CISM Birthday???

[James Shaw]

Well my friends it was an exciting day. On the eve of my 47th birthday I had a most interesting day at work. About 1 pm, I returned from lunch with my sister and walked by the boss's office on the way to mine. He asked me if I wanted to see the "ball" they found in the back part of the facility. I go into his office and this ball that he was referring to is a Civil War Era Cannon Ball. He is on his computer looking this thing up and asks me to get a tape measure. I measure the Cannon Ball and found it to be 4 ½ inch. What he read to me next was scary. This type of cannon ball has been found in several areas and that many of the collectors have been KILLED because they exploded in their houses or while they were holding them. He decided we needed to get the thing out of the building but did not want to just "pick it up". We went outside to find a bucket to put it in. I found a 5 gallon bucket while he was reading the history of the prior discoveries. When I came back he said this type of cannon ball had exploded several times and killed some avid collectors and treasure hunters. I took the cannon ball from the desk and placed it inside the bucket.

At this point we decided we needed to get this thing out of the building and call someone. We did not want to create a bomb scare or media event and thought of ways to keep that from happening. We are a large chemical facility and it could cause a lot of panic. I called one of my former colleagues at the sheriff's department and asked for some guidance and a phone number. He patched me through to the Police Department Communications Center where I advised the dispatcher of what we had and what we understood about the history. They decided they were going to send out a Bomb Squad. I asked if they could send an unmarked unit so we would not create a city wide panic. They decided to send a Bomb Sniffing Dog. We were going to have to wait for a while so they could locate the team and send them to us without going over their Communications System. This was done to keep the media from picking up the broadcast and coming to the facility.

While we were waiting the facility owner and myself felt we needed to make sure people stayed away from the bucket and the potential harm it could cause. We were going to initially keep the bucket locked in the building and have the people leave. I told him I didn't like the idea of this thing being inside the building and that I was going to move it somewhere away from us and others. Before he could disagree I picked the bucket up and went through the building to the front of the facility. My heart was pounding like crazy and all I could think about was dropping this thing and it blowing up. I took it outside and place it under a tree. The boss and I cleared the area of people and waited for the Police to arrive.

He went inside to make some phone calls and I stood "guard" around the ball to keep people away for at least 50 feet for about an hour. I even had to stop the landscaping people from doing their work and ask them to wait for a while to do it. I have never been so scared and nervous at the same time. I was thinking worse case scenarios the entire time. It took the city a little while to get the team together and send to us. When they arrived the dog sniffed around the item. The officer inspected the cannon ball and said the only way to truly know would be to x-ray the ball. We told them they could take it and do what they needed. The police officer decided it would be best to take it to their area and detonate the cannon ball to make sure it would not pose any harm.

Though I acted pretty tame during the whole event I was petrified and scared. How many times does one person find a Cannon Ball that could explode?

Can I now add it to the resume??? 

When the officer brought a copy of the report by my office I asked what happened to the Cannon Ball, he said they did a controlled detonation and disposed of it.


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[THRAWN]

Just so I'm clear....you identify an object which you know has the tendency to explode. Instead of leaving the area and notifying the bomb squad, you pick it up, put it in a bucket, and handle it some more? On the upside, you did use paper towels to give it some cushion....Lucky isn't the word I would use to describe the situation.

[LSThiker]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The former National Safety Officer



Yeah, I think I would have just left it alone and evacuated the area.  No reason to handle a potentially explosive device any more than necessary. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Reminded me of when I worked as an orderly at the Emergency Department at a Puerto Rico hospital. I was about 24 years old at the time.

I get a request to move a patient from the ER to ICU. We had to move the gurney with the patient and load a 500 lb oxygen tank. I pick one of them, turn it on a little bit to make sure it was full, shut it down to put the O regulator into it. When I placed the regulator a screw in the tank came loose so the tank started passing oxygen. Twisting the on-off valve did nothing. Moving the regulator... well the problem was not the regulator. At the time I did not know it was the screw, I learned it later.

So finally I ran out with the stupid tank without knowing what was causing the problem to a grassy area by the parking lot. Told the security guard not to let any person around. Not knowing if it was being caused by a cracked connection or some other cracks, whether it could explode I put one foot on the body of the tank and opened it slowly. And waited until it emptied. Remember it was full, 500 lb take a loooong time to get out...

Bad thing, I could not get any maintenance or other help, as it was like 0300. But good thing it was so there were not many other public, just those with patients in the ER.

Not the first time with a pressure canister.

When I was about 16 years old I decide to set some plastic models of ships in fire. I started adding stuff. A D battery. Then a CO2 cartridge from a seltzer bottle I assumed was empty. Then I think that was not the brightest idea, combining those two in a little fire. So I decide to put the fire out, pouring water on it. I think a little more, and conclude that a large stream of cold water on a hot CO2 cartridge could make the cartridge go BOOM quicker. Instead I throw drops of water from a hand-held garden hose about one or one and a half feet up. Either the battery but more probably the CO2 canister goes Ka-BOOM! Two neighbors, from the back and side houses came out. I never found the canister or the battery, nothing happened to me. Except a scolding from my parents... Could have lost fingers, a hand, or an eye...

[winterg]

Life > Property.  100% of the time.

Interesting find though. Thanks for sharing. You never think a war relic from a century and a half will still be deadly. I can see how people could get hurt not realizing the danger.

[Flying Pig]

So you actually found a real "bomb" and from then on the majority of your decisions were based on appearances and trying to keep it quiet that you were walking around with a cannon ball in a bucket?  Your post will have every EOD tech in the world shaking their heads. I don't discredit you taking action, but you took the wrong action and got lucky.  Your decisions were based on public relations concerns not safety. 

You obviously posted this for feedback, so their ya go.   About the only thing that would make this story better is if the K9 would have knocked the bucket over!

[James Shaw]

So you actually found a real "bomb" and from then on the majority of your decisions were based on appearances and trying to keep it quiet that you were walking around with a cannon ball in a bucket?  Your post will have every EOD tech in the world shaking their heads. I don't discredit you taking action, but you took the wrong action and got lucky.  Your decisions were based on public relations concerns not safety. 

You obviously posted this for feedback, so their ya go.   About the only thing that would make this story better is if the K9 would have knocked the bucket over!

Disagree: Removing it from active chemical area was primary concern. Didn't want to create scare after that. But everyone entitled to their opinion.

[kwe1009]

So you actually found a real "bomb" and from then on the majority of your decisions were based on appearances and trying to keep it quiet that you were walking around with a cannon ball in a bucket?  Your post will have every EOD tech in the world shaking their heads. I don't discredit you taking action, but you took the wrong action and got lucky.  Your decisions were based on public relations concerns not safety. 

You obviously posted this for feedback, so their ya go.   About the only thing that would make this story better is if the K9 would have knocked the bucket over!

Disagree: Removing it from active chemical area was primary concern. Didn't want to create scare after that. But everyone entitled to their opinion.

Since you had already determined that this type of explosive had already killed others I'm not sure why you thought it was safe to move?  I understand being concerned about the chemical area but moving an explosive by untrained people is only asking for an explosion.  The primary concern should always be the safety of human beings period.  No professional bomb tech, LE, EMS, etc would agree with your approach.  I am glad that nothing happened.

[Devil Doc]

So Notify the Bomb Squad this will take Hours Upon Hours to come? Or be Cautious and remove the "Cannon Ball" from the situaton. I would have moved it myself.

Waiting for EOD, is Atrocious.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

It sounds like the OP assessed the risk to himself against the possible risks to many should this explode in proximity to the chemicals on hand.

He must have decided the risk to many was greater and used as much care as possible to mitigate that risk and that to himself.

Sounds like that ORM stuff we all get taught, to me.

[Flying Pig]

So you actually found a real "bomb" and from then on the majority of your decisions were based on appearances and trying to keep it quiet that you were walking around with a cannon ball in a bucket?  Your post will have every EOD tech in the world shaking their heads. I don't discredit you taking action, but you took the wrong action and got lucky.  Your decisions were based on public relations concerns not safety. 

You obviously posted this for feedback, so their ya go.   About the only thing that would make this story better is if the K9 would have knocked the bucket over!

Disagree: Removing it from active chemical area was primary concern. Didn't want to create scare after that. But everyone entitled to their opinion.

My response wasn't an opinion. 

[Flying Pig]

Let me clarify.  What you did took guts.  Provided what you stated is true, I'd hope to see you getting a MoV at the next wing conference.  However, next time someone drops a bomb on your desk, evacuate the building, not the bomb. 

[James Shaw]

So you actually found a real "bomb" and from then on the majority of your decisions were based on appearances and trying to keep it quiet that you were walking around with a cannon ball in a bucket?  Your post will have every EOD tech in the world shaking their heads. I don't discredit you taking action, but you took the wrong action and got lucky.  Your decisions were based on public relations concerns not safety. 

You obviously posted this for feedback, so their ya go.   About the only thing that would make this story better is if the K9 would have knocked the bucket over!

Disagree: Removing it from active chemical area was primary concern. Didn't want to create scare after that. But everyone entitled to their opinion.

My response wasn't an opinion.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Flying Pig]

Of course when you get your medal your CAPtalk cover will be blown forever like an outed CIA officer. You can never go back to the life you once had.

[ColonelJack]

Of course when you get your medal your CAPtalk cover will be blown forever like an outed CIA officer. You can never go back to the life you once had.

He already has a  SMoV.

Jack

[James Shaw]

Of course when you get your medal your CAPtalk cover will be blown forever like an outed CIA officer. You can never go back to the life you once had.

I have no clandestine cover. I just don't have a sig right now. But it is Shaw, Jim Shaw....002. My sig was caphistorian but I am no  longer a CAP Historian and removed such. Maybe I should put it back??

[MSG Mac]

If it hadn't detonated in 150 years it most likely wouldn't if left alone until the Bomb Squad showed up. By putting the shell into a bucket you added an additional level of shrapnel for the potential explosion. The Bomb Squad is also outfitted in explosive -resistant clothing, you had maybe 1/2 inch of cotten to absorb the blast. clear the building and let the professionals do their job.

[RRLE]

Did the cannonball have a fuse or fuse hole/port? My understanding of ordnance from that era is that the exploding shells had a fuse port/hole. The fuse was ignited by the firing of the cannon. Without a fuse port/hole, i.e. a solid cannonball, the cannonball should have been inert.

Old ordnance can be deadly the USS San Diego/California (ACR-6) is a popular dive spot. Every so often, divers remove some of her ordnance as souvenirs and some of it explodes, killing them.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Msg-

Earlier he stated it had been removed from the ground by another person, not by him. He just removed it from that person's office, and the building.

I am pretty sure he would have left it in the ground, knowing what he knew about the history.

I am quoting from his original post:

Well my friends it was an exciting day. On the eve of my 47th birthday I had a most interesting day at work. About 1 pm, I returned from lunch with my sister and walked by the boss's office on the way to mine. He asked me if I wanted to see the "ball" they found in the back part of the facility. I go into his office and this ball that he was referring to is a Civil War Era Cannon Ball...

[Luis R. Ramos]

RRLE-

You are right, shells which would be what the exploding ball was called had a fuse hole. Shot balls did not.

But to make sure, would you not call an expert, the Bomb Disposal guys?