Emergency Service patch

[Eclipse]

A professional looking alternative  might find a home on more BDU's, while avoiding the "walking Christmas tree" mentioned earlier.

We'd be better off just adding a couple more specialty badges - maybe a generic "mission staff" badge or similar than re-drawing the ES patch.  That would give those who complain that without the SARDog they get no recognition for their ES quals something to wear and dim our uniforms a bit.

[arajca]

A professional looking alternative  might find a home on more BDU's, while avoiding the "walking Christmas tree" mentioned earlier.

We'd be better off just adding a couple more specialty badges - maybe a generic "mission staff" badge or similar than re-drawing the ES patch.  That would give those who complain that without the SARDog they get no recognition for their ES quals something to wear and dim our uniforms a bit.

Gee, I submited this very idea about a year before the IC badge was created. Obviously, it didn't take.

[Hawk200]

I understand the desire for an ES patch or badge since not everyone does ES.  A professional looking alternative  might find a home on more BDU's, while avoiding the "walking Christmas tree" mentioned earlier.

I can see this. As of late, I've forgone the Pluto patch on BDU's. A badge to replace it would be a good idea. A badge with the same criteria as the existing patch.

I would add a stipulation that if an individual has already been awarded an ES badge that it would be worn in lieu of the "General ES" badge. For some ES specialties, it would be double dipping to get both.

[Eclipse]

As of late, I've forgone the Pluto patch on BDU's. A badge to replace it would be a good idea. A badge with the same criteria as the existing patch.

I don't mean a badge to replace it, I mean just ramp a few more badges for other ES qualifications and drop Pluto and the plane altogether.

Right now you can wear it if you are GES and "other". Whenever we discuss dropping Pluto, the MSA's get their shorts in a bunch because they won't have anything on their uniforms to show they are involved in ES.

So if there is a SQTR for it, make a badge for it, and / or just make a badge for base operations or something and use that.  With 20 minutes to think about it we could easily slot the various specialties that don't have badges into base/senior/command and get on with our lives.

(Hint: MSA would be base, FASC would be command, etc.)

[Hawk200]

I don't mean a badge to replace it, I mean just ramp a few more badges for other ES qualifications and drop Pluto and the plane altogether.

Right now you can wear it if you are GES and "other". Whenever we discuss dropping Pluto, the MSA's get their shorts in a bunch because they won't have anything on their uniforms to show they are involved in ES.

All those other specialties, including MSA, get the patch. So what's the issue of replacing it with a badge? Nobody loses anything. They gain a badge that looks cleaner than a big bright patch.

What other specialties really need a badge? I think the current badges cover pretty much everything. The continuation of giving everybody something so no one gets left out is a really bad idea. We really need to cease catering to the lowest common denominator.

[Eclipse]

I don't mean a badge to replace it, I mean just ramp a few more badges for other ES qualifications and drop Pluto and the plane altogether.

Right now you can wear it if you are GES and "other". Whenever we discuss dropping Pluto, the MSA's get their shorts in a bunch because they won't have anything on their uniforms to show they are involved in ES.

All those other specialties, including MSA, get the patch. So what's the issue of replacing it with a badge? Nobody loses anything. They gain a badge that looks cleaner than a big bright patch.

What other specialties really need a badge? I think the current badges cover pretty much everything. The continuation of giving everybody something so no one gets left out is a really bad idea. We really need to cease catering to the lowest common denominator.

I agree - but today all we have are ground rating, aircrew, and IC.  None of the other base staff positions.  I'd like the Pluto to just go away, but the complaint I hear, usually on this board, is that Pluto is losing Pluto is "fine" for those of us with a rating that has a badge, and not cricket for all the others.

[Strick]

I hate to add badges , but maybe CAP could create omething similar to the NIMS badge that the National Guard uses.  It is hard for people to take you serious when ou have a Disney character patch on your uniform.  I put my patch on my flight helemt bag.  As a cdet I wore it on the BDU.  Maybe they could redesign the old gas station patch.  I do think we need o clean up our filed uniforms. 

[Hawk200]

I agree - but today all we have are ground rating, aircrew, and IC.  None of the other base staff positions.  I'd like the Pluto to just go away, but the complaint I hear, usually on this board, is that Pluto is losing Pluto is "fine" for those of us with a rating that has a badge, and not cricket for all the others.

In all fairness, I can see the point of those with base staff positions. I don't agree with it, but I can see the point. I do feel that those without some type of ES badge already should have at least something. But I don't think that it should extend to creating different badges for each, or even a grouping of ES type specialties. One patch currently covers them all, no reason one badge couldn't. It would simply be trading one insignia for another.

Just for the record, I don't have any ES qualification badges. Working on my scanner now, but don't think I'll be using that "Mission Scanner" line on my nameplate. Just don't feel like spending money on a nametag.

I hate to add badges , but maybe CAP could create omething similar to the NIMS badge that the National Guard uses.  It is hard for people to take you serious when ou have a Disney character patch on your uniform.  I put my patch on my flight helemt bag.  As a cdet I wore it on the BDU.  Maybe they could redesign the old gas station patch.  I do think we need o clean up our filed uniforms. 

I think the easiest thing to do is just create a badge with the Pluto on it, but I have to agree with the point of being taken seriously with a dog on it. I don't have any ideas, but I'm sure it's possible to find something that says "Emergency Services" that's fitting for CAP (and not copied from another organization).

[DC]

I wouldn't be opposed to creating a Mission Base Staff badge that could cover all the base staff positions with the exception of IC, with the basic, senior and command ratings denoting how far up the chain they are. I would also approve of general 'Aircrew Wings' for both scanners and observers and creating a badge for UDFT members (maybe a GT badge minus the 'GT' inside the triangle?). Keep the current pilot wing, IC and GT badge system and that should pretty well cover it.

That gives everyone a badge, gets them off that ridiculous looking patch, but stops short of creating a thousand individual qual badges for every possible or theoretical ES position.

[Rotorhead]

I think the easiest thing to do is just create a badge with the Pluto on it, but I have to agree with the point of being taken seriously with a dog on it. I don't have any ideas, but I'm sure it's possible to find something that says "Emergency Services" that's fitting for CAP (and not copied from another organization).

Why not just wear the other ES patch? The one with the airplane on it?

[Smithsonia]

On our BDUs - Rotorhead wears the T-34/ES patch. I wear and I love the Pluto patch. Rotorhead is taken seriously. I am comedy relief. It works. Somebody has to go to the staff meetings and someone else has to go to meet the press. 

[Stonewall]

When I was a cadet (i.e. a kid) I thought the ES patch (airplane one) was the bee's knees.   There were no other ES related patches or badges for non-flyers.

As an adult, I took the ES patch off, even before GTM/EMT badges came out.  I can't stand either of them, but the lesser of two evils; go with the airplane ES patch.

[wuzafuzz]

I hate to add badges , but maybe CAP could create omething similar to the NIMS badge that the National Guard uses.  It is hard for people to take you serious when ou have a Disney character patch on your uniform.  I put my patch on my flight helemt bag.  As a cdet I wore it on the BDU.  Maybe they could redesign the old gas station patch.  I do think we need o clean up our filed uniforms.

Is that the MEMS badge?  I've heard you have to pay SGAUS for that one and CAP doesn't currently approve it. Something along those lines would give us ground bound ES types a professional looking badge and replace Pluto and the old T-34.  (Isn't the airplane patch obsolete now?  It does kick butt over Pluto though.) 

Take the GT badge, or something like it, put ES in the middle, and call it good.  Limit of no more than one specialty badge to prevent our uniforms from looking busier than a face full of piercings.  Done.

[wuzafuzz]

I don't mean a badge to replace it, I mean just ramp a few more badges for other ES qualifications and drop Pluto and the plane altogether.

Right now you can wear it if you are GES and "other". Whenever we discuss dropping Pluto, the MSA's get their shorts in a bunch because they won't have anything on their uniforms to show they are involved in ES.

All those other specialties, including MSA, get the patch. So what's the issue of replacing it with a badge? Nobody loses anything. They gain a badge that looks cleaner than a big bright patch.

What other specialties really need a badge? I think the current badges cover pretty much everything. The continuation of giving everybody something so no one gets left out is a really bad idea. We really need to cease catering to the lowest common denominator.

Make it meaningful at the same time.  Or add additional levels to it, so those who go all the way to IC400 aren't mixed in with the lowest common denominator.

[arajca]

As I mentioned before, a proposal was submitted but was never acted upon.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2536.60

I would defintely be ready to update it, if I thought is had a snowball's chance in Hades of being approved.

[wuzafuzz]

As I mentioned before, a proposal was submitted but was never acted upon.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2536.60

I would defintely be ready to update it, if I thought is had a snowball's chance in Hades of being approved.

That was a good discussion, too bad the idea fizzled out.  The point about fewer patches on ABU's had merit as a justfication for a Pluto retirement and ES badge creation.  It's true we might go a different path than the AF, but it might provide better odds of approval this time.  Looks like there would be a few years to work on it pending ABU adoption.

[Hawk200]

Is that the MEMS badge?  I've heard you have to pay SGAUS for that one and CAP doesn't currently approve it.

The MEMS badge requires progression in a practical curriculum to be authorized the badge. It's targeted at State Guard members, but pretty much anyone can go through the program. SGAUS states that current membership is required to wear it.

Program progression details here: http://www.sgaus.org/MEMS.html

Limit of no more than one specialty badge to prevent our uniforms from looking busier than a face full of piercings.

One specialty badge total? That means that a member would not be able to wear observer wings and a ground team badge. Why? There's nothing wrong with two badges overall (other than the fact that the manual doesn't permit it). It looks fine. I wouldn't want it done the Army way with up to five, and I wear an Army uniform too. I just don't think that's appropriate for us.

Make it meaningful at the same time.  Or add additional levels to it, so those who go all the way to IC400 aren't mixed in with the lowest common denominator.

Agreed. I think levels would be a good idea. Something that considers number of qualifications, time performing in those qualifications, minimum number of missions (SAREXs would count) each year. There are people here that could come up with something reasonable, we'd just have to get National to buy off on it.

[wuzafuzz]

Limit of no more than one specialty badge to prevent our uniforms from looking busier than a face full of piercings.

One specialty badge total? That means that a member would not be able to wear observer wings and a ground team badge. Why? There's nothing wrong with two badges overall (other than the fact that the manual doesn't permit it). It looks fine. I wouldn't want it done the Army way with up to five, and I wear an Army uniform too. I just don't think that's appropriate for us.

I thought wings were called aeronautical badges not specialty badges?

[Major Carrales]

Limit of no more than one specialty badge to prevent our uniforms from looking busier than a face full of piercings.

One specialty badge total? That means that a member would not be able to wear observer wings and a ground team badge. Why? There's nothing wrong with two badges overall (other than the fact that the manual doesn't permit it). It looks fine. I wouldn't want it done the Army way with up to five, and I wear an Army uniform too. I just don't think that's appropriate for us.

I thought wings were called aeronautical badges not specialty badges?

This is an example of a post that illustrates the "issue" with most uniform threads here. 

Hawk just provided an excellent reply citing items of logic with a degree of grounding in CAP regs and the spirit of regs when compared to the uniform of another organization and the reply to it did not even mention any of this but instead clings to the minutia of jargon making the entire point somewhat moot.

By the way, aeronautical badges by definition are specialty badges.  But, such arguments of semantics do nothing but allow people to argue over what amounts to really nothing.

Sorry, I felt I had to make the comment.

[wuzafuzz]

Limit of no more than one specialty badge to prevent our uniforms from looking busier than a face full of piercings.

One specialty badge total? That means that a member would not be able to wear observer wings and a ground team badge. Why? There's nothing wrong with two badges overall (other than the fact that the manual doesn't permit it). It looks fine. I wouldn't want it done the Army way with up to five, and I wear an Army uniform too. I just don't think that's appropriate for us.

I thought wings were called aeronautical badges not specialty badges?

This is an example of a post that illustrates the "issue" with most uniform threads here. 

Hawk just provided an excellent reply citing items of logic with a degree of grounding in CAP regs and the spirit of regs when compared to the uniform of another organization and the reply to it did not even mention any of this but instead clings to the minutia of jargon making the entire point somewhat moot.

By the way, aeronautical badges by definition are specialty badges.  But, such arguments of semantics do nothing but allow people to argue over what amounts to really nothing.

Sorry, I felt I had to make the comment.

I asked a question about aeronautical badges for crying out loud.  It wasn't an argument; lighten up.   

You may also notice I was responding to the question Hawk200 posed about my earlier post.  Further, the point of the discussion was to provide awards for accomplishment without looking like "walking Christmas trees."  The spirit of my comments was intended to provide for adequate recognition while establishing reasonable limits to the excessive bling factor.

Disagree with my comments and conclusions if you must, but lets keep it civil and refrain from labeling one anothers'  thought process as an "issue."   

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