 

Squadrons do not have planes. There is no plane near our squadron. Planes are startegically located throughout the state. People assume that because there is a plane near where they meeet, the aircraft belongs to that unit. Any member in the state can fly any plane inthe state. They dont have to go through any squadron to do that. AT any rate, ther eis NO plane near my unit. We meet in a church

[flyguy06]

I wouldnt necessarily say the AE mission is ignored. We have a strong voice in NCASE and we wrk with local school systems helping to develop AE courses in school. It may not be all sexy and high profile but we make a dent I believe

[lordmonar]

Squadrons do not have planes. There is no plane near our squadron. Planes are startegically located throughout the state. People assume that because there is a plane near where they meeet, the aircraft belongs to that unit. Any member in the state can fly any plane inthe state. They dont have to go through any squadron to do that. AT any rate, ther eis NO plane near my unit. We meet in a church

Well if the pilots from your unit are eating up wing funds to get proficiency training and not maintaining their ES qualifications...then the wing king can ground them just as easily that is instruct all his flight release officers not to allow them to fly and not approve any of the mission numbers.

[flyguy06]

They dont have ES qualifications to maintain.  SOunds like a good idea to me though. But then they would just quit.

[RiverAux]

If there is a group of pilots who do not want to do ES and there is another group of pilots who are willing to do ES as well as other legitimate flights (o-rides, etc.), then they need to go to the bottom of the heap in regards to access to airplanes. 

But then they would just quit.

If they aren't contributing, as you implied, then let them.  There is no advantage to CAP in having them fly CAP planes if they're not serving a real CAP purpose in doing so.  It may make the Wing look better by having more hours put on the plane, but thats about it. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with some units becoming more focused on certain CAP missions over another.  Sometimes you just don't have the manpower or equipment to do it all.  However, if your unit gets that focused on certain activities it has to realize that it will always lose out in competition with other squadrons for equipment and funding when those other squadrons are more well-rounded. 

There are NO corporate missions in Iowa.  There are Title 36 missions.  We do not work for corporations.

CAPR 60-1 designates certain missions as CAP Corporate missions.  We do not work for corporations but we ARE a corporation so using that term is perfectly accurate and appropriate.  You will note that Air Force assigned missions also fit perfectly well into the Title 36 purposes for CAP so using "Title 36 mission" can easily imply an AFAM, so the term is not a synonym for CAP corporate mission.

[DNall]

If there is a group of pilots who do not want to do ES and there is another group of pilots who are willing to do ES as well as other legitimate flights (o-rides, etc.), then they need to go to the bottom of the heap in regards to access to airplanes. 

But then they would just quit.

If they aren't contributing, as you implied, then let them.  There is no advantage to CAP in having them fly CAP planes if they're not serving a real CAP purpose in doing so.  It may make the Wing look better by having more hours put on the plane, but thats about it. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with some units becoming more focused on certain CAP missions over another.  Sometimes you just don't have the manpower or equipment to do it all.  However, if your unit gets that focused on certain activities it has to realize that it will always lose out in competition with other squadrons for equipment and funding when those other squadrons are more well-rounded. 

There are NO corporate missions in Iowa.  There are Title 36 missions.  We do not work for corporations.

CAPR 60-1 designates certain missions as CAP Corporate missions.  We do not work for corporations but we ARE a corporation so using that term is perfectly accurate and appropriate.  You will note that Air Force assigned missions also fit perfectly well into the Title 36 purposes for CAP so using "Title 36 mission" can easily imply an AFAM, so the term is not a synonym for CAP corporate mission.

I got nothing but respect for the guy that does o-flights but sticks to teh ground on the ES side. He should be able to fly prof as well, there's just no SAREx opportunities for him so he's going to go deeper into the pockets to keep up his prof. Obviously your wing Ops folks should be watching the situation & know what's going on. We have a gillion pilots in our wing & that's still a fairly manageable task.

I also got no prob at all with people that don't contribute quitting with boot in butt if need be. I'm quite tolerant of needing to take a step back or even time off. But if you want to abuse the system for your own gain & not pay for it with your direct service in the area those funds were intended for, then later.

I like that they call it "Title 36 missions" Title 10 spells out our federal roles on behalf of the AF. By definition, any service to the AF is done under Title 10. Title 36 just contains our corporate charter, and that's where the latitude to do corporate missions comes from, so let em role. It sounds good. Just so the guard isn't confused about it our title 10/36 roles versus their title 10/32 roles, which could be easily done.