New 39-1 ICL today

[Walkman]

Some people still wear the wing patches on Blues? Yikes, now that one I have never seen before. Really makes one wonder if people know how to read regulations these days. 

It happened to me when I first joined. It was 4.5 years ago, but I was putting together my Blues for the first time and looked at the uniform photos that came in the new member binder. It showed a patch on the sleeve, so I put one on.

I think that's the main problem. If you're new and the unit hasn't mentored you properly about uniforms, it's super easy to look through either 39-1 or the photos in the binder and make an error.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Still no reason as to why the flight cap cannot be worn with the blue utility suit when in everything but fabric they are identical to the blue NOMEX suit...it's like you get the flight cap as a "reward" for being able to shell out big bucks for a NOMEX zoom bag.

Nor a purpose-designed headgear for the G/W, or authorisation for a pullover jumper for the G/W.

[Spartan]

The ICL is a good start, and I like that it reduces the previous ICL's for CAM 39-1 into one supplement.  Whoever put the blue beret on the demonstrator needs to be instructed on the proper wear of a military beret.  The current image is setting people up for failure.  Leaders who have not been to NBB or had to wear a beret in the real military will think this is how a beret should be worn.  It should be displayed being worn correctly or provide a written description in lieu of an image.

[Eclipse]

Define "correctly" in regards to the beret - just because one service wears it "thusly", does not define how another service should wear it.

[Extremepredjudice]

Besides don't they tell you how to wear your beret at NBB?

[Spaceman3750]

Besides don't they tell you how to wear your beret at NBB?

"Last year they showed it X way, but Y way looks kewler so I'm going to show you that way."

[Spartan]

Define "correctly" in regards to the beret - just because one service wears it "thusly", does not define how another service should wear it.

You raise a good point about the difference between how services wear the beret.  The St Albin's cross pin being squarely over the left eye would be a good start.  Both the AF and Army agree on the insignia and flash should be over the left eye.  There is an attempt at having the excess draped over the right side, however it appears that the beret has been pulled to the side of the head and is not even acorss the forehead.  The way it is displayed looks like no effort has been made in preparing or wearing the beret.

Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled that the beret is finally added to a formal publication, even if it is in an ICL.  I think the example provided for everyone to see should have a professional standard expressed, rather than plopping it on some unsuspecting senior member's head and taking a picture.

[Spartan]

Besides don't they tell you how to wear your beret at NBB?

"Last year they showed it X way, but Y way looks kewler so I'm going to show you that way."

All the more reason for a quality standard to be established.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Does the smurf hat still fall under commander decision? Or will we now see squadron elites rocking their berets to every BDU meeting?

[jeders]

Does the smurf hat still fall under commander decision? Or will we now see squadron elites rocking their berets to every BDU meeting?

While this ICL will certainly end a number of arguments about whether or not the beret is authorized outside NBB, I would think that the local commander would still have authority to say that everyone will wear the same hat for uniformity purposes.

[MIKE]

^ The key words here are may wear.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Does the smurf hat still fall under commander decision? Or will we now see squadron elites rocking their berets to every BDU meeting?

While this ICL will certainly end a number of arguments about whether or not the beret is authorized outside NBB, I would think that the local commander would still have authority to say that everyone will wear the same hat for uniformity purposes.

One would think so, but most of the arguments I heard were related to the "command authority" of the local/activity commander to control this matter.

[Spaceman3750]

^ The key words here are may wear.

But "may" gives explicit permission (the way I interpret it, it's the discretion of the member, not the commander) - can a local commander rescind that permission?

[NCRblues]

I spoke with NHQ this morning about the picture of the NBB.

I was informed "this is not the picture that will go into the new CAPR 39-1" (and yes I put an R in place of an M)

They basically needed a picture of one, grabbed the nearest blue beret (unshaped and unshaven) put a pin on it and put it on a random head. Boom, the picture you see.

National did say that commanders still have discretion over the wear of any cover at activities.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Wish they could put that into the ICL. I doubt they want every "backwoods" commander calling to confirm this.

[MIKE]

^ The key words here are may wear.

But "may" gives explicit permission (the way I interpret it, it's the discretion of the member, not the commander) - can a local commander rescind that permission?

May is quite different than shall, must or will.  As such, as a commander I would interpret that as you may not wear said beret or Ranger tab within the confines of this command. 

[NCRblues]

^ The key words here are may wear.

But "may" gives explicit permission (the way I interpret it, it's the discretion of the member, not the commander) - can a local commander rescind that permission?

May is quite different than shall, must or will.  As such, as a commander I would interpret that as you may not wear said beret or Ranger tab within the confines of this command. 

I'm not sure a local commander could outlaw the hawk tabs now... the beret yes, but the tabs are now like any other NCSA patch.

[Eclipse]

The regs are clear that a commander may prescribe and UOD for seniors, and anything issued for cadets.

Since the beret is not a standard item, it can be prohibited.

[Spaceman3750]

The regs are clear that a commander may prescribe and UOD for seniors, and anything issued for cadets.

Since the beret is not a standard item, it can be prohibited.

That's no different than saying "SM Bagodoughnuts, you are forbidden from wearing your GTL badge because we want to be uniform and not everyone has one."

I'm not a fan of the beret, but I'm less a fan of commanders disallowing things authorized in regulation.

[jeders]

The regs are clear that a commander may prescribe and UOD for seniors, and anything issued for cadets.

Since the beret is not a standard item, it can be prohibited.

That's no different than saying "SM Bagodoughnuts, you are forbidden from wearing your GTL badge because we want to be uniform and not everyone has one."

I'm not a fan of the beret, but I'm less a fan of commanders disallowing things authorized in regulation.

Not quite. The GTL badge is attached to the uniform, whereas the beret is completely separate. I would say it is more like saying, "All members will wear the flight cap with their blues to ensure uniformity." That's my take on it anyway, YMMV. This also proves my earlier statement about the decrease in beret related threads may not decline as much as I thought, as the argument shall now clearly move to whether or not commanders can limit its wear.