"Away-from-squadron" recruitment

[AvroArrow]

My squadron has come up with an idea of recruitment: having trustworthy Cadets going to their school in their BDU (as being in camo and boots would spark some interest, especially if the uniform follow the 39-1 very strictly; you know, perfect tapes, rolled sleeves, rank placement, etc.) and/or doing a presentation about CAP with at least one Senior Member (each of our Cadets, except for two twins and two friends, come from different schools and wearing the uniform may or may not be on the same day as the presentation [if there is one]. Also, the presentation may actually have more than one Cadet and/or Senior Member)

Assuming there is permission given from the Squadron Commander and schools' principals, is this style of recruitment even allowed/possible according to some sort of regulation that CAP has?

[jeders]

Yes, recruiting in the schools is allowed by CAP.

However, if you're going to wear a uniform to school, wear blues, not BDUs. Blues look more professional, and show off more attention/interest getting bling.

But of course, it all has to be approved by the principal and Squadron Commander.

[flyguy06]

I have done that plenty of times in the past. Maybe because I am in the Southeast, but why would you need permission to wear a uniform? They are cloths like anything else. As long as it doesnt violate school dress code policy I dont know why you would need permission?

[Eclipse]

No reason you can't do this, I concur service dress is more appropriate, unless you're doing a presentation and want a couple of each to show the different variations.

[Eclipse]

I have done that plenty of times in the past. Maybe because I am in the Southeast, but why would you need permission to wear a uniform? They are cloths like anything else. As long as it doesnt violate school dress code policy I dont know why you would need permission?

Wearing the uniform to school requires the unit CC's permission for CAP, and many schools are very reticent these days about allowing any military recruiters inside, and that reticence spills out onto us.

A number of schools in my area will not allow any CAP recruiting activities at all - (and others have JROTC programs, so go figure.)

And the above also assumes the school doesn't have a uniform or dress code, which increasingly, schools in this area are doing.

[MIKE]

I wouldn't have cadets wearing service dress uniform for recruiting during a school day.  Short-sleeve light blue shirt/blouse service uniform is more likely.

2-1. a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve
light blue blouse/shirt. These uniforms are authorized for year-round wear. ...

^ Learn.  [/nitpick]

[AvroArrow]

Really, the only problem with Service Uniforms is of two things,

In my squadron's local area of schools, people are more interested and more inclined (for some bizarro reason) with the camo and boots versus shiny dress shoes and ribbons. I have no clue why, but it seems to work out more that way.

Also, since I'm a SSgt, and haven't been in the program for TOO long, I don't have a lot of ribbons, and I'm confident a fellow cadet wouldn't be allowed to skip school to go to another school to recruitment for CAP. Otherwise, I'd be somehwat more inclined to wear even my Service Dress Uniform (assuming I wouldn't boil because of all the extra layers of clothing).

[MIKE]

Wearing the BDU has the flight characteristics of a brick in many schools if they'll let you in at all... It shouldn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why.

Also, since I'm a SSgt, and haven't been in the program for TOO long, I don't have a lot of ribbons, ...

Ribbons are optional on the long and short sleeved shirt/blouse. 

[AvroArrow]

Wearing the BDU has the flight characteristics of a brick in many schools if they'll let you in at all... It shouldn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why.

Also, since I'm a SSgt, and haven't been in the program for TOO long, I don't have a lot of ribbons, ...

Ribbons are optional on the long and short sleeved shirt/blouse. 

Sorry, I forgot    Fix0red - MIKE

[AvroArrow]

Wearing the BDU has the flight characteristics of a brick in many schools if they'll let you in at all... It shouldn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why

What did you mean, Mike

(sorry for the double-post)

[Eclipse]

In my squadron's local area of schools, people are more interested and more inclined (for some bizarro reason) with the camo and boots versus shiny dress shoes and ribbons. I have no clue why, but it seems to work out more that way.

Kids like to play "Army", and that's the impression you give them wearing the BDU's for recruiting.

I suppose if the unit has a highly-active ES program, or its an ES-related conference we're recruiting at, that's one thing, otherwise it gives the wrong message from the start.

[DC]

I agree here, you will make a much better impression on the people you want to recruit by wearing a sharp looking service uniform, like SS with a tie, than in BDUs. If you can have several cadets there, it might not be a bad idea to have several uniforms though, to show some of the range. Maybe have your SM in Service Dress, yourself in ss blues, and another cadet in BDUs.

As for only having the ribbons of a C/SSgt, don't worry about it. Chances are the people you are talking to won't know what they are to begin with.. As a C/SSgt, you have at least four, more if you've been to Encampment and been really active. Even the basic four is respectable. Never be embarassed by not having a lot of ribbons, they're less important that you think.

[MIKE]

Wearing the BDU has the flight characteristics of a brick in many schools if they'll let you in at all... It shouldn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why

What did you mean, Mike

(sorry for the double-post)

Another way to say the idea won't fly far... will meet resistance and fail.

[AvroArrow]

Well, like I said before, I don't think I could convince a squadron-mate's parents to let him skip school just in the name of CAP (thought that'd be nice..)
Now, if I could, then we could display the uniforms to show the variety, sure. That'd be an awesome idea.

I'll have to think about which uniform though, especially because I don't have a Service DRESS Uniform yet. I'll try to get the coat soon.

Eclipse: Are you saying because kids like to play "Army," the BDU might come off as a bit cocky

[MIKE]

Eclipse: Are you saying because kids like to play "Army," the BDU might come off as a bit cocky

Columbine

[DC]

Eclipse: Are you saying because kids like to play "Army," the BDU might come off as a bit cocky

Columbine

Or immature. If you make the effort to wear and take care of a dress uniform, people know you are serious. If they just see a buch of kids running around in camo some people will assume you are just out to play soldier...

As for Columbine, there are those that will always associate the military with mindless killing, there is nothing you can do about them.

[Pylon]

The new CAPP 52-9, Cadet Great Start pamphlet has handy tips for securing permission to recruit in schools (including a template letter to the school administrator) as well as steps and tips for doing the actual recruiting.

[stratoflyer]

Well folks, I'd have to say that as a cadet I've worn my short sleeve blues to  schools numerous times and it just seems to work well and fit into the school atmosphere.

At my old high school, there's a NJROTC unit and a few of those cadets are also CAP cadets. The cadre at NJROTC view us in a positive light, and I've made it a point to stress the fact of cooperation between us, not competition. They've agreed. And the NJROTC cadets wear their uniforms in school twice a week. So in this situation, wearing a CAP uniform to school would be no factor.  And I've seen military recruiters walk in and out of that school many times. No biggie. Guess folks down here don't really fret too much about that sort of thing. Then again, it is Miami. 

[AvroArrow]

alright...

So, let's say I were "to go solo" and go in Service Uniform. There's one problem (one I get passed the lack of a lot of ribbons that I have ); I have a tie, but no "tie device."

'Think that'll matter a whole lot?   

[MIKE]

Don't wear a tie... Though they are mandatory with the long sleeve shirt combo.  Go short sleeve, no tie and no ribbons if you are insecure about 'em.

[stratoflyer]

^I concur.

[lordmonar]

Tie tack/tie bar are not manditory......but they make your tie look better.

As for BDU vs Blues.....a lot of that depends on the program you are trying to sell.

Blues are the offical uniform of the cadet program and therefore we often default to that uniform when recruiting.

If you have a strong ES program and that is what the potential cadets in your area want....BDUs are the way to go.

Either way....make sure that the school principle knows what you are doing and what  you are going to wear and of course get your squadron CC's permission.

[MIKE]

Tie tack/tie bar are not manditory......but they make your tie look better.

MIKE requires proof of this assertion using CAPM 39-1 as published.

[AvroArrow]

Ok.

Thanks.

[jimmydeanno]

I used to do recruiting events all the time at schools WIWAC.  We tried a couple of different uniforms.

BDUs:  The 12-14 year old boys were really interested interested in what we had to say.  The girls, not so much.  We were talking about ES stuff and flying, etc.  It just didn't seem to spark their interest.  These events we recruited most of our ES addicted cadets.

SS Blues:  The 12-14 year old boys weren't too keen on having to "dress up."  The teenage girls were more interested when presented with that uniform because they wouldn't have to get "dirty."  This uniform lead to an increase in the female population of the squadron and they "accepted" BDUs.  We only wore BDUs twice a month at meetings, so it was ok.  The girls recruited during these events were high-speed and the boys were a little slow on the uptake.

Service Dress:  The 14-18 year old boys became interested because they saw it as a girl magnet.  The 14-18 year old girls, not so much interested in the program as they were the person wearing the uniform.  Got many girls that joined just to meet boys - many didn't make very good cadets and left later on.  I don't know if I can attribute it to the uniform or the prospect pool. I was only 15 at the time and don't remember much about it.

Me?  I was recruited by someone wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

[jimmydeanno]

9. Tie Tack or Bar: Center tie tack or tie bar (CAP crest, Air Force coat of arms, Wing and Star/Hap Arnold
design or grade insignia) between bottom edge of knot and bottom (tip) of tie, if tie is worn.

[DC]

alright...

So, let's say I were "to go solo" and go in Service Uniform. There's one problem (one I get passed the lack of a lot of ribbons that I have ); I have a tie, but no "tie device."

'Think that'll matter a whole lot?   

Probably not, but next time you are ordering stuff from Vanguard I'd get one. If you decide to not wear a tie, make sure you iron down your collar so it doesn't go off an do it's own thing...

[RiverAux]

I strongly believe in using the BDU for cadet recruiting, partially for some of the reasons  jimmydeano mentioned.  But, perhaps I'm just sticking with my own thoughts from way back in my cadet years.  I never had any interest at all in anything other than the ODs.

One of the biggest things we can "sell" to cadets is the ES program.  That is the major separation between us and the JROTC programs.  Assuming you've got a local ES program that includes cadets, go with it. 

However, whichever uniform you use, be sure to have photos in your recruiting display of cadets in the other ones.  That way you cover all your bases. 

I'm not a big fan of wearing multiple uniforms at recruiting events.  It dilutes your message somewhat and makes you spend time explaining why people are wearing different uniforms instead of spending your limited time explaining why they should join CAP.   

[flyguy06]

I have done that plenty of times in the past. Maybe because I am in the Southeast, but why would you need permission to wear a uniform? They are cloths like anything else. As long as it doesnt violate school dress code policy I dont know why you would need permission?

Wearing the uniform to school requires the unit CC's permission for CAP, and many schools are very reticent these days about allowing any military recruiters inside, and that reticence spills out onto us.

A number of schools in my area will not allow any CAP recruiting activities at all - (and others have JROTC programs, so go figure.)

And the above also assumes the school doesn't have a uniform or dress code, which increasingly, schools in this area are doing.

Ok, I understand, but we are not talking about a recruiter. We are talking about a boy or girl who actually goes to school there everyday. Why would they need permission to wear a CAP uniform to school? Whats more specaial abot that then regular cloths? They have to go to school and they have to wear something. Whats the difference from them choosing to wear jeans and and t shirt and choosing to wear a CAP uniform? I dont think any school dres code prohibits the wearing of a miitary uniform. I could be wrong. Again, nottalking about recruiters. i am talking about students of the school.
Again, maybe its a regional thing. Down here in the south no one would think twice about it. And as a deputy for cadets I think its a great idea. and I encourage it. In fact I had a SM who was a librarian and he wore his BDU's to "work" every Monday. No one thought twice about it.

[flyguy06]

I used to do recruiting events all the time at schools WIWAC.  We tried a couple of different uniforms.

I actually find the opposite. Girls are more likely to try something new. Something they have never heard of. Boys, well, if they have never heard of it (like CAP) they are reluctant to find out what its all aboiut. they usually stick to what they know (BSA, Football, etc)

[Eclipse]

In fact I had a SM who was a librarian and he wore his BDU's to "work" every Monday. No one thought twice about it.

apparently no one involved reads 39-1...

DO NOT WEAR      when engaged in private employment.

[lordmonar]

Tie tack/tie bar are not manditory......but they make your tie look better.

MIKE requires proof of this assertion using CAPM 39-1 as published.

Can't...either way....so I follow USAF policy and they are option.

[RiverAux]

We are talking about a boy or girl who actually goes to school there everyday. Why would they need permission to wear a CAP uniform to school?

Because CAP uniforms can only be worn at CAP authorized activities and the squadron commander would need to authorize it to be worn as part of a local recruiting drive for it to be worn at school. 

[DC]

We are talking about a boy or girl who actually goes to school there everyday. Why would they need permission to wear a CAP uniform to school?

Because CAP uniforms can only be worn at CAP authorized activities and the squadron commander would need to authorize it to be worn as part of a local recruiting drive for it to be worn at school. 

I think he was referring to getting permission from the school, not their commander.

It is a good point to bring up though, if you are going to wear a uniform outside of a meeting or a 'normal' activity, get your SQ commander's approval first.

[addo1]

My squadron has come up with an idea of recruitment: having trustworthy Cadets going to their school in their BDU (as being in camo and boots would spark some interest, especially if the uniform follow the 39-1 very strictly; you know, perfect tapes, rolled sleeves, rank placement, etc.) and/or doing a presentation about CAP with at least one Senior Member (each of our Cadets, except for two twins and two friends, come from different schools and wearing the uniform may or may not be on the same day as the presentation [if there is one]. Also, the presentation may actually have more than one Cadet and/or Senior Member)

Assuming there is permission given from the Squadron Commander and schools' principals, is this style of recruitment even allowed/possible according to some sort of regulation that CAP has?

Yes, it is TOTALLY a idea that works.  I, myself have done it as recruiter multiple times and each time brings results even though the squadron is an hour away...  I have worn both the BDUs and the Service Dress.  Both seem to work for me.  Just don't wear the service dress if you have to go to athletics... Results don't turn out good there... 

We are talking about a boy or girl who actually goes to school there everyday. Why would they need permission to wear a CAP uniform to school?

Because CAP uniforms can only be worn at CAP authorized activities and the squadron commander would need to authorize it to be worn as part of a local recruiting drive for it to be worn at school. 

I think he was referring to getting permission from the school, not their commander.

It is a good point to bring up though, if you are going to wear a uniform outside of a meeting or a 'normal' activity, get your SQ commander's approval first.

It is a good idea ato get permission from the school as well.  Most will have no problem with it, but you want to stay on the safe side.

[RiverAux]

Yeah, a discussion with the school administration would be in order as well.  Just as a courtesy. 

[jimmydeanno]

Can't...either way....so I follow USAF policy and they are option.

9. Tie Tack or Bar: Center tie tack or tie bar (CAP crest, Air Force coat of arms, Wing and Star/Hap Arnold design or grade insignia) between bottom edge of knot and bottom (tip) of tie, if tie is worn.

So the current iteration of 39-1 says if a tie is worn so will a tie tack or bar.  Not optional.

[lordmonar]

Yeah, a discussion with the school administration would be in order as well.  Just as a courtesy. 

Not a courtesy...but absolutly manditory.  The principle is responsible for everthing that goes on at the school and if you are doing a recruiting drive the principle MUST be in on the loop.

[RiverAux]

Obviously so if you are putting up flyers around school, setting up a recruiting table and things of that nature.  Just wearing the uniform though?  I don't think it is mandatory to get administration permissions for that (unless of course there is a school uniform).  I probably would anyway, since I would be trying everything at once rather than just having them wear the uniform one day.

[DC]

If someone objects, for whatever reason, and the Principal gave you permission it's on them instead of you...

[brasda91]

I would not authorize any cadet to wear his/her uniform to school, just for the heck of it.  To me, it doesn't fall within the guidelines of 39-1.  They're not:

engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions.

Recruiting for a specified period of time while at school would be ok with me.  Example, you go into school during the lunch period/s.  Your cadets change into their uniform for the lunch period, then change back to civies afterwards.

[flyguy06]

Obviously so if you are putting up flyers around school, setting up a recruiting table and things of that nature.  Just wearing the uniform though?  I don't think it is mandatory to get administration permissions for that (unless of course there is a school uniform).  I probably would anyway, since I would be trying everything at once rather than just having them wear the uniform one day.

Thats exactly what I am talking about. My SM wearsit to school because we have to have a CAP squadroninthe school after school andhe wore it on meeting days. Like Riveraux says though if they are recruiting then yes,they need to get permission. Butif they are just wearing it (correctly) just to wear it. Maybe they have to leave straight from schol and go to the CAP meeting, or maybe they are wearing to attract attention to get questions about their unit (not an official recruiting activity)

The thing you guys are thinking is that somehow the CAP uniform (or any uniform) is somehow differnet than normal cloths. There is no policy against wearing military style clothing to school (at least not in my area) If a person (non CAP) wants to wear fatigue shirt and pants, there is no rule that sayd he cant. Thats the point i am trying to make. Probably not saying it correctly though

As for my unit. man, we are so hurting in members. I welcome any effort amongst the cadets we do have

[Eclipse]

The thing you guys are thinking is that somehow the CAP uniform (or any uniform) is somehow different than normal cloths. There is no policy against wearing military style clothing to school (at least not in my area) If a person (non CAP) wants to wear fatigue shirt and pants, there is no rule that says he cant.

A BDU jacket or trousers, absent of insignia, could be argued as "cloth" - a properly appointed CAP uniform, in any flavor is absolutely not "just cloth".  Regardless, CAP members especially should have more respect for uniform items, and all they represent, then to be wearing them in "knock-around" situations.

Some random high-school sophomore may have no idea what goes with that camo pattern, but we all know better, and that's part of the point of CAP.

As to wearing the uniform to work, its verboten regardless of where you have to go after, unless your private employment is directly related to CAP (such as an in-school CAP program).

Just change in the bathroom before you leave like the rest of the universe.  I encourage my members to be seen in uniform by their employers so that they see activity and will understand better when asking for resources or time off, but not walking in the door at 8am and sitting in BDU's while you update your TPS Reports.

A CAP uniform has no place in private employment.

[flyguy06]

Ok

[AvroArrow]

I apoligize for the super late reply; thought this topic "disappeared off the map."

now, I'm not sure if I said this before, but just in case, I'll say it again  : The plan is for our trustworthy cadets to go to school in uniform and spark the peers' interests. And, if we can, even set up a whole, official presentation to one (or more) schools for recruitment for our squadron. The reason the presentation may not work is only because a lot of schools might already have everything planned out (which is more likely than not knowing the local schools) and not have any room for an official recruitment presentation.

Now, the reason we'd want to wear our uniforms "for the heck of it" is because (and maybe it IS just a reional thing) just coming in BDUs/SS Blues would get a lot of people curious, and maybe even a handful interested in joining. Pretentious as that is, it's really the only thing that could be done besides a recruitment presetation (once more, knowing the local schools) considering that, I myself, have gone around "stirring peoples' interests" in CAP, all for it become nothing because they either instantly forget about it the next day, or find out that it's a lot more work than doing Boy/Girl scouts in regard to military bearing and code of conduct. But, in theory, coming in uniform for one or two days will possibly hold their interests long enough to come to at least one meeting.

Also, as DC said earlier, it's better to be safe than sorry and have all the pressure directed towards the principal. Now, this just may be an "outsider" opinion as a Californian moving to Kansas/Missouri, but the general attitude and morals of people (especially the adults/parents) of 'round where I live is of a very conservative, traditional kind of feel. What I mean is that, if I were to come to school in uniform without permission, a lot of my peers would tell their parents who would call the school principal immediately and put in a complaint about me wearing an "army uniform" (even if I were the in the servie [dress] uniform) which would follow with the principal warning me not to do it again with a pretty big angry, shaking finger.


Avro

[stratoflyer]

I just want to mention I did some recruiting at my old high school: I wore my AF blues...talked to them...gave em some video from gocivilairpatrol.com and they bit! Time to reel em in!!

Nothing fancy, just a professional look, and some visuals and great stories!

[ThorntonOL]

Now that I think about, I was recruited without talking to the cadet I was recruited by.
He got the credit even though I went to a different squadron. Ironically my unit meets where his use to.