The New CAPM 39-1 Now Available

Started by MisterCD, June 26, 2014, 05:25:56 PM

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Panache

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 04:52:17 AM
Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 04:47:52 AM
We will see.  I am conducting my own personal experiment.  Let's see what happens first:

a) Nobody says anything to challenge me.
b) Somebody challenges me, but drops it when I refuse the weigh in.
c) I get 2B'd.
d) I get challenged and I drag it out long enough until my CAP membership expires.

Either way, it's going to be interesting.

So play tit for tat and compromise your integrity to stick it to the man?

I view it more as standing up for what I believe is right.

Tim Medeiros

I'm directly affect by those policies myself, however I don't find them repressive.  I stand true to my personal integrity and hold my unit to their integrity as well.  My CDC and CDS (both on here) do the same.

As for why you should show it in return, simple, if you cannot show personal integrity, how can you possibly even think of expecting it of others?  No, we can't order our wing commanders and higher to do something, however a tactful reminder of every members responsibility to follow all of the regulations could be in order.  I know if I were in those positions, I'd expect something like that from my members, it is after all, their responsibility.  This is even explicitly stated in the manual.

Quote2.12.1.6. All members will be alert to other CAP members that may be in violation of uniform and appearance standards and provide correction to any CAP member that is in violation of uniform and appearance standards. That correction must be provided in a way that reflects CAP's core value of respect, both of the uniform and of the other member.
TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
Chair, National IT Functional User Group
1577/2811

abdsp51

Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 04:54:18 AM
I view it more as standing up for what I believe is right.

If that's the case then compromising YOUR integrity is not the way to go.  But if you can sleep by compromising yourself like that well I feel sorry for those around you.

MajorM

Hmmm... Someone should've pointed that out to our region commander before he went on his little uniform rant at the last wing conference.  I know that pretty much no one felt "respect" emanating from him.

Panache

Quote from: Tim Medeiros on June 27, 2014, 04:55:17 AM
As for why you should show it in return, simple, if you cannot show personal integrity, how can you possibly even think of expecting it of others? 

I've been showing personal integrity, while others around me have not, and it's gotten me squat.

With all due respect, Colonel, words of integrity and honor are nice when writing them on some internet forum, but, as I've learned, seem to hold zero weight in the real world, working with real people.

Either I adapt to the reality of my environment, or I (figuratively) die.  I have chosen to do what I feel is right.  What, to me, my personal integrity demands of me.  I hold no illusions, I fully expect this will mean the end of my CAP career.  So be it.  I'll be able to sleep well at night with that knowledge.

Panache

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 04:59:25 AM
Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 04:54:18 AM
I view it more as standing up for what I believe is right.

If that's the case then compromising YOUR integrity is not the way to go.  But if you can sleep by compromising yourself like that well I feel sorry for those around you.

And you're perfectly willing to throw almost half of the membership under the bus so you can fool yourself that you're upholding integrity?  I feel sorry for the those around you.

abdsp51

Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 05:06:40 AM
And you're perfectly willing to throw almost half of the membership under the bus so you can fool yourself that you're upholding integrity?  I feel sorry for the those around you.

I uphold the standards set down period regardless of what you wear.  If you're out of regs and I see it I'll say something the day I can't wear AF style in this I'll comply with what I can wear and you wont hear me gripe about being second class.  Most of the griping I hear about those wearing the corp uniforms are those who don't want to abide by H/W or don't want to abide by grooming.  Sorry play by the rules or don't and reap the consequences.  I have not thrown anyone under the bus because of what uniform in this org they can or cannot wear.  Sorry but I am not going to stoop to someone's level to play tit for tat.  I hope you're not on a GT or AC because I'd hate to work with someone who's going to thumb their nose at something so simple especially if someone's life is at stake.  PA must be proud to have ya...

Panache

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 05:13:48 AM
Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 05:06:40 AM
And you're perfectly willing to throw almost half of the membership under the bus so you can fool yourself that you're upholding integrity?  I feel sorry for the those around you.

I uphold the standards set down period regardless of what you wear.  If you're out of regs and I see it I'll say something the day I can't wear AF style in this I'll comply with what I can wear and you wont hear me gripe about being second class. 

Again, easy to say when it's not actually affecting you.  So, please, stop with your hollow boasts.

Quote
Most of the griping I hear about those wearing the corp uniforms are those who don't want to abide by H/W or don't want to abide by grooming.

You want to talk about integrity?  At least I'm being honest and up-front with my intentions, unlike the wink-and-a-nod behavior of our leadership.  But, hey, attack me if it makes you feel like a man.

Quote
PA must be proud to have ya...

Looking at my prior awards and commendations, yeah, apparently so.  I feel sorry for AZWG though.

For the record, I'm not looking for your approval or acceptance.  I know what I have to say would mostly fall upon deaf ears here. 

abdsp51

Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 05:25:32 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 05:13:48 AM
Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 05:06:40 AM
And you're perfectly willing to throw almost half of the membership under the bus so you can fool yourself that you're upholding integrity?  I feel sorry for the those around you.

I uphold the standards set down period regardless of what you wear.  If you're out of regs and I see it I'll say something the day I can't wear AF style in this I'll comply with what I can wear and you wont hear me gripe about being second class. 

Again, easy to say when it's not actually affecting you.  So, please, stop with your hollow boasts.

Quote
Most of the griping I hear about those wearing the corp uniforms are those who don't want to abide by H/W or don't want to abide by grooming.

You want to talk about integrity?  At least I'm being honest and up-front with my intentions, unlike the wink-and-a-nod behavior of our leadership.  But, hey, attack me if it makes you feel like a man.

Quote
PA must be proud to have ya...

Looking at my prior awards and commendations, yeah, apparently so.  I feel sorry for AZWG though.

For the record, I'm not looking for your approval or acceptance.  I know what I have to say would mostly fall upon deaf ears here.

Calling it like I see it, sorry if you can't handle it.  And there is nothing hollow about what I have said plain and simple and I have folks that will back me on that.  And really I am not here or responding to give you approval or acceptance, but I can tell you that if I was your CC we'd be having a talk about your intentions. 

Panache

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 05:34:16 AM
Calling it like I see it, sorry if you can't handle it. 

I can handle it just fine.  I just don't care what you think.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 05:13:48 AM
[Most of the griping I hear about those wearing the corp uniforms are those who don't want to abide by H/W or don't want to abide by grooming.

In many cases, it's not a case of wanting to abide by H/W.  I've related my health issues before so I won't go back into that, but suffice it to say that the medications I take have caused me to rack up pounds I never thought I'd have (I was anaemic as a child and quite UNDERweight).  Early onset of arthritis in my hips makes it difficult for me to exercise like I want to.

I know of people in CAP who are in wheelchairs and even more unable to exercise...and have racked on even more poundage.

I don't claim to speak for others, but I highly doubt that many others with weight exclusions viz. uniforms like having to wear the G/W kit.

I, too, notice a hardening of attitudes about the "corporate" uniforms...even not allowing "scalloped" pockets, which is bloody stupid.  Why?  Would it look "too military?"  Now I have to buy another shirt to be "in compliance."  The one I have is Van Heusen made...but apparently the pockets are offensive.  I, too, don't think that NUC took any of the members' views into account.  I know, I know, they don't have to, and they didn't.  But wearing that "uniform" gives me the feeling of falling out of the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down.

But, for the record...even though I have to wear that "uniform," at least I keep my grooming within standards.  I don't have to, but I do.

Regarding "commander's directive"...does that mean if a unit CC's favourite "uniform" is the golf shirt that everyone in the unit must purchase and wear said item?  If so, that's a load of old codswallop; if you haven't one to begin with, a CC can make you shell out YOUR cash for one?
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

gshayd

Quote from: JoeTomasone on June 27, 2014, 04:13:23 AM
 
The really interesting part is that while they clarified what SMWOG Adult members without grade wear for insignia on blues and grey/whites (no-insignia CAP slides), they never say which flight cap they wear or which device goes on it - it only covers Officers and NCOs.

It said if you are SM with no grade yet choosing to go the officer route you wear the Officer Flight Cap in addition to wearing the Officer Service Coat with braid ....If you choose to go to the Darkside and be an NCO then its the flight cap with the blue braid and Enlisted Service Coat until you get your prior grade back.

Panache

I would like to note that at this year's PAWG wing conference, I saw a grand total of one person wearing the "Corporate Semi-Formal Dress." 

One.

Take that as you will.

NIN

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 05:13:48 AM
Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 05:06:40 AM
And you're perfectly willing to throw almost half of the membership under the bus so you can fool yourself that you're upholding integrity?  I feel sorry for the those around you.

I uphold the standards set down period regardless of what you wear.  If you're out of regs and I see it I'll say something the day I can't wear AF style in this I'll comply with what I can wear and you wont hear me gripe about being second class.  Most of the griping I hear about those wearing the corp uniforms are those who don't want to abide by H/W or don't want to abide by grooming.  Sorry play by the rules or don't and reap the consequences.  I have not thrown anyone under the bus because of what uniform in this org they can or cannot wear.  Sorry but I am not going to stoop to someone's level to play tit for tat.  I hope you're not on a GT or AC because I'd hate to work with someone who's going to thumb their nose at something so simple especially if someone's life is at stake.  PA must be proud to have ya...

You know, I get what you're trying to say here, but you're really failing at being respectful or at least neutral about it.

Grooming, generally, is a choice. H/W isn't quite the same choice for many people.

 

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Archer

Quote from: Panache on June 27, 2014, 05:40:11 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on June 27, 2014, 05:34:16 AM
Calling it like I see it, sorry if you can't handle it. 

I can handle it just fine.  I just don't care what you think.

Could y'all imagine how hilarious this would be if this was a cadet saying this? xD


DoubleSecret

So you have to be current to wear the CPR patch (see 10.7.23), but former emergency medical technicians can wear the EMT badge (see 10.4.7). 

*facepalm*

Panache

Quote from: DoubleSecret on June 27, 2014, 12:43:53 PM
So you have to be current to wear the CPR patch (see 10.7.23), but former emergency medical technicians can wear the EMT badge (see 10.4.7). 

*facepalm*

I imagine the intent was to bring it in line with how the other qualification badges, such as aviation, which is permanently awarded.

NC Hokie

Quote from: DoubleSecret on June 27, 2014, 12:43:53 PM
So you have to be current to wear the CPR patch (see 10.7.23), but former emergency medical technicians can wear the EMT badge (see 10.4.7). 

*facepalm*

That's...yeah.

Why do we even allow medical badges on our field uniforms?  We have pages and pages of regulations stating that CAP is not a first response, primary care agency, but we encourage members to identify themselves as first responders by the badges we let them wear on the uniform.  I just don't get it.
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

Pulsar

Why did the change the insignia requirements for a C/AB? Why are they now not allowed to wear the cap cutouts?

Why are they making the US flag optional?

C/LtCol Neutron Star
PAWG ENC 2013/ AMMA 2014/ NER W RCLS 2014-5 [Salutatorian] / NER Powered Flight Academy 2015

"A fiery strength inspires their lives, An essence that from heaven
derives,..." - Vergil, The Aeneid

(C) Copyright 2013: Readers who choose to hardcopy my comments are entitled to specific rights, namely: you may print them off and read them repeatedly until you have memorized them and then rattle them off as if you had thought them up yourself; However if asked, you must say they were signaled to you from a neutron star.

NC Hokie

Quote from: Pulsar on June 27, 2014, 01:06:07 PM
Why did the change the insignia requirements for a C/AB? Why are they now not allowed to wear the cap cutouts?

Probably an effort to save parents a little money, since C/ABs can promote as soon as they're on the roster.  My experience has been that most don't, but they can.

Quote from: Pulsar on June 27, 2014, 01:06:07 PM
Why are they making the US flag optional?

They haven't made it optional, it's intended to be gone by 1 Jan 2017.  They're just giving us a fairly generous phase out period.  As to why, the official answer will probably be that the reverse US flag is not worn by the Air Force, but the cynic in me suspects that erasing another reminder of HWSRN plays into it as well.

My personal preference if to keep it, especially since the end result of taking it off and only allowing NCSA patches in that location will actually make the uniform look LESS uniform, but it is what it is.
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy