New ribbon ideas?

[Bobble]

Since you asked ...

A Patron Membership ribbon, aka the Shuman Award.

  :clap:

While I see your humor and enjoy it, it's actually not a bad idea.

I don't know how many Patrons add, drop-off and/or rejoin each year but giving them a small token (like a ribbon/medal and a certificate) might (coulda, woulda, shoulda) stimulate renewal and maybe even stimulate some new patronage.

If that adds too much for processing costs, raise the patronage dues to say $35-40 USC to cover it.

There might be other important issues to address:

1) Where would the ribbon be correctly placed on a uniform that can't be worn?
2) Would a formal award ceremony be held via conference call or Skype?
3) What about repeat awards?  Bronze and silver "$" devices denoting the number of annual patron membership checks cashed by National?
4) Would an CAP instruction pamphlet (CAPP) accompany each award providing guidance on proper dusting techniques as the awards fill up the fireplace mantel?

Ahhh, the possibilities ....

[Shuman 14]

There might be other important issues to address:

1) Where would the ribbon be correctly placed on a uniform that can't be worn?

Well that one is simple, it becomes the very last/lowest ranking CAP award, even behind CAP Cadet Awards. If the Patron ever becomes an Active Member it is worn there.  If the Patron is member of some other uniformed Organization, if that Organization authorizes the wear of CAP, he/she could wear it according to the said Organizations rules and regulations.

2) Would a formal award ceremony be held via conference call or Skype?

Umm... no.

3) What about repeat awards?  Bronze and silver "$" devices denoting the number of annual patron membership checks cashed by National?

Keep it simple and use the clasps and numerals like on the Red Service Ribbon.

4) Would an CAP instruction pamphlet (CAPP) accompany each award providing guidance on proper dusting techniques as the awards fill up the fireplace mantel?

Just an update to 39-3 to cover the new award should be enough.

Ahhh, the possibilities ....


Yes, possibilities. 

[THRAWN]

A Patron Awards isnt an especially bad idea. SGAUS does something similar. Some State Guards allow it to be worn, some dont. It really is just an attaboy type of awards. Looks nice on the office wall....

[SAREXinNY]

I don't think it's a horrible idea.  There are a LOT of organizations that provide ribbons to civilian personnel that do not wear a uniform:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_government

[Shuman 14]

A Patron Awards isnt an especially bad idea. SGAUS does something similar. Some State Guards allow it to be worn, some dont. It really is just an attaboy type of awards. Looks nice on the office wall....

Exactly! Now if seeing that certificate and/or Medal on the wall prompts a conversation about CAP it might recruit a new Member or another Patron to offer support. A win/win for everyone.

[Private Investigator]

I don't think it's a horrible idea.  There are a LOT of organizations that provide ribbons to civilian personnel that do not wear a uniform:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_government

I was watching a show about the FBI and one of the retired agents was wearing a ribbon rack on his suit coat. It looked out of place because you really do not see Americans wearing ribbon racks. The other thing is since I do not recognize the ribbons I do not know if he is an admin type with perfect attendance or a gunfighter 

[lordmonar]

I don't think it's a horrible idea.  There are a LOT of organizations that provide ribbons to civilian personnel that do not wear a uniform:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_government

I was watching a show about the FBI and one of the retired agents was wearing a ribbon rack on his suit coat. It looked out of place because you really do not see Americans wearing ribbon racks. The other thing is since I do not recognize the ribbons I do not know if he is an admin type with perfect attendance or a gunfighter 

Why would it matter?

[DoubleSecret]

I don't think it's a horrible idea.  There are a LOT of organizations that provide ribbons to civilian personnel that do not wear a uniform:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_government

I was watching a show about the FBI and one of the retired agents was wearing a ribbon rack on his suit coat. It looked out of place because you really do not see Americans wearing ribbon racks. The other thing is since I do not recognize the ribbons I do not know if he is an admin type with perfect attendance or a gunfighter 

Why would it matter?

The notion that one's ribbon rack is one's resume, and if the wearer is putting it out there he thinks it matters.  Reasonable minds may differ on this.

[lordmonar]

Yes...why would it matter to YOU what someone else's ribbon rack looked like?   He is FBI...his ribbons are FBI and he is talking to other FBI agents.

It would matter tho other FBI agents...but not to you.

That's the whole problem with comparing CAP cadets with anyone else but CAP cadets...or CAP SM, or ARMY personnel, or USAF personnel.

Cadet Capt says to MOH winner "got more ribbons then you" is a funny joke.....but that is all that is was a joke....even on the Cadet Capt's part.

Now don't get me wrong...I think we got too many ribbons.  We can clean it up a bit with a little consolidation.   But I don't go comparing and contrasting US to anyone else but US.

[Eclipse]

That's the whole problem with comparing CAP cadets with anyone else but CAP cadets...or CAP SM, or ARMY personnel, or USAF personnel.

Which is why only CAP ribbons should be allowed on CAP uniforms, and/or CAP ribbons should be required on
CAP uniforms >before< any military ribbons are worn.

[PHall]

That's the whole problem with comparing CAP cadets with anyone else but CAP cadets...or CAP SM, or ARMY personnel, or USAF personnel.

Which is why only CAP ribbons should be allowed on CAP uniforms, and/or CAP ribbons should be required on
CAP uniforms >before< any military ribbons are worn.

If this bothers you this much, then submit a suggested change to the 39-1 and the 39-3.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That's the whole problem with comparing CAP cadets with anyone else but CAP cadets...or CAP SM, or ARMY personnel, or USAF personnel.

Which is why only CAP ribbons should be allowed on CAP uniforms, and/or CAP ribbons should be required on
CAP uniforms >before< any military ribbons are worn.

If this bothers you this much, then submit a suggested change to the 39-1 and the 39-3.

And then watch said suggestion spiral...

[PHall]

I've seen suggestions that were adopted. You have to build a good package that shows why adopting your suggestion would be good for CAP.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I like the idea of taking a good look at the senior member training ribbons. The Leadership Award isn't really about leadership, because it sure doesn't affirm that the affixed member can lead! And there's no need to name it for someone — leave that goofiness to the cadet side of the house. Let's call it something like the Specialty Training Ribbon and continue with the stars for specialty track status. As for the Loening, Garber and Wilson awards, should they stay or should they go?

The Yeager Award ribbon, I thought, was a cakewalk. It's probably the easiest ribbon for a former cadet to get. Should it even be accorded a ribbon? Make it a clasp on the aforementioned specialty training ribbon.

As for the Membership Award, which is pretty much a gimme anyway, maybe it should be treated much like the rainbow-colored Army Service Ribbon — and call it just that, a service ribbon. Or just kill it altogether. (EDIT: Good way to tell if someone pays attention to detail: Look how many seniors wear the darned thing upside-down.)

Having a ribbon for squadrons of merit/distinction, I think, requires us to rethink the Unit Citation Award. Maybe we need to have two ribbons — a meritorious unit ribbon (merit/distinction) and the other, a unit citation. The meritorious unit ribbon would be subordinate to the unit citation.

The Red Service Ribbon could be renamed the Longevity Ribbon and attachments stay as-is. The name doesn't even make sense anymore, since we don't stack on white and blue service ribbons anymore.

The Command Service Ribbon and Community Service Ribbon are the same ribbon, for all intents and purposes. Why are they so similar? Now that former commanders can continue wearing the commander badge, why do we need the ribbon? And at that, come to think of it, why do we have a separate badge for group commanders?

Two recruiter ribbons don't make much sense, either. And frankly, I don't think we need separate ribbons for the color guard and drill competitions.

The NRA marksmanship award for cadets could easily be a ribbon, with precedent set by Ma Blue.

The other thing I'd like to see is the phase-out of the triangular clasps in favor of the oak clusters. It's tidier and more professional (and probably cheaper), especially with multiple awards. Vanguard's stock could be depleted with a staggered phase-in, or maybe a cadet requirement for the CAP clasps.

Don't get me started on the specialty track badges, which are both too numerous and absolutely hideous, especially the aerospace education badge, which looks like a stained-glass window, the cadet program badge and its fussy stars, and all those badges that look like they're made with clip art. We should simplify them along general areas (for instance, a support badge would include all the logistics functions, administration and personnel; a communications badge would include public affairs and IT; et al) and design nice silver badges to go above the ribbons. Oh, and not authorize them in 10 different places on the uniform, like the shield badges are now. So much for standardization and uniformity when people can puke shields all over their blues.

REALLY OUTRAGEOUS IDEA: Why do we have separate SAR and DR ribbons? Why can't we combine them into one operations ribbon, continuing the use of the "V" for presidentially declared disasters and the prop for air deployment?

[lordmonar]

I was the one who suggested that the CAP adopt the USAF rules for the commander's badge...took a few years....but 99% of my original white paper was adopted.

The only part that was not adopted was the elimination of the commanders ribbon.

So....it is not always a black hole.

On the subject of "only CAP ribbons on CAP uniforms"  Remember that war the USAF aux and we should include USAF blingage on our uniforms.

I would go even one further.....and incorporate our uniforms and awards into the USAF system and allow current USAF member to wear CAP ribbons.   Of course before I would go there.....it would mean really really really cleaning up a lot of CAP's blingage.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

If you could submit a new ribbon to NHQ what would you submit?

Thank you

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19356.0

From a similar thread.

SNARK ALERT: I suggest you take a look at the image of the medal on this page and tell me if this would cause confusion.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/11/07/tom-cruise-testifies-katie-holmes-left-him-to-protect-suri-from-scientology

[lordmonar]

+1 on Buckeye's suggestion.

I would roll all the cadet program ribbons into ONE....Cadet Program Ribbon.  Wear OLCs to signify how far in the cadet program you get.
I would keep the membership ribbon but lose all the other SM PD ribbons.

Commander's ribbon...gone...they got a badge.
Crossfeild ribbon....gone...they get a badge.
Yeager ribbon.....keep it....it we make the Senior Aerospace Education Program a much tougher achievement to get.

Beyond that....we need a CAP Achievement, CAP Commendation, CAP Meritorious Service, CAP Legion of Merit and a CAP Distinguished Service Awards.  That would cover service and actions at roughly the squadron, group, wing, region, and national levels.

SAR/CD/DR/HLS ribbons get spit into a CAP Aerial Achievement, CAP Base Achievement, and CAP Ground Achievement awards.....don't care so much what sub mission you are doing.....just that you are doing missions.

CAC....gone
NCSA....gone
NCGC and NCC ribbons...gone......award them achievement/commendation medals if they deserve them.

Create the CAP medal for lifesaving in dangerous circumstances (aka the Airman's medal)
And finally create a CAP Cross for saving the world and getting the girl/boy at the end of the movie for those really really really rare occasions that we need something of that caliber.

Roll all of these up into an Air Force AFI and put them to good use.

[pierson777]

SNARK ALERT: I suggest you take a look at the image of the medal on this page and tell me if this would cause confusion.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/11/07/tom-cruise-testifies-katie-holmes-left-him-to-protect-suri-from-scientology

You know what's amazing about that medal on Tom Cruise is that it's actually a regular size medal.  It just looks gigantic on his small stature

[arajca]

+1 on Buckeye's suggestion.

I would roll all the cadet program ribbons into ONE....Cadet Program Ribbon.  Wear OLCs to signify how far in the cadet program you get.
I would keep the membership ribbon but lose all the other SM PD ribbons.

Commander's ribbon...gone...they got a badge.
Crossfeild ribbon....gone...they get a badge.
Yeager ribbon.....keep it....it we make the Senior Aerospace Education Program a much tougher achievement to get.

Beyond that....we need a CAP Achievement, CAP Commendation, CAP Meritorious Service, CAP Legion of Merit and a CAP Distinguished Service Awards.  That would cover service and actions at roughly the squadron, group, wing, region, and national levels.

SAR/CD/DR/HLS ribbons get spit into a CAP Aerial Achievement, CAP Base Achievement, and CAP Ground Achievement awards.....don't care so much what sub mission you are doing.....just that you are doing missions.

CAC....gone
NCSA....gone
NCGC and NCC ribbons...gone......award them achievement/commendation medals if they deserve them.

Create the CAP medal for lifesaving in dangerous circumstances (aka the Airman's medal)
And finally create a CAP Cross for saving the world and getting the girl/boy at the end of the movie for those really really really rare occasions that we need something of that caliber.

Roll all of these up into an Air Force AFI and put them to good use.

I'd keep 5 CP ribbons - Curry, Wright Bros, Mitchell, Earhart, and Spaatz. Use devices to denote achievements between them.
3 Senior training ribbons - Membership, Officer Training, Wilson. Devices on Membership to denote levels. Officer Training for completing SOS, ASCS, and AWC - Ribbon for one, silver star for two, gold star for all three.
We already have the CAP Achievement etc. No need for Legion of Merit as we already have the Exceptional Service Medal.
We already have the Bronze and Silver Medals of Valor for last two listed.
I'd also have a Longevity and Recruiting ribbon. Use same scheme for Longevity as current Red Service Ribbon. Use same standard for seniors and cadets for recruiting ribbon - Ribbon for two, first device for three more (total of five), device for every five afterward.

[lordmonar]

The renaming of the exceptional service medal is to bring it into line with USAF terminology.

Why keep the wilson and leadership?   Same with the milestones of the cadet program.   

Redundant redundant.    Cadets get rank so they don't really need a ribbon for each step....even for the Spaatz.

I would keep the longevity (read service) ribbon...rename it and change the award criteria to one for every four years.
Same deal for the recruiting ribbon....just one....just one set of requirements.